No Extension for John Collins

[kg01]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Lol, I definitely don't remember that one. 

Let's just say he was as adamant about them two being good NBA players as he is adamant about Collins not being one.

I say that not as a diss of my guy, supey.  Merely as an illustration that these guys are human so factors, that can't be quantified, impact whether or not they fail or succeed.  So we need to be mindful of that when we assess players.

[Watchman]

On 12/22/2020 at 6:34 PM, High5 said:

He pretty much neutralized JV whenever they were matched up. You can't ask for much more than that. And remember Capela hadn't played NBA basketball in almost a full year.

But Jacque Vaughn is much smaller and much older.  We should expect Capela to be able to more than neutralize JV.

[JayBirdHawk]

Here we go, it's Windhbag so take it FWIW:

 

4 or 5 years?

[macdaddy]

Have we gotten any comments from JC yet?

[JayBirdHawk]

14 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Have we gotten any comments from JC yet?

None that I've seen. His play and comments after the game - same JC.

[mrhonline]

Big difference between "excess of $90M" and a 4-year max. 

FWIW, Bontemps and McMahon mentioned trading him at the deadline as a possibility.

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, mrhonline said:

Big difference between "excess of $90M" and a 4-year max. 

FWIW, Bontemps and McMahon mentioned trading him at the deadline as a possibility.

Not going to happen. I hate these people who say this, like you're going to trade John and his $4 million contract.  What in the hell are you going to get back for equal value for him?  You can add snell to get to $17 million, but again, who are you getting in return at that price that's better than Collins?

I hate these people and the narratives they create and just run with them without thinking. 

[mrhonline]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Not going to happen. I hate these people who say this, like you're going to trade John and his $4 million contract.  What in the hell are you going to get back for equal value for him?  You can add snell to get to $17 million, but again, who are you getting in return at that price that's better than Collins?

I hate these people and the narratives they create and just run with them without thinking. 

They're operating under the assumption that the Hawks don't want to pay Collins what he can get on the open market. If that assumption is correct (and we all need to admit there's been some smoke), then they're thinking just fine.

You'll get more for him at the deadline than in the offseason.

[marco102]

1 minute ago, mrhonline said:

They're operating under the assumption that the Hawks don't want to pay Collins what he can get on the open market. If that assumption is correct (and we all need to admit there's been some smoke), then they're thinking just fine.

You'll get more for him at the deadline than in the offseason.

What you get for him at $4 million you might as well let him walk for free.   It's not that they don't want to match him, they don't think he's a max player and John does. If he plays well enough to get a max, he'll get it. If not, then they'll probably match. You can match and still trade him later for something much better.  

It makes no sense to trade him while he's making $4 million.

[EazyRoc]

I think if John continues to improve, we will resign him at whatever cost it takes. But now that we’ve got a little depth in the front court, there’s no rush to sign him.

[macdaddy]

If we could have extended him for 4/100 i wish we would have done it.  

[Jody23]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Here we go, it's Windhbag so take it FWIW:

 

4 or 5 years?

My guess would be a 4 year deal.

[bleachkit]

2 hours ago, Jody23 said:

My guess would be a 4 year deal.

My guess on the numbers was dead on.

Edited December 25, 2020 by bleachkit

[TheNorthCydeRises]

11 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Here we go, it's Windhbag so take it FWIW:

 

4 or 5 years?

Either way, I'm turning that down if I'm JC.

4 yrs - 90 million?  With the 2021 draft already weakened by most of the top guys taking extensions?

Yeah, if I'm JC, I'm betting on myself this season, and taking the best offer available.  And if the Hawks match, great.  If they don't, that's great for my wallet

[mrhonline]

17 hours ago, marco102 said:

If he plays well enough to get a max, he'll get it.

I feel like I'm yelling into a wind tunnel:

"VALUE IS AFFECTED BY DEMAND."

It's likely that he's going to get that $125M or darn close to it even if he doesn't get much better. 

Look at the Spurs cap space and roster needs for next year. They can overpay a guy like Collins without screwing up their long-term plans. The Hawks? Paying Trae+Collins $70M per year would most definitely be a risky move long-term.

[mrhonline]

8 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Either way, I'm turning that down if I'm JC.

I agree with you, and it's why I don't really understand what the Hawks are doing.

Either commit to him at a rate that's closer to what he'll get on the open market or move him while he still has value.  I suspect they're trying to squeeze him, but as Hollinger always says, "It only takes one crazy team."

Yes, you can trade him down the road if he fails to live up to the deal, but it won't be great value. He'll be "poison-pilled" for the first year of that max, and then you're looking at 3 years, $95+M (and, possibly, a PO in the last year) to get off your books.

[Gray Mule]

Selfish?  Team first?  

The biggest problem with any and all NBA players?  They want all that they can get.  That's no problem, you say.  Truth, it's not a problem until you look around and see what are all my team mates going to get?

Collins wants, and his agent demands, that he gets a huge payday (contract) which will take a huge chunk of the Hawk's payroll in coming years.  If we don't pay, someone else will.

Now, what about the other young Hawks?  All will expect huge raises and some will point to Collins, "I want what he got."  That pushes Atlanta into the luxury tax bracket.  For every payroll dollar over the max, Atlanta must pay.  and, this penalty is not small potatoes.

Questions arise.  Can the Hawks meet all these demands?  Can they still make ends meet.  Can the owners come up with the extra cash if the club does not make enough to pay the players?  America's entertainment has, and always will, cost a lot of money.  I can vouch for this.  I just added another TV carrier (AT&T) so that I could watch the Hawks games.

If Atlanta will not pay, someone else will.  True.  Does anyone else see the problem?  Major cities can pay out big $$$ dollars and build mega, super teams because they can afford it.  

A problem I have no solution for.  But, it needs to be addressed.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL !!

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, mrhonline said:

I agree with you, and it's why I don't really understand what the Hawks are doing.

Either commit to him at a rate that's closer to what he'll get on the open market or move him while he still has value.  I suspect they're trying to squeeze him, but as Hollinger always says, "It only takes one crazy team."

Yes, you can trade him down the road if he fails to live up to the deal, but it won't be great value. He'll be "poison-pilled" for the first year of that max, and then you're looking at 3 years, $95+M (and, possibly, a PO in the last year) to get off your books.

You are likely going to have to max Trae. So if you give JC the max then you have much less flexibility. What if Reddish and Hunter need big deals down the road? 

[marco102]

3 hours ago, mrhonline said:

I feel like I'm yelling into a wind tunnel:

"VALUE IS AFFECTED BY DEMAND."

It's likely that he's going to get that $125M or darn close to it even if he doesn't get much better. 

Look at the Spurs cap space and roster needs for next year. They can overpay a guy like Collins without screwing up their long-term plans. The Hawks? Paying Trae+Collins $70M per year would most definitely be a risky move long-term.

I feel like you are not understanding what I'm saying. 

What can you get for trading Collins at $4 million that's worth more than losing him for nothing? It doesn't make sense to trade him, they will just have to match or let him walk.

Everyone's obsessed with getting value, but sometimes the best thing to do is let things play out.  

The Hawks hold all the cards, you say it stops their flexibility, but it really doesn't.  Any contract can be traded, a lot of teams have proven that.

Edited December 25, 2020 by marco102

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

I feel like you are not understanding what I'm saying. 

What can you get for trading Collins at $4 million that's worth more than losing him for nothing? It doesn't make sense to trade him, they will just have to match or let him walk.

Everyone's obsessed with getting value, but sometimes the best thing to do is let things play out.  

The Hawks hold all the cards, you say it stops their flexibility, but it really doesn't.  Any contract can be traded, a lot of teams have proven that.

At only $4 million, it'll have to be something like a lottery pick in the 2021 draft at the trade deadline, but tgat doesn't help us if we are in the playoff hunt.