Official Game Thread: Pistons at Hawks

[Diesel]

14 hours ago, terrell said:

We are desperate for wins, so I won’t discriminate.

But has the season been going so badly, that letting the atrocious Pistons hang around counts as a quality win? I'll take it, but damn...

Oh, so now it's not  awin.. but it's a "Quality" Win.

Tell me about those Quality Losses some times. 

[Personal shots deleted]

 

[JeffS17]

12 minutes ago, Diesel said:

 

It's not really that dumb.  Trae is a great scorer... I wouldn't argue that he isn't.  But when refs start swallowing their whistles late in the game, he has a really hard time self-creating.  We see it over and over man... he jacks up a lot of shots that might as well count as turnovers late in the game.  If he isn't getting to the line in crunch time, we usually struggle to close out games.  This one wasn't really different in that regard, just the Pistons are one of the worst teams in NBA history.

It's not even a knock on Trae so there's no reason to get defensive about it, he's just small and requires a ton of space to get a clean look off.  

[JeffS17]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Oh, so now it's not  awin.. but it's a "Quality" Win.

Tell me about those Quality Losses some times. 

You ever notice that you beat up on the Hawks on EVERY loss...

And you beat up on the Hawks or .. "Just take it" when we win...

You're a fan of the Hawks like kids like spankings.

 

Terrell generally has feedback on the game based on how we played, not based on if we win or lose.  IMO he's not being overly critical tonight lol

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

It's not really that dumb.  Trae is a great scorer... I wouldn't argue that he isn't.  But when refs start swallowing their whistles late in the game, he has a really hard time self-creating.  We see it over and over man... he jacks up a lot of shots that might as well count as turnovers late in the game.  If he isn't getting to the line in crunch time, we usually struggle to close out games.  This one wasn't really different in that regard, just the Pistons are one of the worst teams in NBA history.

It's not even a knock on Trae so there's no reason to get defensive about it, he's just small and requires a ton of space to get a clean look off.  

If Trae were only a scorer, you may have some semblance of a point... but Trae is a distributor also.   At the highest level might I add.  He creates.  He creates for his team and he creates for himself as well.  As far as the refs swallowing their whistles...

He still gets his share of calls. 

 

[Sothron]

This was uglier than it should have been but dear God will I take it. No such thing as an ugly win as my father would say.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

 

Let me go ahead and try to anticipate and to some degree steelman the response here;

1 - Trae is a volume scorer but not efficient enough to be your -#1 if you want a ring.  Cue comparisons to AI and Westbrook.  (There is no real comparison to those two but if you ignore the specific comparison there is some “there there” in the idea that he doesn’t consistently maintain the scoring efficiency of a 1 on a championship team).

2 - While Trae can excel during the regular season, his scoring efficiency crashes against the defensive pressure he faces in the playoffs.  This is meaningfully linked to the difficulty of shots he must take to get the points in the playoffs and largely due to his size.

[JayBirdHawk]

6 hours ago, bleachkit said:

How long until JJ is back? Id like to see Mo get some playing time as well, if he has fully recovered. 

Last week Steve Holman and Steve Koonin on different radio interviews said 2 weeks.

We were supposed to get a Mo update around Dec 10th - nothing.

[NBASupes]

8 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Trae had a nice game but this team needs a #1 scoring option.  It cant be Trae, hes too small… he had a very very efficient game if you exclude some of those wild ass shots he took.  Some of them are his fault but some are the fault of the offense stagnating— we badly need a front court player that can self-create.  Maybe that will eventually be JJ

That won't be JJ. I keep saying this and been dying on this horse but we need a #1 option that's a true center. Otherwise, this Trae experiment will l have peaked when he was under a rookie contract 

[NBASupes]

 

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

Let me go ahead and try to anticipate and to some degree steelman the response here;

1 - Trae is a volume scorer but not efficient enough to be your -#1 if you want a ring.  Cue comparisons to AI and Westbrook.  (There is no real comparison to those two but if you ignore the specific comparison there is some “there there” in the idea that he doesn’t consistently maintain the scoring efficiency of a 1 on a championship team).

2 - While Trae can excel during the regular season, his scoring efficiency crashes against the defensive pressure he faces in the playoffs.  This is meaningfully linked to the difficulty of shots he must take to get the points in the playoffs and largely due to his size.

You ever notice that the Bulls only changed MJ's role once in his career.  It was when Doug Collins was coaching and DC decided he wanted to try Jordan as a PG.   Jordan did very good on offense.  Damn near triple double every time out.   But he was getting carved up on defense.   I remember the Bulls did a West coast trip.  Blaylock, Payton, and Stockton beat his defense down.  Plus, he was more tired trying to defend those guards and didn't have much left in the end... and this was young Jordan.  They scrapped that plan... and when Jackson came in, Jordan played one way and I don't think they had any meaningful trades.  

The thing is that even though he endured the Jordan Rules, the Bulls never let that change the things that MJ were doing. 

[Gray Mule]

How bad did the Pistons play?

They tried 27 free throws - - They made 19.  This means they left 8 points on the line.  Usually, NBA teams don't win when they do this.  If they had made all their free throws, they would have broken this streak of theirs.

[NBASupes]

Yesterday just confirmed what I already knew. If Trae Young was on the Pistons, they would be fighting for the play-in game. It also proved that Cade is exactly what we need for Trae if we ever moved him. Murray/Cade backcourt would be substantially better as Cade is a 2 and Murray is a 1 and their games fit each other. 

[NBASupes]

I think both teams substantially improve if Atlanta traded Trae for Cade. 

[kg01]

Ain't nobody trading Trae for Fade Cunningham.

Edited December 19, 2023 by kg01

[AHF]

15 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I think both teams substantially improve if Atlanta traded Trae for Cade. 

I would be beyond pissed if we traded Trae for Cade and his career .510% TS%.  His 7 assists against 4 TOs doesnt endear me either for that matter.

[Diesel]

16 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I think both teams substantially improve if Atlanta traded Trae for Cade. 

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Ain't nobody trading Trae for Fade Cunningham.

We should. It makes sense. It covers both teams' weaknesses. It doesn't fix our ability to score easy baskets but massively improves our defense and our offense will be top 5 with or without Trae via ORtg in the new scheme with our current personnel. 

Trae is just a superior fit with Ausar and Duren. 

Cade is just a superior fit with Murray and Dre. 

JJ fits this scheme well regardless of if the PG is Murray or Trae. 

[Diesel]

Just now, NBASupes said:

We should. It makes sense. It covers both teams' weaknesses. It doesn't fix our ability to score easy baskets but massively improves our defense and our offense will be top 5 with or without Trae via ORtg in the new scheme with our current personnel. 

Trae is just a superior fit with Ausar and Duren. 

Cade is just a superior fit with Murray and Dre. 

JJ fits this scheme well regardless of if the PG is Murray or Trae. 

I can't believe you are seriously trying to push this.  You want to trade a near All NBA Team player for a guy who is out of position and if he played his real position, he would be terrible.   We'd be twinning in Atlanta. 

No Thanks.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

We should. It makes sense. It covers both teams' weaknesses. It doesn't fix our ability to score easy baskets but massively improves our defense and our offense will be top 5 with or without Trae via ORtg in the new scheme with our current personnel. 

Trae is just a superior fit with Ausar and Duren. 

Cade is just a superior fit with Murray and Dre. 

JJ fits this scheme well regardless of if the PG is Murray or Trae. 

His 31% 3pt shot is not a good fit with what Quin wants to do.  He is just brutally inefficient at everything he does offensively and isn’t good enough on defense to compensate.  He had a great game last night but don’t miss the larger data on this kid.  It is going to be very difficult for any team that features him to succeed unless he transforms into a different player.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I would be beyond pissed if we traded Trae for Cade and his career .510% TS%.  His 7 assists against 4 TOs doesnt endear me either for that matter.

I am not sure why. He's not here to be a PG which is not his natural role. He's here to be an SG. Trae is a superior PG but I am not convinced Trae is a superior player. I think Cade will be on the same tier as Trae. Maybe better if used correctly. 

I'm not sure why you would use career TS%. He's literally in year 3. His TS% this year is .530. While Trae is clearly the better player today, I am not sure if that will remain that way if Cade is in the right setting.