Official Game Thread: Hawks at Cavaliers -- IST Game #4

[AHF]

30 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

AJ’s fall is mind boggling.   Regressing defensively isn’t a surprise but many of his looks couldn’t be more wide open: he was automatic on those last season.  Sh%t is depressing I had high hopes after a 47/ 39/ 89 rookie season how could you not?!

This is where I'm at.  If he was lost for where he should be on both sides of the ball because Quin is demanding more then that is fine.  But nail your wide open shots while you figure it out.  The shot being broken is hard to accept.  30.3% FG% down from 46.5% FG% is just brutal for someone with his elite shooting pedigree.  The shot should largely be a constant regardless of how good or bad he is playing on defense, etc.  

[Final_quest]

45 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Untrue we already saw him play raw, he’s got all the skills, something is going on with his shot I think Burd said Korver could have tweaked it which makes sense a bit more.

I think someone else got this right that Nate let them play playground ball which AJ was comfortable with.  He can play.  He just has to adjust to a new system and his place in it.  

[macdaddy]

The thing about AJ though is if he doesn't prove to be a Korver, or even a Duncan Robinson level shooter at the NBA level then he's basically Bey with less size.  There's dozens of guys like that around the league.  If he has value in a trade now, which i'm not sure he does, i'm fine with shipping him out if we are bringing back vet talent.  I'm not looking to start contending when Trae is 28.   We need to move.  

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, benhillboy said:

Hawks are 3rd in offensive rating at almost 120 per.  Unless that elite offensive Big is 7 feet and a great anchor/ communicator I don’t value any extra offensive firepower.  There are only 3 in the league anyway in Chet, Embiid, and Joker, neither going anywhere soon obviously.  Any above-average team will still outscore the Hawks when Trae is playing 36 minutes no problem.

We don't need an elite offensive anchor. We need an elite scorer. That's what we lacking. We still can't score easy baskets. It's a killer for us and that player has to be a big. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

I think we have to look and admit that in addition to terrible roster construction there is just no chemistry on this team.  No one has stepped up in JC's absence.  A shake up is needed for a variety of reasons.  

JJ did but. But most others stayed the same or regressed. Trae, Murray, Clint, and Hunter been up and down. 

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

The thing about AJ though is if he doesn't prove to be a Korver, or even a Duncan Robinson level shooter at the NBA level then he's basically Bey with less size.  There's dozens of guys like that around the league.  If he has value in a trade now, which i'm not sure he does, i'm fine with shipping him out if we are bringing back vet talent.  I'm not looking to start contending when Trae is 28.   We need to move.  

AJ has to be a plus scorer.  That is his core skill.  His track record says he should be.  

45% 3pt% Duke

39% 3pt% NBA rookie

I'm not giving up on him but he is clearly off the tracks in a bad way right now.

[macdaddy]

44 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

We don't need an elite offensive anchor. We need an elite scorer. That's what we lacking. We still can't score easy baskets. It's a killer for us and that player has to be a big. 

100%.  Front court has been a problem for a while.  We're making the mistake that the Wall/Beal wiz and the the Dame/Cj blazers did.  Cheap out on the frontcourt and expect the backcourt to be all the offense.  That only works in the regular season and only against weaker teams.  

Our ECF year wasn't a fluke.  JC and Gallo had big offensive years for us.  

[terrell]

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

I like how we totally bypass OO in this discussion. 

 

Another wasted pick by Schlenk it seems at #6 overall. 

But lets give out another early extension of course.. smh

[terrell]

4 hours ago, Jody23 said:

It looks to me like he's playing with next to no confidence.  Now that he's getting an opportunity to play, he's got to dial in and play with some passion.  I never agreed with Quin totally taking him out of the rotation, but A.J. can't allow that to keep him in a funk.

I guess Quin saw what were seeing now.. He stinks

But dont worrt, we have this years 1st rdr Bumkin to look forward too... Geez

Edited November 29, 2023 by terrell

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

He can play.

 

[Jody23]

37 minutes ago, terrell said:

I guess Quin saw what were seeing now.. He stinks

But dont worrt, we have this years 1st rdr Bumkin to look forward too... Geez

Eh, I think it's more so his confidence is shook.  Quin likes a shorter rotation and he also likes to play veterans.  He was going to start Bey over JJ before JJ clearly showed why that would be a wrong decision.  And, even then Quin tried to sell this "oh the starter will depend on matchups" bunk before he realized JJ was better player.  To be fair, Griffin has some work to do defensively, but most 19 year olds do.  With the way the veteran guards on the team play defense, it's unserious for Quin to not play him because of that.  Quin is a good coach, but I didn't and don't agree with his approach on AJ.  That said, now that he has an opportunity, it's up to AJ to get going.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

Another wasted pick by Schlenk it seems at #6 overall. 

But lets give out another early extension of course.. smh

 

This year has been a disappointment with him showing mild regression instead of a big step forward but let's not get this twisted.

OO is:

#1 in his draft class in WS/48

#5 in his draft class in total WS

#8 in his draft class in BPM

#8 in his draft class in VORP

#17 in his draft class in points scored

#5 in his draft class in total rebounds

#1 in his draft class in blocks

 

So he isn't a star by any means but he also doesn't stand out as a bad pick in this draft.  The only measure by which he appears to be a terrible pick is comparing him with Haliburton and 5 other GMs made the mistake of passing on him as well so it isn't like he was the clear pick and we passed.

 

(I've been skeptical of Kobe so hoping he exceeds my expectations down the line but I have zero expectations of him contributing this year.)

[StonedDogs]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

I guess Quin saw what were seeing now.. He stinks

But dont worrt, we have this years 1st rdr Bumkin to look forward too... Geez

Lol my friend I will never forget this night when Landy Fields thought he drafted the second coming of Kobe Bean Bryant. Our GM and front office is so trash I hate admit it. I am glad Trae threes are falling though 

 

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, StonedDogs said:

Lol my friend I will never forget this night when Landy Fields thought he drafted the second coming of Kobe Bean Bryant. Our GM and front office is so trash I hate admit it. I am glad Trae threes are falling though 

 

I was not a fan of the pick but this is waayyyyyyyy too early to be making judgments on it.  Bufkin wasn't ready his freshman year in college and came on his second season.  No surprise he wasn't ready to contribute immediately here.  Frankly, I don't think that is why you take someone who so closely mirrors DM in so many ways.  You take him as a long-term investment.  Many, many young players need time to be ready to contribute and certainly to develop into their best versions as players.

[Hawkmoor]

I proposed this trade in another thread:

Maybe they can get OKC to be ignorant and do this.  The numbers add up on NBA TRADE MACHINE.  Its actually not a bad trade if they feel Bufkin has potential:

Hawks get:

Isaiah Joe

Kenrich Williams

OKC get:

Saddiq Bey

AJ Griffin

Kobe Bufkin

[terrell]

5 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

True. Sadly all true, if we don’t start performing it might not even been player but rather Landry getting the  

I mean, he built it. I was all in on the DJ trade when it happened and thought it was great and all but he’s a lot of pizzazz without the ultimate dagger result but it’s not on him alone..DJ IS PLAYING SMALLER THAN HIS SIZE. Remember when he was on the Spurs? He was a menace to us and everyone and seems to play much bigger.

OO needs to start to see if he can produce, again he looks like he’s 6’8” out there and just going up against 7 footers it’s nuts  

 

If I’m Landry and want to save my job I make a play now.. I mean, as a fan, I don’t even know what the heck to root for at this point.

It’s a merry go round with our organization.

1. Get a good GM.

2. Be crappy or tank

3. Get the players

Rinse and repeat  

Pardon my French but it’s {fertilizer} and no, no mod {} this I was mature enough to do it myself..  

 

Sorry for the rant and it’s early but we look weird.

Spurs fleeced us lets be honest. Murray is a good player, but he isnt worth all of that.. Especially on this team paired with Trae..

[AHF]

34 minutes ago, terrell said:

Spurs fleeced us lets be honest. Murray is a good player, but he isnt worth all of that.. Especially on this team paired with Trae..

The good news from my perspective is that he did sign a team friendly extension (compare it against things like FVV's contract) which takes the risk of him walking away leaving us empty-handed off the table.  That was a real risk with him being an UFA.

[terrell]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

 

This year has been a disappointment with him showing mild regression instead of a big step forward but let's not get this twisted.

OO is:

#1 in his draft class in WS/48

#5 in his draft class in total WS

#8 in his draft class in BPM

#8 in his draft class in VORP

#17 in his draft class in points scored

#5 in his draft class in total rebounds

#1 in his draft class in blocks

 

So he isn't a star by any means but he also doesn't stand out as a bad pick in this draft.  The only measure by which he appears to be a terrible pick is comparing him with Haliburton and 5 other GMs made the mistake of passing on him as well so it isn't like he was the clear pick and we passed.

 

(I've been skeptical of Kobe so hoping he exceeds my expectations down the line but I have zero expectations of him contributing this year.)

Considering alot of Hawks fans wanted Killian Hayes or Deni, I guess so........... lol

My guy was Maxey that year..But with the pick we gave up for Capela.. 

OO wasnt even mentioned much at #6 around here If I recall correctly..

It was Obi, Deni, Haliburton etc..

 

 

 

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, benhillboy said:

AJ’s fall is mind boggling.   Regressing defensively isn’t a surprise but many of his looks couldn’t be more wide open: he was automatic on those last season.  Sh%t is depressing I had high hopes after a 47/ 39/ 89 rookie season how could you not?!

He could be Grady d*ck?!

[Diesel]

57 minutes ago, terrell said:

Spurs fleeced us lets be honest. Murray is a good player, but he isnt worth all of that.. Especially on this team paired with Trae..

I don't see it. 

Spurs did not fleece us.

We got an allstar player not even in his prime for 3 first rounders and a pick swap. 

1 of those picks will be 2 2nd rounders before the Spurs ever get it.   I don't think you can get an allsar with less compensation.