Official Game Thread: 76ers at Hawks

[Cwell]

38 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

The eye test on Cam tells me the same thing the eye test told me with Marvin Williams in his rookie year. I don't see a guy who could be a first or second option as a scorer. But he can still carve out a niche role as a defensive stopper.

Marvin couldn’t dribble without tripping over his feet. Stop it. The level of skill is completely different

[kg01]

6 minutes ago, Cwell said:

Marvin couldn’t dribble without tripping over his feet. Stop it. The level of skill is completely different

Wait, you tellin' me you can't size up a guy's full career using only 3 games?

[marco102]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

Wait, you tellin' me you can't size up a guy's full career using only 3 games?

Shocking!?!

[kg01]

20 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Shocking!?!

But, speaking of sizing up a guy's career, am I wrong in suggesting Ben Simmons is exactly the same player today that he was when he stepped on campus at LSU?

When is that going to not be ok?  Don't get me wrong, as is, he'll make ASG appearances and will get paid a lot of money. But I think they've got a lot of no-show performances from him in their future as he shies away from getting fouled or having to shoot from anywhere other than 4ft from the basket.

That just doesn't mesh well with Embiid who needs to spend more time down low.

[Atlantaholic]

7 minutes ago, kg01 said:

But, speaking of sizing up a guy's career, am I wrong in suggesting Ben Simmons is exactly the same player today that he was when he stepped on campus at LSU?

When is that going to not be ok?  Don't get me wrong, as is, he'll make ASG appearances and will get paid a lot of money. But I think they've got a lot of no-show performances from him in their future as he shies away from getting fouled or having to shoot from anywhere other than 4ft from the basket.

That just doesn't mesh well with Embiid who needs to spend more time down low.

Yup, he has shown no signs of improvement in any aspect of his game. Good for us and the rest of the east, because if he is going to peak at very good Philly isn't going to win anything with the team as is. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

The eye test on Cam tells me the same thing the eye test told me with Marvin Williams in his rookie year. I don't see a guy who could be a first or second option as a scorer. But he can still carve out a niche role as a defensive stopper.

And there's nothing wrong with that.  Marvin's 1st year was an 8 ppg - 5 rebs guy, who shot 44% FG and 25% 3FG ( although he only took 53 threes ).   If that's Cam's rookie year, but he continues to play great defense, I can't be mad at that.   He just needs to work on his midrange game, until he's decent enough to make open 3s.

[bleachkit]

42 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Yup, he has shown no signs of improvement in any aspect of his game. Good for us and the rest of the east, because if he is going to peak at very good Philly isn't going to win anything with the team as is. 

Shooting is a gift. Either you have it or you don't. Yes you can get a little better with practice. But you can't take a guy who flat out can't shoot a basketball, and make him an NBA caliber shooter. I commend the 76ers for not trying to force him to do things he's  clearly not good at, namely shooting.

[AHF]

28 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Shooting is a gift. Either you have it or you don't. Yes you can get a little better with practice. But you can't take a guy who flat out can't shoot a basketball, and make him an NBA caliber shooter. I commend the 76ers for not trying to force him to do things he's  clearly not good at, namely shooting.

Jason Kidd was one of the biggest improvements I've seen in that regard.  The fact that he shot .425% 3pt% one season and had two seasons over 40% (while shooting 4-5 attempts per game over 80+ games) is amazing.

[NBASupes]

Just now, AHF said:

Jason Kidd was one of the biggest improvements I've seen in that regard.  The fact that he shot .425% 3pt% one season and had two seasons over 40% (while shooting 4-5 attempts per game over 80+ games) is amazing.

A lot of guys who couldn't shoot when they entered can shoot threes now

[bleachkit]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

Jason Kidd was one of the biggest improvements I've seen in that regard.  The fact that he shot .425% 3pt% one season and had two seasons over 40% (while shooting 4-5 attempts per game over 80+ games) is amazing.

People always use the Jason Kidd example. But that's the exception not the rule. Most guys who can't shoot will never be able to shoot. Good thing Shaq wasn't born 20 years later than he was, some idiotic coach today would probably try to make him a stretch 4/5.

[bleachkit]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

A lot of guys who couldn't shoot when they entered can shoot threes now

Do you know any guys who didn't shoot at all, like never for years on end, and then became competent shooters later in their career? I think that ship has sailed for Ben Simmons.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

People always use the Jason Kidd example. But that's the exception not the rule. Most guys who can't shoot will never be able to shoot. Good thing Shaq wasn't born 20 years later than he was, some idiotic coach today would probably try to make him a stretch 4/5.

So are you saying Cam Reddish and Shaq are similar shooters. My goodness stfu!

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisKirschner/status/1188933512407191558

Edited October 29, 2019 by NBASupes

[Thomas]

Been a lot of players that improve from coaching though maybe not always the percentages everyone is seeking in every case. DMC, Baze and Dedmon as our guys alone are a good example of coaching up. Players with room to improve and the propensity to improve will be coached as such. Great coaching is not just for complex defenses and players don't always receive quality or consistent coaching at an early enough age so NBA shooting coaches are even more important in that regard.   

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

So are you saying Cam Reddish and Shaq are similar shooters. My goodness stfu!

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisKirschner/status/1188933512407191558

Did I ever compare Cam and Shaq in any of my posts? No I did not. 

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Did I ever compare Cam and Shaq in any of my posts? No I did not. 

Dude Cam issue is three fold.

1. His body is never even on any shot outside of that one dribble off of movement shot he takes where he looks like McGrady. Other than that, he is all over the place. His body looks sped up. He is never set. He throws everything off. 

2. He doesn't look like he is trying to make some of his shots. It looks like he is shooting because he has too. It's throwing everything off. He needs to shoot every shoot like Trae or Bembry does. Full of confidence. No f*cks given. Ready to fire. 

3. I think his vision is an issue. I need more data but his misses look so bad when you see his excellent footwork and rotation of his shot. It don't make sense. Cam doesn't have the issue guys like Leonard, to a worse exent Ball and much worse MKG had. But what he has is also damning. I am not sure if he can quickly fix it but I hope he can. 

 

Shaq bro, SHAQ?

Edited October 29, 2019 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

Cam reminds me of that extremely talented corporate worker who can do everything and is an exceptional talent but he just can't execute well at all and he is one dimensional so far but he doesn't hurt the team but his own personal metrics look like shit and everyone can see them. 

 

Cam reminds me of the 21 year old me. Hopefully he turns into the older me sooner than later. 

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Dude Cam issue is three fold.

1. His body is never even on any shot outside of that one dribble off of movement shot he takes where he looks like McGrady. Other than that, he is all over the place. His body looks sped up. He is never set. He throws everything off. 

2. He doesn't look like he is trying to make some of his shots. It looks like he is shooting because he has too. It's throwing everything off. He needs to shoot every shoot like Trae or Bembry does. Full of confidence. No f*cks given. Ready to fire. 

3. I think his vision is an issue. I need more data but his misses look so bad when you see his excellent footwork and rotation of his shot. It don't make sense. Cam doesn't have the issue guys like Leonard, to a worse exent Ball and much worse MKG had. But what he has is also damning. I am not sure if he can quickly fix it but I hope he can. 

 

Shaq bro, SHAQ?

I didn't compare him to Shaq! I said if Shaq if was in his prime today some coach might actually try to make him a shooter, with disastrous results.

[sillent]

17 hours ago, marco102 said:

Len played better  D on Embiid than anyone.  He's big too.   Len struggled hitting shots when his back was hurt last year.  It's hurt at the beginning of this season too.  I'll give Len to the 30 game mark before I start getting really concerned about him.

A caveat, he's def not playing like the worst player on the roster.  That would be Damian Jones. He's so raw. He fouled Embiid so softly three times in a row for and ones.  Turns out, that was the difference in the game among other things.

Damian Jones was drafted in 2016 and has only played 24 games total before joining us. I don't mind giving Len a pass if he's injured but I have to give Damian Jones one just the same. It already takes Bigs awhile to learn the nba game, gain experience as well as get acquainted to his new team. This next comment isn't meant to attack you or any of our fans but I can see why Josh Smith called our fans fickle. The same people that have been dogging certain players are/will be the same people praising them like they were their number one fan 3 months from now. Either that or they go ghost until it looks like they just might be right after a player has a bad game, week, month or whatever.

Trae is a good example of that right now. Before the hounds start attacking I'm not comparing Damian Jones to Trae Young just saying I can see a similar turnaround from fans and haters perspective. We saw it with Dedmon who was injured like Collins early during last season and everybody was praising Len for his new found skill. We all know in the aftermath who should've been the starter and who actually was but some were so short sighted they couldn't see what was right in front of them. That's the closes the Jones and Young similarities can get. Having a high skillset/ability for his position but people only seeing the initial results instead of the real potential. Right now Jones and Cam are in that boat but of course Cam gets a little more pass being an actual rookie. I pair those two because some can't seem to grasp that Cam is rookie. I guess Trae, Collins, eventually Huerter and Hunter possibly confused some of us by setting the bar too high. 

[sillent]

9 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I got a good three game small sample thread to make today. What it tells me? Everyone hates playing with Bembry. Kevin still needs time on his recovery and LP is having a tremendous year coaching compared to last year on ANY sample size

Is there something I'm missing. I hope I was able to record the game because I don't know where some are getting this conclusion from. Other than that I agree.

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

MKG has worked with numerous "shooting coaches", including the great Mark Price, to fix his shot.

As for Cam, you say he brings "the threat".  That's not an answer.  Heck, Pero Antic was a "threat". That doesn't mean that he did something offensively well.

My thing with Cam is simple.  Whatever that you do that is your strong suit offensively, I want him to do it.  If it's the pull up jumper in the midrange, do it.  If it's driving all the way to the basket, do it.  Right now, it's definitely not any type of jumper from 20 feet and beyond.

MKG can work with shooting coaches for another decade and it won’t matter.

Well when I say he bring a threat, he bring it at different levels of being able to break down a defense with the drive, shot or pass whereas Perl’s was strictly the shot and for the most part, a stand still shot whereas Cam can shoot on the move off screens.

When you say you want him to do one ☝ thing and do it well, why? He’s a rookie and we are a young rebuilding team whose sole purpose is development at all stages, and working on your craft to be able to have a multi set of skills is only advantages for him personally and our team moving forward imo.