Team USA 2023 FIBA World Cup (Trae Watch)

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

when you know good and well that he's played with very few high level players. 

Siakam would be the best. Yup, the best so far has been DM.

 

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Dirk and Iverson. 

Yes sir.

 

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Iverson, in the year they reached the Finals, had DPOY Dikembe and 6th man of the year Aaron Mckie, along with

An ugly a$$ Tyrone Hill 

 

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

requests a trade in a few years.

no.please no.

[NBASupes]

59 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

What are you talking about? 

CP3 AND Harden teamed up one year, with Capela, to reach the Conference Finals.

You know NBA basketball Supes.  You're better than this.

 

It's crazy how some of you hold Trae to this insane level of winning, when you know good and well that he's played with very few high level players.  Everyone else gets to play with All-Stars and Hall of Famers.  But Trae has to reach that level playing alongside non All-Stars and kids who are still developing.

In the past 40+ years of the game, your high level teams have always had multiple All-Stars or multiple guys who play at All-Star/All-NBA level. 

The only players who really did it by themselves as a guy who didn't have current All-Stars around him, was Dirk and Iverson.  And even Dirk had high quality vets like Jason Terry and former all-stars like Jason Kidd and Shawn Marion around him. 

Iverson, in the year they reached the Finals, had DPOY Dikembe and 6th man of the year Aaron Mckie, along with a Hall of Fame coach in Larry Brown.

But Trae?  He has to get it done with Nate instructing the team to take midrange jumpers, and non All-Star teammates like Capela, Bogi, and freakin De'Andre Hunter?

 

It's hilarious.  But keep doing what you do.  And I'll keep supporting my superstar until he finally gets adquate help, or he says "F--- this" and requests a trade in a few years.

CP3 was there with Clint for two years while Harden had him for 6 years and 7 but the 7th, he barely played as a rookie. More than just one year because you are in full defense mode of Trae. 

I am not better than this. I can go high and I can go low. I am not the Obamas. 

I just don't believe he's anywhere near as good as you or Trae stans think he is. He's an offensive juggernaut. Our best offensive talent in Hawks history but he's also flawed. He's also a poor decision maker. He doesn't run an offense and yes, I will cut him slack with LP and Nate being just decent and a bad coach but Nate coached others who have ran an offense before whereas Trae didn't and LP wanted him to run it his way and he refused. 

Trae is terrible at time management. Trae has poor shot selection. I used to argue that Trae made bigs better and made wings worse on offense. Now I am thinking he might make everyone worse because he kills ball and player movement, has no off ball skills, pounds the air out of the rock, and of course instead of seeing this as an issue, you flip the script and blame others around him for it.

That blaming others ended up with us trading Kevin last year. I don't mind trading JC, that was a shit contract and he should have been a 6th man but he caught the blame bullets too. The national media puts the blame on Trae and I have to agree to a degree. 

You love knocking Dre but I like him a lot more than the guys on the Sixers outside of AI and Deke. Same for most of our guys. We got a lot of quality hoopers that fans around the league like and respect. 

You will do you. Blame others, praise Trae. Post dumb shit whenever it's in favor of Trae or to be in favor of Trae and you been doing that for years. It is what it is at this point but it gets annoying and it's delusional. Trae ain't this unreal superstar who only Trae stans can see how good he is. We all see how good he is but we unlike ya'll see the critical flaws. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trae is terrible at time management. Trae has poor shot selection. I used to argue that Trae made bigs better and made wings worse on offense. Now I am thinking he might make everyone worse

Yes and yes to the first two....and those are things we hope he gets better at with Quin.

the rest of this.................

[Spud2nique]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I am not better than this.

  I’m dead.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Yes and yes to the first two....and those are things we hope he gets better at with Quin.

the rest of this.................

I should add context. 

He clearly doesn't make everyone worse to a degree but he is what he should be. 

Does he have that impact that you get from other premium PGs or other premium teams.

JC literally became useless offensively because of the switch from Kevin to Murray. That's like Clint from CP3 to Westbrook because of spacing yet the Spurs had a backcourt of Murray and White and never had spacing issues. I've always said, Trae is an inside player who's just too small to dominate from there like Luka, Jokic, and Harden do. Things like this just put a bad taste in my mouth. How are we suppose to win with you already being a terrible defender when you can't make everyone better if anyone better unless it fits you. 

We are literally going to have to take two steps back on defense to add our new Kevin(Bey) to get our offense back to top 1-3 range. Our defense with the starters will be ass again. This is what we have to do with Trae. On top of that, the players you covet around him are extremely expensive. You can't add a bunch of players who are top 50 and think we can afford them. It's not reality. We need the Max cat to be the max cat. 

Bibby was out of his prime in Atlanta making everyone better. Asking Al, where do you like your shots. We need that level of PG back. I don't want a baby Harden. You see how fast original Harden value is falling as he ages and we got baby Harden. When it comes to Trae, we need him to play at a supermax level. He's no longer on his rookie deal, he has to deliver. 

[thecampster]

34 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

CP3 was there with Clint for two years while Harden had him for 6 years and 7 but the 7th, he barely played as a rookie. More than just one year because you are in full defense mode of Trae. 

I am not better than this. I can go high and I can go low. I am not the Obamas. 

I just don't believe he's anywhere near as good as you or Trae stans think he is. He's an offensive juggernaut. Our best offensive talent in Hawks history but he's also flawed. He's also a poor decision maker. He doesn't run an offense and yes, I will cut him slack with LP and Nate being just decent and a bad coach but Nate coached others who have ran an offense before whereas Trae didn't and LP wanted him to run it his way and he refused. 

Trae is terrible at time management. Trae has poor shot selection. I used to argue that Trae made bigs better and made wings worse on offense. Now I am thinking he might make everyone worse because he kills ball and player movement, has no off ball skills, pounds the air out of the rock, and of course instead of seeing this as an issue, you flip the script and blame others around him for it.

That blaming others ended up with us trading Kevin last year. I don't mind trading JC, that was a shit contract and he should have been a 6th man but he caught the blame bullets too. The national media puts the blame on Trae and I have to agree to a degree. 

You love knocking Dre but I like him a lot more than the guys on the Sixers outside of AI and Deke. Same for most of our guys. We got a lot of quality hoopers that fans around the league like and respect. 

You will do you. Blame others, praise Trae. Post dumb shit whenever it's in favor of Trae or to be in favor of Trae and you been doing that for years. It is what it is at this point but it gets annoying and it's delusional. Trae ain't this unreal superstar who only Trae stans can see how good he is. We all see how good he is but we unlike ya'll see the critical flaws. 

1) What do you hope to accomplish by "keeping it real" on Trae

2) Do you realize other players on that 17-18 Rockets team included Eric Gordon, Joe Johnson, Ryan Anderson, PJ Tucker and Nene Hilario???  That was a stacked team.  Attributing anything specifically to Capela is a far stretch on that team. 

Trae is not perfect, shot poorly this past year and has room for improvement but I'm not prepared to throw the baby out with the bath water here.

If the Hawks traded Trae tomorrow for a similarly talented player and turned the point guard duties over to Murray, I'd be disappointed but I wouldn't go crazy either.  I'm a fan but I'm not so vested as to cause pre-emptive drama.  Food digests better when the stomach isn't bent up in knots.

[kg01]

I dont understand what people think they're accomplishing by "keeping it real" on Trae.  Do they think they're seeing anything the rest of us aren't?  Or do they just not realize people don't wanna come around to whine and complain?

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

1) What do you hope to accomplish by "keeping it real" on Trae

2) Do you realize other players on that 17-18 Rockets team included Eric Gordon, Joe Johnson, Ryan Anderson, PJ Tucker and Nene Hilario???  That was a stacked team.  Attributing anything specifically to Capela is a far stretch on that team. 

Trae is not perfect, shot poorly this past year and has room for improvement but I'm not prepared to throw the baby out with the bath water here.

If the Hawks traded Trae tomorrow for a similarly talented player and turned the point guard duties over to Murray, I'd be disappointed but I wouldn't go crazy either.  I'm a fan but I'm not so vested as to cause pre-emptive drama.  Food digests better when the stomach isn't bent up in knots.

1. We want him to be the best verison of himself obviously and be the franchise player we are paying him to be. 

2. Iso was way out of his prime back then. Our squad is better than that squad if you just take away Harden and Trae. That last statement doesn't make sense. It's like you aren't listening to what I am saying 

3. Saying he's not perfect is like me saying Josh Smith is not perfect. He's not playing to the level of expectations of what a supermax or even max guy is 

4. I know you will be. Most Trae stans will be. I actually think he's more liked by his stans than anyone else in Atlanta history outside of Vick stans. 

I would prefer to keep Trae but I also would prefer he play up to his potential as a true PG. 

[thecampster]

42 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

2. Iso was way out of his prime back then. Our squad is better than that squad if you just take away Harden and Trae. That last statement doesn't make sense. It's like you aren't listening to what I am saying 

Okay, lets compare

DJM, Clint, Hunter, BB, OO, JJ, AJ

Paul, Clint, Gordon, Tucker, Gerald Green, Trevor Ariza, Nene, Anderson, Joe Johnson

 

Those are pretty good pieces man. I don't think you can say the rest of our squad was better than that.

[NBASupes]

12 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Okay, lets compare

DJM, Clint, Hunter, BB, OO, JJ, AJ

Paul, Clint, Gordon, Tucker, Gerald Green, Trevor Ariza, Nene, Anderson, Joe Johnson

 

Those are pretty good pieces man. I don't think you can say the rest of our squad was better than that.

Most of those guys bolded aren't even good. Just Gordon and Tucker. Ariza was already out of his prime then too whereas all of our guys are in their prime. 

In fact, that was the season I had season tickets to the Roxs. Come on man, I seen them live. Come on man. The ability to underrate Harden amazes me. I think the way outside fans underrate Harden in his prime and even worse than Trae with the national fans.

Edited July 4, 2023 by NBASupes

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Most of those guys bolded aren't even good. Just Gordon and Tucker. Ariza was already out of his prime then too whereas all of our guys are in their prime. 

The interesting thing about opinions is people have them and believe them to be true, but that doesn't make them true.

 

Last year the Hawks were 1-5 without Trae.  The previous year, 4-5.  That's 5-10 the last 2 seasons.  You can believe they're better than the Houston team without Harden, but the number don't bear that out.

The Rocket's record without Harden that year was 6-4.  1-5 vs 6-4.  I understand its a small sample size but nothing in those stats show them to be better than the 17-18 rockets.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, thecampster said:

The interesting thing about opinions is people have them and believe them to be true, but that doesn't make them true.

 

Last year the Hawks were 1-5 without Trae.  The previous year, 4-5.  That's 5-10 the last 2 seasons.  You can believe they're better than the Houston team without Harden, but the number don't bear that out.

The Rocket's record without Harden that year was 6-4.  1-5 vs 6-4.  I understand its a small sample size but nothing in those stats show them to be better than the 17-18 rockets.

Glad you mentioned it, small sample size. 

[Gray Mule]

"Small sample size."  But, more important questions, "Who was the opponent is each game?"

Were they playing one of the top teams?  One of the bottom teams?  Home or on the road?

No one is saying Trae ain't really, really good.  Neither are they saying he's so good he can't improve.

While you two argue, I agree with both of you!!  Take that!

[NBASupes]

27 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

"Small sample size."  But, more important questions, "Who was the opponent is each game?"

Were they playing one of the top teams?  One of the bottom teams?  Home or on the road?

No one is saying Trae ain't really, really good.  Neither are they saying he's so good he can't improve.

While you two argue, I agree with both of you!!  Take that!

Exactly! It really shouldn't be that hard. I feel Trae is fully capable of improving. It's all within him

[JayBirdHawk]

31 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Exactly! It really shouldn't be that hard. I feel Trae is fully capable of improving. It's all within him

Nobody has ever said Trae doesn't need to improve and should.....it's the weird stuff you add on like 'he makes everybody worse' where you lose credibility and your talking points gets lost.

[AHF]

On 7/4/2023 at 12:02 AM, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

LOL . . . Paul and Stockton played with All-Star/Hall of Fame big men who were great finishers.  Trae is playing with Clint Capela, who is totally reliant on Trae or grabbing his own misses to score the ball.  But it is what it is.  You roll with the team you're dealt with.

Haliburton was very good last year before the injury.  He's one of the best shooting PGs in recent memory that is also a high level facilitator.

 

But why stop at game #41 when evaluating Trae?  We know that traditionally Trae is a slow starter, and picks it up big time as the season progresses.  He's potentially going to be in a new system and may need a month to adjust, before he becomes locked in as always.

So let's do it for the entire year, and raise it to $200.

 

$200 BET that says Trae will be Sub .140 WS/48 and sub 115 offensive rating after Game 82 is done.

You say he will be UNDER . . . I say he'll be OVER

He has to have BOTH be under or OVER to win the bet.  If one is OVER and the other is UNDER, it's a push

 

Deal?

 

If so @AHF , ring it up.

Remember the rule for Squawk bets is that money isn't on the line.  You can feel free to contact someone offsite to arrange a monetary bet.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Remember the rule for Squawk bets is that money isn't on the line.  You can feel free to contact someone offsite to arrange a monetary bet.

 

He hasn't replied back, so we'll see where it stands.

I'll put my money on Trae any day of the week.

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

He hasn't replied back, so we'll see where it stands.

I'll put my money on Trae any day of the week.

I hear you.  Just saying if you want to bet money, do it off site.  If you want to do an avatar bet or something, we'll add it to the thread and track it here.  (Or do both.  Up to you.)

[macdaddy]

I saw Trae play not so great in the first 2 games of the Boston series.   I saw DJ take more shots than him.  I saw us lose two games with no one really stepping it up.   Then I saw Trae average 30+/10+ in the next 4 games and we won 2.  It wasn't enough obviously but the idea that the Hawks aren't best when Trae is the focal point is crazy to me.  

[benhillboy]

On 7/4/2023 at 12:02 AM, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

LOL . . . Paul and Stockton played with All-Star/Hall of Fame big men who were great finishers.  Trae is playing with Clint Capela, who is totally reliant on Trae or grabbing his own misses to score the ball.  But it is what it is.  You roll with the team you're dealt with.

Haliburton was very good last year before the injury.  He's one of the best shooting PGs in recent memory that is also a high level facilitator.

 

But why stop at game #41 when evaluating Trae?  We know that traditionally Trae is a slow starter, and picks it up big time as the season progresses.  He's potentially going to be in a new system and may need a month to adjust, before he becomes locked in as always.

So let's do it for the entire year, and raise it to $200.

 

$200 BET that says Trae will be Sub .140 WS/48 and sub 115 offensive rating after Game 82 is done.

You say he will be UNDER . . . I say he'll be OVER

He has to have BOTH be under or OVER to win the bet.  If one is OVER and the other is UNDER, it's a push

 

Deal?

 

If so @AHF , ring it up.

You know darn well WS/48 does an admirable job of being an individual metric.  Last year’s Pacers roster was flaming garbage.  Where are Shai’s (.225 last season) and Brunson’s (.175) All-NBA Bigs?  Hell where are their fringe AS guards or wings? (granted Jalen Williams is on his way).  Trae’s Win Share similarity score after two seasons was John Stockton and this was when he was spamming three point touch fouls and had major space to work with dudes like Len and Ded.

But yeah, we can go to the end of the season but still keep it at $100.  Baseball bets help pay my bills, NBA bets make my bills late lol.

Edited July 6, 2023 by benhillboy