Official Game Thread: Pistons at Hawks

[TheNorthCydeRises]

14 minutes ago, shakes said:

cool, now apply that same HIM logic to Trae being in year 6 with a team that is now 11-15 and going nowhere.     This should be interesting watching KG turn himself into a pretzel.

Save this quote.

Revisit this on MLK weekend.

[kg01]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

...

I never said Cade was him. I don't think he's him. I don't think any of these guys are him. 

I am HIM.  We all know it. 

52 minutes ago, shakes said:

OKC has really ugly colors and gear, might have to pass on that.  Or just get some Chet underoos so no one can see them, but I know I'm wearing them.

 

I think you meant "no lies detected" or at least you forgot to identify said lies.

The lie was you thinking I was gonna twist myself into a pretzel defending the hawks.

51 minutes ago, terrell said:

[You] that said it was a "great" win. []

Dang turr'l, tell us how you really feel about him. 

[JeffS17]

I don't think trading Trae for Cunningham makes us better.  Probably worse... at best, we'd be just as good through worse offense and better defense.  DJ and Cade have too similar offensive games (although DJ has significantly improved his 3 ball) and neither of them are great creators.  I do think Detroit could be a landing spot for Trae though as their franchise is in the gutter and I imagine their ownership would enjoy the idea of filling empty seats in that arena.  It would need to be through a three team deal though where we are routed an all-star level center or wing and Cade goes to a third team.  I don't see any of those scenarios as possible though because those types of players aren't really available.  I'm all for going through the thought exercises of moves we can make, regardless of the player being sent out.  This one isn't it though.

 

[terrell]

32 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Fade Losingham got numbers via our indifferent defense.  He literally dribbled to a short jumper and made it vs light pressure.  Whenever we decided to gently contest the shot or challenge his dribble, he turned it over.  EZPass on that guy. 

Yeah most guards have their career night against us...Cade going for 43 wasnt shocking at all.. I dont believe Ive heard his name this season before last night.. lol

Edited December 19, 2023 by terrell

[Chrimturn]

20 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If players don't fit around your star....move them, not him.  .......Or move the star plus stuff for a much bigger star. 

I’m of that mindset too.  They have pieces now.  Let’s get through December, get healthy, put 5 on the floor, and let’s go.

Matchups will determine, but I want to see CC, OO, JJ, DJM, TY.  Bey, DH, Bruno ready for the front.  Bogi ready for the back.  Mix them in as needed, move them around as needed, let’s play.   Stick with what’s working.  Still have others behind them to use as needed.  Already looks stronger than WM+GM being first out.

This team needs consistency imo. Too many lineup alterations (either injury related or experimental) for guys to feel settled in.  Players need to know their roles.  Too many people, too many times, too quick to fire.  They shoot themselves in the foot with the “Im’a get mine” mentality.  Only makes the subpar defense seem that much worse when they don’t cash in.

Get healthy, try to find a rhythm.  Plenty of time still to get a better feel of who to move.  

 

[Dnice]

10 minutes ago, terrell said:

Yeah most guards have their career night against us...Cade going for 43 wasnt shocking at all.. I dont believe Ive heard his name this season before last night.. lol

They really don't have much pride in defense. Who's going to cook for Houston?

[warcore]

51 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I don't think he's him. 

I'm so tired of hearing this phrase. It's worse than "heat culture"

[shakes]

My sources are telling me that players are telling their agents that they don't want to be traded to ATL because they don't want to give up getting the chance to play vs ATL's efense 2-4x per year.    

[warcore]

9 minutes ago, shakes said:

My sources are telling me that players are telling their agents that they don't want to be traded to ATL because they don't want to give up getting the chance to play vs ATL's efense 2-4x per year.    

 

[macdaddy]

36 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I don't think trading Trae for Cunningham makes us better.

I mean.  I understand folks not thinking Trae is a superstar we can build around but this statement seems way understated.  We'd be a LOT worse if that's the trade.  And a lot of folks think we suck already so welcome to the lottery i guess.

I don't know.  it's very strange to me that there's all this undervaluing of Trae right now while he's playing arguably some of his best ball.  And honestly you can see the improvement in the team even if we're losing.  We're missing talent.  Once/if we plug the holes this team will surprise people.

[Final_quest]

Trae was a magician again.  I went into this game thread thinking it must suck to be Hawks fan and not believe in Trae.  Got a lot of affirmation reading the thread.  

[macdaddy]

Just now, Final_quest said:

Trae was a magician again.  I went into this game thread thinking it must suck to be Hawks fan and not believe in Trae.  Got a lot of affirmation reading the thread.  

This is my thought too.  I remember the days of Dennis/Baze/Prince etc. all to well to want to go back to a team full of pretty good players. 

[AHF]

MODERATOR NOTE:  Those who are doing it knock off the personal shots.  Stop talking about other posters and talk about basketball.  This forum and site are not for that.  All doing it know better.

 

55 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I don't think trading Trae for Cunningham makes us better.  Probably worse... at best, we'd be just as good through worse offense and better defense.  DJ and Cade have too similar offensive games (although DJ has significantly improved his 3 ball) and neither of them are great creators.  I do think Detroit could be a landing spot for Trae though as their franchise is in the gutter and I imagine their ownership would enjoy the idea of filling empty seats in that arena.  It would need to be through a three team deal though where we are routed an all-star level center or wing and Cade goes to a third team.  I don't see any of those scenarios as possible though because those types of players aren't really available.  I'm all for going through the thought exercises of moves we can make, regardless of the player being sent out.  This one isn't it though.

 

We would be way worse with Cade.  Defense slightly improved but still bad since Cade isn't a great defender and our frontcourt still would have major issues.  With Cade and DM leading the way, the offense would tank.  You make this kind of trade only if you are actively looking to tank and we don't have our picks the next few years so absolutely not.

On trade value, Detroit has a vested interest in their #1 pick being successful.  

Let's quantify his success:

He ranks #55 in his class in career win shares.  

He ranks #50 in win shares per 48.

He ranks #21 in BPM.

He ranks #16 in VORP.

To put this in context, Markelle Fultz's metrics **** all over Cade Cunningham's at the same point in their career.  And Fultz was an epic bust as a #1.

 

Jalen Johnson was taken by us in the same draft, largely relegated to the bench for his first two seasons, and he is  dramatically better at #21 in WS, #14 in WS/48, #7 in BPM, and #9 in VORP.

 

Does anyone think there are a ton of teams out there clamoring to trade All-Star talent for a guy who has been a homeless man's Russell Westbrook?  The only teams that want Cade want to get him on a discounted price and have him be a reclamation project.  Fultz is again a decent comparison although his mental issues clearly impacted his value but even with those Cade has been worse career to date by several numbers.  Cunningham is a purely volume driven player who needs almost a full FGA for every point he scores.  (This year he takes 19 FGA to score 22 points which is a career best rate as compared to Trae who averages 20 FGA and 28 points).

[kg01]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

This is my thought too.  I remember the days of Dennis/Baze/Prince etc. all to well to want to go back to a team full of pretty good players. 

I also remember the last 30+ years during which we were begging for a player as talented as Trae.  Why people wanna actively go back to that is a mystery to me. 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, terrell said:

[You] said it was a "great" win barely beating a team on a 23 game losing streak.

I did say that.. because I actually watched how we played instead of looked for us to lose.

While missing a starter and a top scorer, we played very well.   We introduced new players.  We introduced New lineups...  We played with Tempo and purpose.. But I know.. you don't watch for that.. because you're watching to see if Trae messes up..  Must be a tough stretch for you.

 

[shakes]

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Save this quote.

Revisit this on MLK weekend.

why, what happens on MLK weekend?

[Mikey]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Because Murray can't get us anyone better for him. His value is basically what we traded to get him. Picks. We don't need a picks for player deal. We need a player that can be a top 25-50 player that fits. Right now, Murray and Trae don't fit. Both need to be PGs. 

Picks can be used for players no? I like to think he can be a part of a package similar to how Milwaukee used Jrue to land Dame.

[Jody23]

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, shakes said:

why, what happens on MLK weekend?

Hawks in 5th place in the East.

[Chrimturn]

That’s just Trae, right?  He can do some pretty incredible things.  And at the same time, he can do some things that make you shake your head and say “what the…?  why?!?”.  

Love him or hate him, this team is better with him than without him imo.  Yes he can tend to have the bad moments in critical parts of the game.  And that can only intensify all the heat that’s on him.  But he has time to mature.  And once he cleans that up…aye yo.