No Extension for John Collins

[gurpilo]

Lavine is a bad fit for Hawks, Cam is the best SG we can have next to Trae. If we would trade Collins that should be for a PF, one that can shoot. 

[GameTime]

19 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

Lavine is a bad fit for Hawks, Cam is the best SG we can have next to Trae. If we would trade Collins that should be for a PF, one that can shoot. 

So trade Collins for a lesser version of Collins? That's why it just makes sense to pay John.

[kg01]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

I'll push back on this a bit, has Lavine been given the situation to adjust? He has a role that he can play, but he's stuck being the offensive engine of the Chicago Bulls.  

I just hate these narratives that certain players are losing players.  You don't sneeze your way into the numbers Lavine puts up. He needs to be in a better situation with a better role.  Potentially a bench role if he can't improve his defense. 

I've become very anti calling good players "losing players" after the crap we've had to put up with Trae.

This is fair pushback.  We just disagree here, which is fine.

Let's re-visit after his trade request (which I believe is coming) and see how things play out in the next few years (assuming I live that long ).

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

This is fair pushback.  We just disagree here, which is fine.

Let's re-visit after his trade request (which I believe is coming) and see how things play out in the next few years (assuming I live that long ).

I hope you do man. Me too for that matter..lol.

[gurpilo]

hace 11 minutos, GameTime dijo:

So trade Collins for a lesser version of Collins? That's why it just makes sense to pay John.

Well, cannot argue with that, I would try to sign him but I think the situation is getting complicated. I would understand trying to trade him for a defensive upgrade. 

[sturt]

Just for the sake of saying so, not the sake of discussion...

If we could vote on such things, I'd vote for a ban on any Collins trade talk until the week before the trade deadline... it's kinda superfluous and kinda counterproductive at-best, and that's even if one thought that the two sides aren't ever going to get together (... and I'm not one of those).

(EDIT: Btw, that's just an over-dramatic way of making the point. Not actually an advocate that anything Hawks-related should ever be subject to such a vote. Discussion good, censorship bad, except in the most extreme cases.)

Edited December 26, 2020 by sturt

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, sturt said:

Just for the sake of saying so, not the sake of discussion...

If we could vote on such things, I'd vote for a ban on any Collins trade talk until the week before the trade deadline... it's kinda superfluous and kinda counterproductive at-best, and that's even if one thought that the two sides aren't ever going to get together (... and I'm not one of those).

Plus he is the only healthy big we have that we can play heavy minutes and have a shot at winning.

[warcore]

1 hour ago, hawkman said:

I'm digging the Kanye West "Jesus Walks" reference. 

Oh that was a Happy Gilmore reference.... but glad you got a laugh!

[Cwell]

3 hours ago, marco102 said:

I think this deal is fine.  Schlenk basically gave John an offer as a good starter. It wasn't disrespectful, in my opinion.  

John knows the Hawks value him at a $90 million, it's up to him to prove he's worth more.  Go out there and get us wins, perform super well in the playoffs,  improve his playmaking and play good defense, he'll get even more.  

and stay on the court. He's missed 50 games the last 2 years. That suspension hurt him alot

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, kg01 said:

Not sure what you're getting at.

You think I came to that realization on Lavine simply by looking at his teams' won/loss records?

Clearly, I did not.

On Steph, which is a totally different conversation, I don't think he's a losing player.  But it seems obvious he's declined and that was evident even while his teams were making it to the finals.  The current state of their team should surprise no one.

That's BS.

Steph is not declining... and I believe it points out the problem with your ability to observe talent.   Steph needs certain players around him to take pressure off of him.. as do most star players... including Lavine.   Steph was more free when he had Klay and KD playing with him.   He had to adjust to having a scorer like KD but he did.  That's not declining. 

Lavine is the whole offense for Chicago.  The Whole offense.  If you put him with other guys who can play offense and he will shine and that team will win. 

 

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, terrell said:

Yeah and people wonder why we took Okungwu......smh

Young man, we took Okungwu because he was the best 4/5 present.   Most of what we took him for is to give us leverage with JC.   Otherwise, we may have taken Haliburton.  His defense does make him better than Toppin for us but not that much better. 

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, sturt said:

Just for the sake of saying so, not the sake of discussion...

If we could vote on such things, I'd vote for a ban on any Collins trade talk until the week before the trade deadline... it's kinda superfluous and kinda counterproductive at-best, and that's even if one thought that the two sides aren't ever going to get together (... and I'm not one of those).

(EDIT: Btw, that's just an over-dramatic way of making the point. Not actually an advocate that anything Hawks-related should ever be subject to such a vote. Discussion good, censorship bad, except in the most extreme cases.)

Waiting until the week before the trade deadline puts us in a lack of leverage situation.   Other teams will see us as being desperate.   I say you just float your wish list out and see what teams will bite.  But take nothing lower than your wish list and give teams that stern unmovable face when they try to negotiate. 

 

 

[kg01]

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

That's BS.

Steph is not declining... and I believe it points out the problem with your ability to observe talent.   Steph needs certain players around him to take pressure off of him.. as do most star players... including Lavine.   Steph was more free when he had Klay and KD playing with him.   He had to adjust to having a scorer like KD but he did.  That's not declining. 

Lavine is the whole offense for Chicago.  The Whole offense.  If you put him with other guys who can play offense and he will shine and that team will win. 

 

Why you need to make everything personal?

When I saw Steph losing a step in the playoffs 3 years ago, you're suggesting he got it back by getting 3 years older?  He struggles to separate now, that's fairly obvious.

[sturt]

5 hours ago, sturt said:

If we could vote on such things, I'd vote for a ban on any Collins trade talk until the week before the trade deadline...

... forgive me, meant that to be taken "...trade talk here on HS..."

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Why you need to make everything personal?

When I saw Steph losing a step in the playoffs 3 years ago, you're suggesting he got it back by getting 3 years older?  He struggles to separate now, that's fairly obvious.

I think it's your opinion that he was losing a step in the playoffs 3 years ago.  Not everybody shares that opinion.  No need to argue what's not true. 

 

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I think it's your opinion that he was losing a step in the playoffs 3 years ago.  Not everybody shares that opinion.  No need to argue what's not true. 

 

And it's your opinion that he wasn't. 

Your opinion is "true" but mine isn't?

Don't bother answering, you're simply confirming this isn't a real conversation so I'm done.

[AHF]

9 hours ago, bleachkit said:

One of the least efficient chuckers ever was JR Smith. Even he became a winning player with the Cavs. They even give him a big contract. The situation you are in is so important. Lavine could thrive in the right situation.

He wasn’t one of the least efficient checkers ever.  Before coming to Cleveland he had a >.540% ts%.  That isn’t all-time great or anything but it is much better than a lot of guards.  He wasn’t more efficient in Cleveland.  The change ws perception.

LaVine can be a better JR Smith.  But that isn’t worth a John Collins.

[HawkingAwesome]

collins aint going no where

[JayBirdHawk]

On 12/22/2020 at 12:31 PM, NBASupes said:

I'll call it an overpay to a massive overpay. I hope he's traded if the value is there which I don't think will be but if it is, move him. I am still holding out hope for a Mikal Bridges for JC trade.

5 games in, are you still hoping for this?

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

5 games in, are you still hoping for this?

Mikal is killing right now it so that's not happening. Have you been watching Bridges play or naw which is what I expect?