Official Game Thread: Pistons at Hawks

[macdaddy]

Good morning!  I was not expecting to drop in this morning and see the discussion of really needing to trade Trae Young.  4th straight 30/10 game.  Shot 47%, 11-12 from the line and registered a game high +16

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

His 31% 3pt shot is not a good fit with what Quin wants to do.  He is just brutally inefficient at everything he does offensively and isn’t good enough on defense to compensate.  He had a great game last night but don’t miss the larger data on this kid.  It is going to be very difficult for any team that features him to succeed unless he transforms into a different player.

You sound like you don't watch his game and just looking at stats. I watched Cade play all year. He can shoot especially if shots are open but you know how many shots are wide open on Detroit, not many. He can get his shot off too so this ain't JC we are talking about here. 

To me, this is obvious. If you can't see it, I don't know how I can help you. Especially if you are just looking at stats and not how he actually plays. 

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

Good morning!  I was not expecting to drop in this morning and see the discussion of really needing to trade Trae Young.  4th straight 30/10 game.  Shot 47%, 11-12 from the line and registered a game high +16

Because we don't fit and Trae is the only player we can trade that will get us the right fit and piece. 

[NBASupes]

I would love to trade Murray for someone like KAT

Or upgrade Hunter for someone like Mikal Bridges

But those guys aren't available so what could be available is this. 

[macdaddy]

If we trade Trae then we're tanking again for a star.  The dude can't do much more than he's doing right now.  Improve the frontcourt and bench and we're a top 4 east team.  

[kg01]

31 minutes ago, AHF said:

His 31% 3pt shot is not a good fit with what Quin wants to do.  He is just brutally inefficient at everything he does offensively and isn’t good enough on defense to compensate.  He had a great game last night but don’t miss the larger data on this kid.  It is going to be very difficult for any team that features him to succeed unless he transforms into a different player.

Guy had a good scoring game but whenever even the slightest hint of pressure hit him, he turned the ball over almost immediately.  Agree with supes that he's not meant to be the point guard tho.

[macdaddy]

 

 

[bird_dirt]

31 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I am not sure why. He's not here to be a PG which is not his natural role. He's here to be an SG. Trae is a superior PG but I am not convinced Trae is a superior player. I think Cade will be on the same tier as Trae. Maybe better if used correctly. 

I'm not sure why you would use career TS%. He's literally in year 3. His TS% this year is .530. While Trae is clearly the better player today, I am not sure if that will remain that way if Cade is in the right setting. 

I don’t want DJM to be our primary point. He’s not that good in that role. 
Trae is so far above both of those guys at pg we’d lose our advantage at that position. He’s literally the only player we have that is better than 90% of the rest of the league at that position.
You don’t trade away your position of strength at one position to get two above average positions. 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I am not sure why. He's not here to be a PG which is not his natural role. He's here to be an SG. Trae is a superior PG but I am not convinced Trae is a superior player. I think Cade will be on the same tier as Trae. Maybe better if used correctly. 

I'm not sure why you would use career TS%. He's literally in year 3. His TS% this year is .530. While Trae is clearly the better player today, I am not sure if that will remain that way if Cade is in the right setting. 

.530% TS% is absolute garbage.  You know that right?  Trae's rookie season was better than that.  Just look at these for comparison:

Rookie Trae .539% TS% vs Cade .504% TS% - Trae +.035%

Sophmore Trae .595% TS% vs Cade .492% TS%  - Trae +.103%

Year 3 Trae .589% TS% vs Cade .530% TS% - Trae +.059%

Trae is a dramatically better scorer and has been at the same stage of their career at every step.

FWIW - Trae is sitting at .587% TS% right now.

 

Cade is still a terrible shooter in year 3.  Here are his numbers by distance along with how this compares to league averages for shooting guards:

FG% on shots 3-10 feet from the basket: 36.8% - SHUT MY EYES THE HORROR WON'T STOP 

FG% on shots 10-15 feet from the basket: 51.3% - SOLID NEITHER GREAT NOR TERRIBLE

FG% on shots 16-3pt from the basket:  40.4% - IS SMOOVE YOUR MIDDY SHOOTING COACH?

FG% on 3pt shots:  32.5% - I THOUGHT TRAE'S 33.5% LAST YEAR WAS BRUTAL.  HOW IS THIS BOTH YOUR CAREER BEST AND WORSE THAN TRAE'S BIGGEST LET DOWN SEASON?

[kg01]

Gotta say, the highlight of the game was DET doing that thing where they bring in a bench guard to 'get physical' with Trae.  Then instantly complained about getting fouls called on them.  Heh, like what'd ypu expect to happen?

Ivey out there smacking him in the face then acting all innocent.  Cmon, man.

[JayBirdHawk]

19 minutes ago, AHF said:

.530% TS% is absolute garbage.  You know that right?  Trae's rookie season was better than that.  Just look at these for comparison:

Rookie Trae .539% TS% vs Cade .504% TS% - Trae +.035%

Sophmore Trae .595% TS% vs Cade .492% TS%  - Trae +.103%

Year 3 Trae .589% TS% vs Cade .530% TS% - Trae +.059%

Trae is a dramatically better scorer and has been at the same stage of their career at every step.

FWIW - Trae is sitting at .587% TS% right now.

 

Cade is still a terrible shooter in year 3.  Here are his numbers by distance along with how this compares to league averages for shooting guards:

FG% on shots 3-10 feet from the basket: 36.8% - SHUT MY EYES THE HORROR WON'T STOP 

FG% on shots 10-15 feet from the basket: 51.3% - SOLID NEITHER GREAT NOR TERRIBLE

FG% on shots 16-3pt from the basket:  40.4% - IS SMOOVE YOUR MIDDY SHOOTING COACH?

FG% on 3pt shots:  32.5% - I THOUGHT TRAE'S 33.5% LAST YEAR WAS BRUTAL.  HOW IS THIS BOTH YOUR CAREER BEST AND WORSE THAN TRAE'S BIGGEST LET DOWN SEASON?

Why you letting facts and stats get in the way of......... .....whatever that was?

Silly season is about to be upon us sooner than expected. 

[Atlantaholic]

Trae is looking closest to his second half 2021 form, it's a huge relief to see him play at this level again after a down year last year and an extremely rough start to his year. He is playing as a bonafide All Nba star and that's the hardest thing to find in this league. Defensive pieces, spot up shooters etc. We should be able to find those to plug alongside him, our failure up to this point notwithstanding.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I would love to trade Murray for someone like KAT

Or upgrade Hunter for someone like Mikal Bridges

But those guys aren't available so what could be available is this. 

So because of that, you want to trade... OUR BEST PLAYER... One of the best players in the league.. for a guy whose only advantage over him is that he's taller?  You must be a Spurs fan!

 

[Diesel]

15 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Gotta say, the highlight of the game was DET doing that thing where they bring in a bench guard to 'get physical' with Trae.  Then instantly complained about getting fouls called on them.  Heh, like what'd ypu expect to happen?

Ivey out there smacking him in the face then acting all innocent.  Cmon, man.

Jaden DGreen Ivey... should have gotten a tech for that foul. 

 

[macdaddy]

Just now, Diesel said:

Jaden DGreen Ivey... should have gotten a tech for that foul. 

 

No doubt!   it was almost exactly like Draymonds.  The ref saw it and called the foul but why is that not reviewed for a flagrant when he hit him on the head away from the ball.  

[Diesel]

8 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Trae is looking closest to his second half 2021 form, it's a huge relief to see him play at this level again after a down year last year and an extremely rough start to his year. He is playing as a bonafide All Nba star and that's the hardest thing to find in this league. Defensive pieces, spot up shooters etc. We should be able to find those to plug alongside him, our failure up to this point notwithstanding.

I think we just really need some Bench repair.   Once JJ comes back... if Dre can continue to be useful, we will have a strong starting 5.. and if we can replace Matthews, with somebody who can defend the perimeter... We will be in the game.  I'm willing to take Mathews and Bruno given more time.   I know 8 man rotation.. blah blah blah.. But I would love to see Quin pulls some of these other lineups when we face teams we should beat. 

 

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

No doubt!   it was almost exactly like Draymonds.  The ref saw it and called the foul but why is that not reviewed for a flagrant when he hit him on the head away from the ball.  

It was intentional and it was Dirty.   Should have been a tech. 

 

[Spud2nique]

I missed this one too .. I dunno what’s goin on with me. How was it?

[macdaddy]

5 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I missed this one too .. I dunno what’s goin on with me. How was it?

won start to finish.  let them back in the game a couple times which is concerning but luckily they are really really horrible. Trae had a bunch of highlight reel assists. 

Our bench is not good at all.  DJ disappeared in the fourth.  Bey has quietly become our most important player and has picked up his D. 

Bey played 42 minutes!

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I missed this one too .. I dunno what’s goin on with me. How was it?

We played very well.   Trae was a Magician.  If you like Trae Young's passing, this is a game you ought to go back and watch.  Our defense was sievish like.   Cunningham kept scoring on us by running to the middle of the lane and hitting the easy shot.  Clint played beautiful basketball most of the night.   He was a target for Trae (OO was also) and Clint even showed that he can dribble and pass.   He may have racked up 2 assists.  Should have by my count.  We started off hot... everybody hitting threes.   Dre played well.   I believe we need to send Dre to the WWE performance center so that he can get used to contact.  Let him work out with Old man Kurt Angle and learn how to get leverage and how to shift his weight.  We let Detroit back in the game.   Their Bogy was hitting big shots to keep them in it.  But when they could capitalize, they would do something stupid.   Wesley showed us once again that the game has gone passed him and even though he's very demonstrative on the court, it doesn't mean much when you dribble the ball off your shoe. 

 

 

 

 

[AHF]

11 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I missed this one too .. I dunno what’s goin on with me. How was it?

We built a double digit lead early and rode it pretty much all game.  Gave up 6 points in the 4th quarter to make the final score closer but while the Hawks always make us nervous it never felt like the outcome was in real doubt.  Trae was the obvious player of the game again (passing was even better than his scoring in this one) and the team was notably better with him on the floor but all the starters had solid lines.  For the most part, our starters just beat their counterparts to win this one.  

[Mikey]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Yesterday just confirmed what I already knew. If Trae Young was on the Pistons, they would be fighting for the play-in game. It also proved that Cade is exactly what we need for Trae if we ever moved him. Murray/Cade backcourt would be substantially better as Cade is a 2 and Murray is a 1 and their games fit each other. 

Why can't we get Cade and use Murray as the piece to get him? Murray wants to be the guy and gets his own team to do that + they had interest in Dre before. Cade reputation as a player and what he has done so far is in the mud.