Trae Young - The Man, The Viper, and The Prosecution aka The MVP aka Ice Trae

[hawkzlova123]

Luka gets every excuse

Trae gets every blame

Why did this narrative create

[AHF]

16 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Oh mine wasn’t in specific order. If I ranked I’d go,

1. Zeke

2. Stockton

3. Iverson

4. Nash

5. Cp3

I don't think Iverson would make my top 5.  Issue for me is that he wasn't an efficient scorer and did nothing other than score.  He accumulated assists but not by being some great playmaker who enhanced the opportunities for others on the roster.  He and Marbury were more about pounding the ball and racking up assists because they handled the ball so much.  I think Iverson is a very difficult guy to build around or to win a ring around.  He is someone who always wanted to the offense to revolve around him and the counting stats were great but never won much of anything until Brown gave up on having a balanced team and just built around him dominating the ball and surrounding him with defenders.  I don't think it works well for him if he joined a team like Atlanta where you have a half dozen excellent offensive threats and you need to be able to facilitate for guys like that and I just never saw Iverson being willing to do that until he was past his prime.  Conversely, any of these other guys could fit on any number of teams and be extremely successful.

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The 2 i can remember off hand:

Penny and Webber

Vince and Antoine Jamison.

 

Penny and Jamison really don't measure up to Trae and Luka, imo.  The Ray Allen / Stephon Marbury trade suffers in a similar fashion by comparison.

[MarylandHawk]

21 minutes ago, hawkzlova123 said:

Luka gets every excuse

Trae gets every blame

Why did this narrative create

I remember saying a long time ago that Trae was a better fit for atlanta than Luka. Part of the reason was simply because he is in Atlanta. Atlanta sports itself is a part of a larger narrative of being a whooping boy so to speak.   Luka was used to a lot of praise and has never really had to play the under dog role before and playing for Atlanta, they would have try to bury him here too. I don’t think he would have responded as well as Trae who has dealt with this his entire life and lives to bust peoples stereo types. I also don’t think either of these guys would be doing this well this fast if they weren't pushing each other. They both want to prove that they are the best prospect in their class. Trae was built to put an underdog city on his back and watch gleefully as he lifts them out and succeeds as the haters agonize. “Be different” he says. “Always remember” he says. We got the right one ladies and gentlemen to turn this thing around. 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The 2 i can remember off hand:

Penny and Webber

Vince and Antoine Jamison.

 

Ray Allen and Stephon also... not Urkel  

[Spud2nique]

32 minutes ago, AHF said:

I don't think Iverson would make my top 5.  Issue for me is that he wasn't an efficient scorer and did nothing other than score.  He accumulated assists but not by being some great playmaker who enhanced the opportunities for others on the roster.  He and Marbury were more about pounding the ball and racking up assists because they handled the ball so much.  I think Iverson is a very difficult guy to build around or to win a ring around.  He is someone who always wanted to the offense to revolve around him and the counting stats were great but never won much of anything until Brown gave up on having a balanced team and just built around him dominating the ball and surrounding him with defenders.  I don't think it works well for him if he joined a team like Atlanta where you have a half dozen excellent offensive threats and you need to be able to facilitate for guys like that and I just never saw Iverson being willing to do that until he was past his prime.  Conversely, any of these other guys could fit on any number of teams and be extremely successful.

Penny and Jamison really don't measure up to Trae and Luka, imo.  The Ray Allen / Stephon Marbury trade suffers in a similar fashion by comparison.

I’m not a huge Iverson guy, but the dude barely listed at 6 feet. I HAVE to put him on this list. Lol.

[Thomas]

5 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I’m not a huge Iverson guy, but the dude barely listed at 6 feet. I HAVE to put him on this list. Lol.

Was a jerk and hated practice and all that but he was truly tough as nails. Picked himself up off the painted floor and hit the foul shot you know. He was wild and clutch indeed. 

[RandomFan]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He was extremely lanky. He operated like a small guy

Yeah but that man slept with Elizabeth Hurley, so he'll always be a giant in my book. 

  + 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, MarylandHawk said:

Trae was built to put an underdog city on his back and watch gleefully as he lifts them out and succeeds as the haters agonize. “Be different” he says. “Always remember” he says. We got the right one ladies and gentlemen to turn this thing around. 

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, Thomas said:

Was a jerk and hated practice and all that but he was truly tough as nails. Picked himself up off the painted floor and hit the foul shot you know. He was wild and clutch indeed. 

Was he really a jerk? I know he hated practice. No doubt tough like you said though I remember watching him at Georgetown and being kinda upset we were a middle of the road team then, well upper middle really with Deke entering the scene but a wild card indeed and when it was game time he did it. 
 

Again though I’m with AHF as in he wouldn’t be IN those top 5 per say for me if it wasn’t a 6’1” under and just strictly point guards. I’d take the Isiah’s, Stockton’s and Nash’s of the world over Iverson. Call me crazy again but Trae can morph into all of them and knows when to do what. Good times for Hawks fans indeed. Enjoy the moments folks. 

[RandomFan]

Trae in GQ nag.

 

[warcore]

26 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Trae in GQ nag.

 

Surprise, a butthurt author. Someone get that man some flowers. 

[EazyRoc]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/hawks-76ers-trae-young-giving-off-2013-stephen-curry-vibes-turning-into-nba-superstar-in-real-playoff-time/amp/
 

Pretty good article 

[RandomFan]

Another good article. 

https://theathletic.com/2636139/2021/06/07/can-bucks-keep-playing-nets-style-plus-trae-young-luka-and-usage-analytical-lookaround?source=user-shared-article

 

Trae balanced; Luka needs someone to lean on

A long-standing question has been whether, at least for anyone not named LeBron James, the heliocentric model of offense works well enough to win a title. We have seen James Harden fall just short a few times in similar fashions. One of the main throughlines of the Mavericks’ loss to the Clippers was Luka Doncic wearing down as games progressed, in part due to the sheer amount required of him to make the Mavericks offense go:

Despite their obvious physical differences, there is a commonality in role and importance to their teams between Doncic and Young. This has made direct comparison even more inevitable than it already was by virtue of the draft-day swap involving the two stars. The pair had the two highest total usage rates in the NBA over the regular season as well as the largest share of ball possession of any players. Both have only increased their loads during this postseason. But while Doncic has worn down later in games across his career, this season, Young has been an even more effective player after halftime than before.

This season, Young posted a 57.3 true shooting percentage on 30.7 usage in first halves, with both marks rising to 60.1 percent and 33.4, respectively, in second halves. (I’m ignoring overtime for now because overtime periods tend to be weird from a possession usage standpoint.) The trend hasn’t quite held in the playoffs, as his efficiency has dropped slightly after halftime, but not nearly as precipitously as Doncic’s.

Some of this is probably the difference in style. Doncic can be grindingly physical, while Young treats contact as something to be avoided except in service of drawing fouls. But much of that is the degree to which Young has help around him. Much as with the regular season, Doncic (58.8) and Young (56.7) are first and second in total usage in these playoffs. But Young is either by inclination or opportunity a little more balanced between scoring and playmaking than Doncic, while also being able to avoid turnovers slightly better thus far:

Postseason Usage Comparisons

(Nimbers missing from chart)

 

As a result, he’s also been able to get off the ball just a little bit more. Maybe Young’s effectiveness will turn out to be unsustainable in the playoffs in similar ways as Philadelphia or a future opponent gets to grips with him and Atlanta’s overall system a little bit more, but perhaps Young has hit upon a “Nash 2.0” style that combines the Brooklyn coach’s ability to put his teammates into positions to score effectively with the increased aggression looking for his own offense that Nash has said he would add in retrospect.

Edited June 8, 2021 by RandomFan

[hawkman]

30 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Another good article. 

https://theathletic.com/2636139/2021/06/07/can-bucks-keep-playing-nets-style-plus-trae-young-luka-and-usage-analytical-lookaround?source=user-shared-article

 

Trae balanced; Luka needs someone to lean on

A long-standing question has been whether, at least for anyone not named LeBron James, the heliocentric model of offense works well enough to win a title. We have seen James Harden fall just short a few times in similar fashions. One of the main throughlines of the Mavericks’ loss to the Clippers was Luka Doncic wearing down as games progressed, in part due to the sheer amount required of him to make the Mavericks offense go:

Despite their obvious physical differences, there is a commonality in role and importance to their teams between Doncic and Young. This has made direct comparison even more inevitable than it already was by virtue of the draft-day swap involving the two stars. The pair had the two highest total usage rates in the NBA over the regular season as well as the largest share of ball possession of any players. Both have only increased their loads during this postseason. But while Doncic has worn down later in games across his career, this season, Young has been an even more effective player after halftime than before.

This season, Young posted a 57.3 true shooting percentage on 30.7 usage in first halves, with both marks rising to 60.1 percent and 33.4, respectively, in second halves. (I’m ignoring overtime for now because overtime periods tend to be weird from a possession usage standpoint.) The trend hasn’t quite held in the playoffs, as his efficiency has dropped slightly after halftime, but not nearly as precipitously as Doncic’s.

Some of this is probably the difference in style. Doncic can be grindingly physical, while Young treats contact as something to be avoided except in service of drawing fouls. But much of that is the degree to which Young has help around him. Much as with the regular season, Doncic (58.8) and Young (56.7) are first and second in total usage in these playoffs. But Young is either by inclination or opportunity a little more balanced between scoring and playmaking than Doncic, while also being able to avoid turnovers slightly better thus far:

Postseason Usage Comparisons

(Nimbers missing from chart)

 

As a result, he’s also been able to get off the ball just a little bit more. Maybe Young’s effectiveness will turn out to be unsustainable in the playoffs in similar ways as Philadelphia or a future opponent gets to grips with him and Atlanta’s overall system a little bit more, but perhaps Young has hit upon a “Nash 2.0” style that combines the Brooklyn coach’s ability to put his teammates into positions to score effectively with the increased aggression looking for his own offense that Nash has said he would add in retrospect.

That article is a bit of a cop out. The narrative that Luka doesn't have help is nonsense. Luka already has the personnel to make his workload much lighter. Brunson could easily bring the ball up and initiate the offense. Dallas also has secondary ball handlers and other guys that can score if given the chance. There's no reason to have one guy grab the defensive rebound, dribble the length of the court, and then try to create something off the dribble as much as Dallas does. That style of basketball is not sustainable and doesn't work in the postseason. It's only good for inflating stats. To be honest, that's not even all on Luka. Carlisle should know better. The bottom line is Trae, after a rough adjustment period this season, is doing a much better job of being an actual PG. In fact, he's been even better in the postseason. He's legitimately making his teammates better. Why can't they just say that?

[aali34]

16 minutes ago, hawkman said:

Why can't they just say that?

Because they said he was gonna be Jimmer Fredette.

I'd put Trae in the top tier of passers in the NBA alongside LBJ Jokic and CP3. Luka's good at finding the open man but he doesn't hit guys in the pocket as well as Trae does and is more reactionary with his passes while it seems like Trae reads the defense better.

[sturt]

 

[RandomFan]

https://uproxx.com/dimemag/trae-young-hawks-sixers-problem-defense-green-simmons-thybulle-options/

[Jdawgflow]

47 minutes ago, sturt said:

 

Where is Jay these days?  I remember he used to do some great pre-draft workout write-ups back in the day.  They were so good in fact, player agents made the Hawks keep him out of the gym as it was causing some of the draftees to have their stocks drop.

[AHF]

On 6/8/2021 at 2:51 PM, hawkman said:

That article is a bit of a cop out. The narrative that Luka doesn't have help is nonsense. Luka already has the personnel to make his workload much lighter. Brunson could easily bring the ball up and initiate the offense. Dallas also has secondary ball handlers and other guys that can score if given the chance. There's no reason to have one guy grab the defensive rebound, dribble the length of the court, and then try to create something off the dribble as much as Dallas does. That style of basketball is not sustainable and doesn't work in the postseason. It's only good for inflating stats. To be honest, that's not even all on Luka. Carlisle should know better. The bottom line is Trae, after a rough adjustment period this season, is doing a much better job of being an actual PG. In fact, he's been even better in the postseason. He's legitimately making his teammates better. Why can't they just say that?

Luka does have help and frankly his team put up a pretty good performance against a good Clippers team.  No need to make excuses.   Nothing to be ashamed about.  They just got beat this post-season by a team that won 5 more games than they did during the regular season and whose best player is an experienced NBA Finals MVP.

[enrique]

On 6/7/2021 at 9:06 AM, Atlantaholic said:

He led the nation in points and assists as a freshmen. It's kind of mindboggling how he became underrated, consider Marvin was a consensus top 2 pick the year we drafted him and he barely averaged double figures.

And I believe Trae is the only player in NCAA history to lead in both. I might be wrong, but I remember reading that before the draft.