John Collins Traded - Fare thee well!

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Before it's all said and done, you may see DHunter playing the 4... because JJ doesn't have the size to defend.

 

I don't believe we'll see Hunter regularly playing the 4 at any point in his Hawks career other than if pushed into there due to injuries on the team.  Bey, JJ and OO are going to get those minutes.

[thecampster]

I think I've figured out some of the Hawks motivation in the JC trade.  First posting the new relevant information from the new CBA.

 

1. First Apron Level Rules.

In addition to the Tax Apron transaction rules in the current CBA, the following transaction rules will apply at the First Apron Level. a. Signings – “Buyout” Players. Teams will be unable to sign a player during a Regular Season if he was waived during that Regular Season and had a prewaiver Salary for that year greater than the amount of that year’s Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Salary Exception. Posted on June 28, 2023 2 b. Trades i. Traded Player Exception (“TPE”) Multiplier  During the period from July 1, 2023 through the last day of the 2023- 24 Regular Season, teams will be unable to use a TPE in excess of 110% of the Salary of the Traded Player(s); and  Beginning on the day after the last day of the 2023-24 Regular Season, teams will be unable to use a TPE in excess of 100% of the Salary of the Traded Player(s). ii. Pre-Existing TPEs. Beginning on the day after the last day of the 2023- 24 Regular Season, teams will be unable to use a TPE generated in a prior year. (For purposes of this rule, a “year” is measured from end of Regular Season to end of Regular Season.)

2. Second Apron Level Rules.

The following transaction rules will apply at the Second Apron Level. a. Signings – Taxpayer MLE. Teams will be unable to use the Taxpayer MidLevel Salary Exception. b. Trades. Beginning on the day after the last day of the 2023-24 Regular Season, teams will be unable to: i. Aggregation. Use a TPE generated by aggregating the Salaries of multiple Traded Players. ii. Cash. Convey cash to another team in a trade. iii. Sign-and-Trade. Acquire a Player Contract using a TPE in respect of a player whose Contract was traded pursuant to a sign-and-trade.

 

So avoiding the tax isn't just about not paying the tax, its also about flexibility.  Trading JC away avoids all of the restrictions generated by the 1st level.

1.  If your team is above the 1st apron level:

a) can't sign players on the waiver wire in a salary dump. IE you'll have to pay the full salary if you claim him if above this level.  (See LA/Boston/Dallas/SA/Miami).

b) can't sign a player for vet min 3 mil out of a TPE of $25 million (again...only if above this level). This is for roster adds pre-playoffs (again, stops ring chasing).

c) can't sign a player for vet min out of a large TPE before the next season starts just to get a jump on him/her for signing next contract.  (see tank-a-thon post season early signings).

 

2. If your team is above the 2nd apron level:

a) Can't use the T MLE for a late season addition, roster stacking. This rule would seem to stack with rule 1b.

b) Can't stack TPE's to grab a player outside of your roster salary restrictions (see Boston, LA, Dallas). This is an extension of 1b, 2a.

 

This explains why certain players opted in.  Less ability to skirt rules to be signed by others. (Draymond). Teams less likely to risk on older players because there is less opportunity to dump them before the trade deadline if things don't work out.

This explains dumping JC.  This wasn't to avoid the tax, but to avoid the restrictions on mid-season trading imposed at apron 1.  If $5mil under apron, team waives Draymond.  You could sign him vet minimum, other team on the hook for the rest for tax / cap calculation.  $5 over apron, you have to pay his full remaining salary to acquire him (if I'm reading that right).  Keeping JC isn't just a financial decision but a flexibility decision on championship roster building. This looks designed to stop player collusion mid season and give greater parity among playoff teams chasing waived players.

[NekiEcko]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

I think I've figured out some of the Hawks motivation in the JC trade.  First posting the new relevant information from the new CBA.

 

1. First Apron Level Rules.

In addition to the Tax Apron transaction rules in the current CBA, the following transaction rules will apply at the First Apron Level. a. Signings – “Buyout” Players. Teams will be unable to sign a player during a Regular Season if he was waived during that Regular Season and had a prewaiver Salary for that year greater than the amount of that year’s Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Salary Exception. Posted on June 28, 2023 2 b. Trades i. Traded Player Exception (“TPE”) Multiplier  During the period from July 1, 2023 through the last day of the 2023- 24 Regular Season, teams will be unable to use a TPE in excess of 110% of the Salary of the Traded Player(s); and  Beginning on the day after the last day of the 2023-24 Regular Season, teams will be unable to use a TPE in excess of 100% of the Salary of the Traded Player(s). ii. Pre-Existing TPEs. Beginning on the day after the last day of the 2023- 24 Regular Season, teams will be unable to use a TPE generated in a prior year. (For purposes of this rule, a “year” is measured from end of Regular Season to end of Regular Season.)

2. Second Apron Level Rules.

The following transaction rules will apply at the Second Apron Level. a. Signings – Taxpayer MLE. Teams will be unable to use the Taxpayer MidLevel Salary Exception. b. Trades. Beginning on the day after the last day of the 2023-24 Regular Season, teams will be unable to: i. Aggregation. Use a TPE generated by aggregating the Salaries of multiple Traded Players. ii. Cash. Convey cash to another team in a trade. iii. Sign-and-Trade. Acquire a Player Contract using a TPE in respect of a player whose Contract was traded pursuant to a sign-and-trade.

 

So avoiding the tax isn't just about not paying the tax, its also about flexibility.  Trading JC away avoids all of the restrictions generated by the 1st level.

1.  If your team is above the 1st apron level:

a) can't sign players on the waiver wire in a salary dump. IE you'll have to pay the full salary if you claim him if above this level.  (See LA/Boston/Dallas/SA/Miami).

b) can't sign a player for vet min 3 mil out of a TPE of $25 million (again...only if above this level). This is for roster adds pre-playoffs (again, stops ring chasing).

c) can't sign a player for vet min out of a large TPE before the next season starts just to get a jump on him/her for signing next contract.  (see tank-a-thon post season early signings).

 

2. If your team is above the 2nd apron level:

a) Can't use the T MLE for a late season addition, roster stacking. This rule would seem to stack with rule 1b.

b) Can't stack TPE's to grab a player outside of your roster salary restrictions (see Boston, LA, Dallas). This is an extension of 1b, 2a.

 

This explains why certain players opted in.  Less ability to skirt rules to be signed by others. (Draymond). Teams less likely to risk on older players because there is less opportunity to dump them before the trade deadline if things don't work out.

This explains dumping JC.  This wasn't to avoid the tax, but to avoid the restrictions on mid-season trading imposed at apron 1.  If $5mil under apron, team waives Draymond.  You could sign him vet minimum, other team on the hook for the rest for tax / cap calculation.  $5 over apron, you have to pay his full remaining salary to acquire him (if I'm reading that right).  Keeping JC isn't just a financial decision but a flexibility decision on championship roster building. This looks designed to stop player collusion mid season and give greater parity among playoff teams chasing waived players.

Yeah, I can understand that now, sometimes you have to make the toughest choices to get what you want.  John was a good player that left it on the court each and every game, part of me would love for him to stay as a Hawk for a long time but you need flexibility in this NBA world now.  

Like I say, NBA is going to down to two schools of building teams.  The Phoenix way and the Denver way.  I dont know which path they will choose but Denver way is much more accessible than Phoenix way.

[benhillboy]

John will be soon forgotten by many.  But this moment will live on and long:

 

We’ll never see another 7 footer get posterized while in a headlock.  Pissed on his whole lineage.

Edited July 2, 2023 by benhillboy

[NBASupes]

20 hours ago, NekiEcko said:

Yeah, I can understand that now, sometimes you have to make the toughest choices to get what you want.  John was a good player that left it on the court each and every game, part of me would love for him to stay as a Hawk for a long time but you need flexibility in this NBA world now.  

Like I say, NBA is going to down to two schools of building teams.  The Phoenix way and the Denver way.  I dont know which path they will choose but Denver way is much more accessible than Phoenix way.

The Hawks gonna go the Hawks route. 

[Spud2nique]

24 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

The Hawks gonna go the Hawks route. 

What’s Ressler’s son’s name again that lil.. ughhh. Ressler’s in starting to get on my ish list and I don’t mean the Wake Forest product. 

I don’t wanna end up hating Jaime! 

[Final_quest]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

What’s Ressler’s son’s name again that lil.. ughhh. Ressler’s in starting to get on my ish list and I don’t mean the Wake Forest product. 

I don’t wanna end up hating Jaime! 

Nick Ressler.  How I know I'm an optimist part 2.  After hearing that Nick is pushing dad to spend money, I hope his involvement turns in our favor.  Kind of like how Francis got PeeWee's bike.  Only Nick ends up with Embiid or Siakim.

[warcore]

3 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

What’s Ressler’s son’s name again

Slick Nick at a picnic thinking about Gradey's d*ck 

[Spud2nique]

27 minutes ago, warcore said:

Slick Nick at a picnic thinking about Gradey's d*ck 

  

[Gray Mule]

43 minutes ago, warcore said:

Slick Nick at a picnic thinking about Gradey's d*ck 

Shows where your mind is.

[JayBirdHawk]

First sighting in Jazz colors:

 

 

[Hawkish]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

First sighting in Jazz colors:

 

 

Weird

[HawksNWaffles]

18 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

First sighting in Jazz colors:

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

Hawks announce John Collins trade to Utah

The Atlanta Hawks have acquired forward Rudy Gay and a conditional 2026 second-round pick from the Utah Jazz in exchange for forward John Collins, it was announced today. The transaction creates a $25.3 million trade exception for Atlanta, currently the largest in the NBA. The exception can be used to acquire a player(s) in subsequent trades and will expire in a year. The 2026 conditional second round pick will be sent from Memphis to the Hawks if between 31 and 42.

 

– via Atlanta Hawks @ NBA.com

 

 

THANKS FOR THE MEMORIES!!!

[bird_dirt]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

Hawks announce John Collins trade to Utah

The Atlanta Hawks have acquired forward Rudy Gay and a conditional 2026 second-round pick from the Utah Jazz in exchange for forward John Collins, it was announced today. The transaction creates a $25.3 million trade exception for Atlanta, currently the largest in the NBA. The exception can be used to acquire a player(s) in subsequent trades and will expire in a year. The 2026 conditional second round pick will be sent from Memphis to the Hawks if between 31 and 42.

 

– via Atlanta Hawks @ NBA.com

I love that they got Joel’s elbow up in there. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, bird_dirt said:

I love that they got Joel’s elbow up in there. 

Had to 

[kg01]

It's been a lo-ong day .. withoutchu, m' friend ...

And I'll tell you all about it when I see you again ...

Yall didn't know I could hit the hi notes tho?

[JayBirdHawk]

We're Waiting:

“Being able to create financial flexibility moving forward was a major priority for us. The added flexibility will give us greater optionality as we look at opportunities to improve our team,” said Hawks General Manager Landry Fields.

[Watchman]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We're Waiting:

“Being able to create financial flexibility moving forward was a major priority for us. The added flexibility will give us greater optionality as we look at opportunities to improve our team,” said Hawks General Manager Landry Fields.

It might enable us to acquire an expensive player without spending as much, but it might handicap us with respect to future "optionality" (i.e. salary cap) Amiright?

Edited July 8, 2023 by Watchman

[JayBirdHawk]