2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[warcore]

17 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Murray does literally nothing better on the basketball court than BI. Better scorer Bi, Better defender BI, better playmaker BI. Bigger Bi.

The bolded is the only one I can agree with. Everything else is debatable. And I noticed you didn't mention anything about rebounding. 

And the bit about BI being a better defender really hurts your argument. 

[Mikey]

18 minutes ago, AHF said:

2023-24

Brandon Ingram - 20.3 ppg

Dejounte Murray - 22.5 ppg

DJM as a PG > BI > DJM as a SG

2023-24

Brandon Ingram - 5.7 apg

DJM - 6.1 apg (DJM also enjoys a better A:TO ratio)

 

 

Combine the scoring and playmaking:

2023-24

Brandon Ingram - 2.7 OWS, 1.4 OBPM

Dejounter Murray - 3.3 OWS, 2.3 OBPM

Bigger?  That is the first one that is obviously correct.  But it does beg the question of why DJM outrebounded BI this year when BI so much bigger.

 

They are as similar players as you could possibly hope for in a trade scenario.

I mean comparing stats for one season doesn't do much to me when they are in different sitautions and DJM stats get a bump for when his first option was out for a month plus. Not to mention more assists doesn't mean you are a better playmaker by any stretch. DJM can't even make a lob pass. His assists are the most simple assists in the game. 

[Mikey]

12 minutes ago, warcore said:

The bolded is the only one I can agree with. Everything else is debatable. And I noticed you didn't mention anything about rebounding. 

And the bit about BI being a better defender really hurts your argument. 

Dejounte is a horrible defender. You guys got to stop talking about his reputation as a defender from his lone SA year where he did well. He is only a good off ball defender. On ball he is awful and it doesn't matter what position he plays. Coby White just gave him 40 in their last game. DJM cannot guard a parked car

[KB21]

The only difference I see is that Ingram is essentially a bigger Murray.  The fit issues with Trae will continue because BI doesn't like to be a volume three point shooter.  He instead loves to play off the dribble and get to his middy.  Problem there with both he and Murray is they rarely ever attack the rim.  They settle for that mid range jumper.  Defensively, Ingram isn't a POA defender either.  You would hope his size would give him some advantage over Murray, but bottom line is he isn't an above average defender.  

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

I mean comparing stats for one season doesn't do much to me when they are in different sitautions and DJM stats get a bump for when his first option was out for a month plus. Not to mention more assists doesn't mean you are a better playmaker by any stretch. DJM can't even make a lob pass. His assists are the most simple assists in the game. 

Then if you going by career, they would choose him over Herb Jones and Murphy but they going by this year to the future where those guys are better and have much smaller salary demands. 

[NBASupes]

¹¹

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

Dejounte is a horrible defender. You guys got to stop talking about his reputation as a defender from his lone SA year where he did well. He is only a good off ball defender. On ball he is awful and it doesn't matter what position he plays. Coby White just gave him 40 in their last game. DJM cannot guard a parked car

Dejounte is a very good defender as a PG. He even showed that when Trae was out. 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The only difference I see is that Ingram is essentially a bigger Murray.  The fit issues with Trae will continue because BI doesn't like to be a volume three point shooter.  He instead loves to play off the dribble and get to his middy.  Problem there with both he and Murray is they rarely ever attack the rim.  They settle for that mid range jumper.  Defensively, Ingram isn't a POA defender either.  You would hope his size would give him some advantage over Murray, but bottom line is he isn't an above average defender.  

There is a pretty big difference defensively in terms of fit with Trae. BI is a way better defensive 2 or 3 than Murray but Murray is a better defender overall and he's a 1. 

Edited April 25 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

I mean comparing stats for one season doesn't do much to me when they are in different sitautions and DJM stats get a bump for when his first option was out for a month plus. 

BI has spent more time as the focal point on offense during his early years, so his overall stats might be better. However, we have seen a transition where that is no longer the case as will be the case here. Just saying.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

I mean comparing stats for one season doesn't do much to me when they are in different sitautions and DJM stats get a bump for when his first option was out for a month plus. Not to mention more assists doesn't mean you are a better playmaker by any stretch. DJM can't even make a lob pass. His assists are the most simple assists in the game. 

Who is the first option for NO?  Zion.  Not Ingram.  Zion has led the team in scoring per game every year he has played while Ingram has never led when Zion played.  Ingram has been getting stat boosts for years because Zion misses a ton of time.  Come on.  This is a terrible argument to try to use against DJM while ignoring the elephant in the room.

 

[AHF]

48 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The only difference I see is that Ingram is essentially a bigger Murray.  The fit issues with Trae will continue because BI doesn't like to be a volume three point shooter.  He instead loves to play off the dribble and get to his middy.  Problem there with both he and Murray is they rarely ever attack the rim.  They settle for that mid range jumper.  Defensively, Ingram isn't a POA defender either.  You would hope his size would give him some advantage over Murray, but bottom line is he isn't an above average defender.  

 

45 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

There is a pretty big difference defensively in terms of fit with Trae. BI is a way better defensive 2 or 3 than Murray but Murray is a better defender overall and he's a 1. 

I agree that Ingram raises some questions as far as fit offensively.  Defensively he isn't a particularly good defender but he obviously fits better than DJM due to size.  If you traded the two of them, Ingram would guard the weaker wing and Hunter would take the stronger wing.  That is much better than Trae + DJM.

Ingram isn't my ideal candidate to partner with Trae which means that when you combine that with his salary, UFA status, and his average of missing about 30 games a year it raises real questions about whether a DJM for Ingram trade would work out particularly well.  A lesser scorer but better defender / 3pt shooter might be a better match.  I would definitely rather have Jones or Murphy from NO.

[Mikey]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Then if you going by career, they would choose him over Herb Jones and Murphy but they going by this year to the future where those guys are better and have much smaller salary demands. 

and the hawks covet both of those guys over BI. Problem is they aren't available 

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

The only difference I see is that Ingram is essentially a bigger Murray.  The fit issues with Trae will continue because BI doesn't like to be a volume three point shooter.  He instead loves to play off the dribble and get to his middy.  Problem there with both he and Murray is they rarely ever attack the rim.  They settle for that mid range jumper.  Defensively, Ingram isn't a POA defender either.  You would hope his size would give him some advantage over Murray, but bottom line is he isn't an above average defender.  

BI applies a ton of rim pressure which this team does not have currently 

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, Mikey said:

and the hawks covet both of those guys over BI. Problem is they aren't available 

BI applies a ton of rim pressure which this team does not have currently 

BI shot about 15% of his shots near the rim and 15% of his shots between 3 and 10 feet out.  Murray took 17% of his shots near the rim and 19% between 3 and 10 feet.  While this isn't great for either of them, I'm not seeing the data to support the idea that Ingram is attacking the rim so much more than DJM.

Where Ingram really differs from DJM in terms of offensive pressure is that he takes 28% of his shots between 10 and 16 feet from the rim which is a lot more than DJM's 18%.  I don't think that is a great thing.  I'd rather he take more 3's than he does and attack the rim more.

[bird_dirt]

I want Jones, Murphy, and/or BI. Since BI is the most available, I’d be more than happy to get him.  I wanted him before he signed his latest contract because I knew he was it. 
He fits positionally better than DJM. We need wing depth, and we don’t need DJM and Trae back court. Kill two birds with one stone. 
Contract wise, you can’t compare the two. Yeah Murray’s is on a better deal for relatively similar stats, but 6’1” pgs aren’t as in demand as big wings are right now. 
Gimme. 

[h4wkfan]

Meh. I want nothing to do with Ingram. Any insider rumblings about Bridges being available? 
 

murray + oo to NO

ingram + Daniels + frp to BKN

bridges to ATL

 

figure out a backup center via fa, trade or draft. Bridges fits what we want to do much better than ingram. And he doesn’t miss 30% of every season. 

[AHF]

30 minutes ago, h4wkfan said:

Meh. I want nothing to do with Ingram. Any insider rumblings about Bridges being available? 
 

murray + oo to NO

ingram + Daniels + frp to BKN

bridges to ATL

 

figure out a backup center via fa, trade or draft. Bridges fits what we want to do much better than ingram. And he doesn’t miss 30% of every season. 

I would definitely pay a premium to get Bridges instead.  What specific premium I guess is up for debate but I agree he would be a much better fit.

[warcore]

3 hours ago, Mikey said:

Dejounte is a horrible defender. You guys got to stop talking about his reputation as a defender from his lone SA year where he did well. He is only a good off ball defender. On ball he is awful and it doesn't matter what position he plays. Coby White just gave him 40 in their last game. DJM cannot guard a parked car

Now you've got me intrigued. What's your description of BI's defense?

[marco102]

Give me Miles Bridges over all of New Orleans players.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, h4wkfan said:

Meh. I want nothing to do with Ingram. Any insider rumblings about Bridges being available? 
 

murray + oo to NO

ingram + Daniels + frp to BKN

bridges to ATL

 

figure out a backup center via fa, trade or draft. Bridges fits what we want to do much better than ingram. And he doesn’t miss 30% of every season. 

There is not a person here who wouldn't do this deal for Atlanta. 

Brooklyn would need more, Mikal value is just much higher than this. Probably have to add SAC 1st and one of our future unprotected 1st but this would at least get Brooklyn to consider it. 

[Vol4ever]

2 hours ago, h4wkfan said:

Meh. I want nothing to do with Ingram. Any insider rumblings about Bridges being available? 
 

murray + oo to NO

ingram + Daniels + frp to BKN

bridges to ATL

 

figure out a backup center via fa, trade or draft. Bridges fits what we want to do much better than ingram. And he doesn’t miss 30% of every season. 

They are definitely not trading Bridges.  

[kg01]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

There is not a person here who wouldn't do this deal for Atlanta. 

Brooklyn would need more, Mikal value is just much higher than this. Probably have to add SAC 1st and one of our future unprotected 1st but this would at least get Brooklyn to consider it. 

I can think of someone that may not do this trade if OO is going out.... 

3 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

They are definitely not trading Bridges.  

Yeah, right or wrong, they see him as their centerpiece.  This is fan fiction, imho.