Official Game Thread: Mavericks at Hawks

[Cwell]

59 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

LOL....Trae says offensively they are making things up on the fly. 

It’s pretty obvious they just freelance most of the time. People keep saying so and so needs to improve their off ball game.....HOW?!?!? These guys are clearly lost. How many times do I have to watch Cam go “should I cut, should I cut, should I cut? How about now? cut?” Even when he got that game winning dunk against Charlotte last season you can see he was unsure of if he should cut or not.
 

These guys need structure so when things aren’t going well, they at least have something they’re confident in. Because at this point all they have to go to is hero ball.  There’s a reason things continue to get out of hand in the 4th

[NBASupes]

19 minutes ago, timebomb said:

I agree I’ve been high on Cam and see his potential and think he’s fixable. But with Hunter out he’s had a prime opportunity to step up and instead he just looks out of control. Turning the ball over and taking bad shots. I would’ve benched him even though we need him. Because tonight he was a negative. He needs to sit and watch and needs a coach specifically for him. Sometimes we forget these guys are super young and the development of 2 3 4 years of college just isn’t there and at this point his trade value is a flyer for most any team.

He's simply not at that level right now regardless of the opportunity offensively. 

While Luka is one of the best in the NBA at reading the ball handler, Cam should have used a lot of Luka tricks on Luka. Shielding the ball away, using body feints, you know, things we never see Cam do as he's more of And 1, face up dribbler. 

He's too critical to winning for him to sit. He's gotta learn on the fly. 

I would love for him to really study Solo, Klay, and DMC. Those players have a tremendous feel off the ball. Klay and DMC also provide tremendous movement. Cam style of play to be an elite player needs a lot of development. He has to master the off ball side of the game. Yes, he has to get to where he was from Jan on last year with his handles and shot but really, he's gotta be better off the ball. The energy is there, we need to see the impact. Impact is critical to winning.

We saw Kevin have an excellent night and it wasn't as impact as we would like. Impact wins you games. You can't coach what we need from Cam off the ball. You gotta feel it. Klay brain is mad underrated. His off the ball movement is for a purpose. We gotta get Cam to that point. I see signs of Hunter doing it but it's not consistent. Cam has the speed, agility, and energy. He just needs the brain and the know with all. He needs to learn how to play professional basketball offensively. For his style of play, it's going to be critical. 

If he can be a modified Klay Thompson, he would be extremely valuable to us long term.

Edited February 4, 2021 by NBASupes

[High5]

That Cam/Luka matchup was a nightmare on both ends. I have to believe we win comfortably with Hunter in there. He’s better equipped to defend Luka and he’s our best bet at punishing that defense on Trae.

[Peoriabird]

6 hours ago, Cwell said:

It’s pretty obvious they just freelance most of the time. People keep saying so and so needs to improve their off ball game.....HOW?!?!? These guys are clearly lost. How many times do I have to watch Cam go “should I cut, should I cut, should I cut? How about now? cut?” Even when he got that game winning dunk against Charlotte last season you can see he was unsure of if he should cut or not.
 

These guys need structure so when things aren’t going well, they at least have something they’re confident in. Because at this point all they have to go to is hero ball.  There’s a reason things continue to get out of hand in the 4th

This^^^^^^^

[Gray Mule]

15 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Must win for the Hawks tonight!

The kiss of death!  Atlanta teams all find it very hard to win and game labeled "Must win."

And, as we now know, Hawks lose another close one.

[Gray Mule]

9 hours ago, Jody23 said:

Not having a backup point guard who can keep the offense going is just brutal.

Well, the old man had the answer but I didn't get my man n the draft.

Oh, well.  Agent 0017 will soon be well and make me forget.  I hope.

[NBASupes]

From an overall effectiveness aspect, if we can get Cam to mirror DMC to a degree, it would help us a lot: 

Shot mechanics and ball handling are fixable for Cam as we saw last year. Off ball play and even off the ball defense, I really want him to watch Carroll. These highlights don't showcase what DMC was for us off ball movement wise. 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by NBASupes

[kg01]

When Rondo doesn't have it for the night, it's brutal.  If it wasn't so brutal, it would be kinda comical.

I can't lie, seeing him losing the ball out of bounds or dribblin' off his own foot makes me chuckle ... then I realize it's a turnover and I die a little inside.

Another time, Rondo ran to challenge a shot but the guy pump-faked.  Only, Rondo couldn't stop.  He took like 450 tiny little jab steps to try and stop himself.  By the time he got to step #347, the guy had already reloaded and shot.   #RondoYouOld

It was the same with Vince ( "That's Bintz, kg").  Once I saw him closeout on a shooter only to have the shooter put a basic-a** move to get by him.  Sadly, Vince literally had no physical way to change direction so he just t-boned the guy for a should-be flagrant foul.  He just helped the guy up and went on his merry way.

All I could think was, "Dang Vince, you old."

[macdaddy]

That sucked.   A lot of generally bad play and while i've defending LP sometimes, he got out coached in this one the same as he did against Thibs.  Several players played awful without a doubt though.  

A few random thoughts though:

- what happened to getting a tech and a fine when you flop?   did they quit doing that?  Porzingis is really one of the most annoying, mediocre players in the nba

- what a friggin waste of a challenge.  Yeah it was great to show the world his stupid flop but we didn't even get the ball back and only saved a foul on Solo.   Maybe try to save a foul on Trae or Cap?  Ended up trading 2 FTs for a 3.  Nice job.

- Cam.   Come on man.  

- get JC the ball.  geezus

- why aren't we running these guys.  We let them dictate the pace

- Snell can play a good role for us.  Glad to see him in there.

- Rondo needs to develop some chemistry with the players.   He's too busy telling everyone what to do and then hits them with a laser in the knees when they aren't looking.

Honestly  the Mavs needed a win.  But part of me thinks that Carlisle decided there was no way he was going to let Trae go for 40 in this game for lots of reasons.  We could have done similar with Luka.  Mavs roster is not great.  Get the ball out of his hands.   

 

[hylndr11]

Need to get rid of cam while there may be something left to get, he's just not very bright he picks up nothing about the nuance of the game. I'm sure this will be unpopular post but I've seen enough at this point imo

 

[bleachkit]

Cam has the second lowest 3P% in the NBA at 26.4 and the second lowest FG% at 36.2. Talk about a bricklayer. Jesus. 

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, hylndr11 said:

Need to get rid of cam while there may be something left to get, he's just not very bright he picks up nothing about the nuance of the game. I'm sure this will be unpopular post but I've seen enough at this point imo

 

I'm willing to wait to see whether another competent coaching staff would improve his BBIQ.

[bleachkit]

14 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

That sucked.   A lot of generally bad play and while i've defending LP sometimes, he got out coached in this one the same as he did against Thibs.  Several players played awful without a doubt though.  

A few random thoughts though:

- what happened to getting a tech and a fine when you flop?   did they quit doing that?  Porzingis is really one of the most annoying, mediocre players in the nba

- what a friggin waste of a challenge.  Yeah it was great to show the world his stupid flop but we didn't even get the ball back and only saved a foul on Solo.   Maybe try to save a foul on Trae or Cap?  Ended up trading 2 FTs for a 3.  Nice job.

- Cam.   Come on man.  

- get JC the ball.  geezus

- why aren't we running these guys.  We let them dictate the pace

- Snell can play a good role for us.  Glad to see him in there.

- Rondo needs to develop some chemistry with the players.   He's too busy telling everyone what to do and then hits them with a laser in the knees when they aren't looking.

Honestly  the Mavs needed a win.  But part of me thinks that Carlisle decided there was no way he was going to let Trae go for 40 in this game for lots of reasons.  We could have done similar with Luka.  Mavs roster is not great.  Get the ball out of his hands.   

 

I dont know why every team doesn't just blitz Trae. We have shown time and time again, we dont adjust very well to it and we dont make teams pay for doing it. 

[JTB]

11 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

This is always the reflex go to...Find even more players and maybe this guy can coach the team into a few more wins.  The team has enough to win but is being held back.

Lol I’m not suggesting trading for beal do it’s not a reflex really. 

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I dont know why every team doesn't just blitz Trae. We have shown time and time again, we dont adjust very well to it and we dont make teams pay for doing it. 

It definitely felt like that but they did it the whole first half and we went into halftime with the lead.   But i agree that we should have been able to make that an advantage for us and we didn't.  Not sure why.    I didn't really like our slowness to execute. 

[REHawksFan]

12 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

That sucked.   A lot of generally bad play and while i've defending LP sometimes, he got out coached in this one the same as he did against Thibs.  Several players played awful without a doubt though.  

A few random thoughts though:

- what happened to getting a tech and a fine when you flop?   did they quit doing that?  Porzingis is really one of the most annoying, mediocre players in the nba

- what a friggin waste of a challenge.  Yeah it was great to show the world his stupid flop but we didn't even get the ball back and only saved a foul on Solo.   Maybe try to save a foul on Trae or Cap?  Ended up trading 2 FTs for a 3.  Nice job.

- Cam.   Come on man.  

- get JC the ball.  geezus

- why aren't we running these guys.  We let them dictate the pace

- Snell can play a good role for us.  Glad to see him in there.

- Rondo needs to develop some chemistry with the players.   He's too busy telling everyone what to do and then hits them with a laser in the knees when they aren't looking.

Honestly  the Mavs needed a win.  But part of me thinks that Carlisle decided there was no way he was going to let Trae go for 40 in this game for lots of reasons.  We could have done similar with Luka.  Mavs roster is not great.  Get the ball out of his hands.   

 

Great post. I wanna focus on 2 points that are still infuriating to me even after a night's sleep.

1. Why aren't we running these guys / dictate pace.....Holy hell did LP get outcoached. They rushed Trae nearly every possession because they knew we couldn't run them off the court without him and the offense basically just bogged down while trae watched.  Yes, there were several times when they were able to take advantage of the imbalance from Trae's double man, but it never looked effortless or even intentional to me.  Just looked like trae would swing it to the open man (Huerter or Cam mostly) who would dribble dribble dribble until they either found a lane, took a shot, or sent it back to Trae at the end of the clock. Just no fluidity whatsoever.  Is that really the best LP has?  I now know the answer.  Trae after the game even said they were just making it up as they go.  Really????  
2. This is the one that just steams me.  Rick Carlisle might as well have handed LP a giant, bolded, 72-font, highlighted, flashing cheat code for how to play and dominate his Mavs team.  Just double team Luka to get the ball out of his hands just like Carlisle was doing to Trae. The Mavs supporting cast is nothing to write home about in general. Hawks starters would dominate that crew.  What could possibly go wrong?  Oh wait, LP waited 45 (FORTY-FIVE!!!) minutes to employ said strategy and by then the game was over and the Hawks were down 15.  Oh but wait, there's more.  When said strategy worked to perfection just like Carlisle showed LP it would (and the Hawks proceeded to cut the deficit to 3 pts in the span of 2:30), what does LP decide to do with the game on the line needing a stop down 3 with 42.3 seconds left?  What could LP possibly do other than keep doing what was working you might ask?  It's what Vince said during the time out.  Keep. Doing. What's. Working.   Oh no.....not LP. He's going to freaking put Solo on Luka by himself and allow Luka to drive - rather easily - straight to the rim for a layup (which he fortuitously missed but KP tipped in).  Boom. Game over. Thanks for nothing LP.   

I just broke my keyboard typing that ish out.  

[bleachkit]

11 minutes ago, JTB said:

Lol I’m not suggesting trading for beal do it’s not a reflex really. 

The going rate for a player like Beal is 3 1's and 2 trade swaps.

[bleachkit]

6 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Great post. I wanna focus on 2 points that are still infuriating to me even after a night's sleep.

1. Why aren't we running these guys / dictate pace.....Holy hell did LP get outcoached. They rushed Trae nearly every possession because they knew we couldn't run them off the court without him and the offense basically just bogged down while trae watched.  Yes, there were several times when they were able to take advantage of the imbalance from Trae's double man, but it never looked effortless or even intentional to me.  Just looked like trae would swing it to the open man (Huerter or Cam mostly) who would dribble dribble dribble until they either found a lane, took a shot, or sent it back to Trae at the end of the clock. Just no fluidity whatsoever.  Is that really the best LP has?  I now know the answer.  Trae after the game even said they were just making it up as they go.  Really????  
2. This is the one that just steams me.  Rick Carlisle might as well have handed LP a giant, bolded, 72-font, highlighted, flashing cheat code for how to play and dominate his Mavs team.  Just double team Luka to get the ball out of his hands just like Carlisle was doing to Trae. The Mavs supporting cast is nothing to write home about in general. Hawks starters would dominate that crew.  What could possibly go wrong?  Oh wait, LP waited 45 (FORTY-FIVE!!!) minutes to employ said strategy and by then the game was over and the Hawks were down 15.  Oh but wait, there's more.  When said strategy worked to perfection just like Carlisle showed LP it would (and the Hawks proceeded to cut the deficit to 3 pts in the span of 2:30), what does LP decide to do with the game on the line needing a stop down 3 with 42.3 seconds left?  What could LP possibly do other than keep doing what was working you might ask?  It's what Vince said during the time out.  Keep. Doing. What's. Working.   Oh no.....not LP. He's going to freaking put Solo on Luka by himself and allow Luka to drive - rather easily - straight to the rim for a layup (which he fortuitously missed but KP tipped in).  Boom. Game over. Thanks for nothing LP.   

I just broke my keyboard typing that ish out.  

CLP is very stubborn. That's never a good sign for a coach. Good coaches adjust and make changes.

[gHost83]

3 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Great post. I wanna focus on 2 points that are still infuriating to me even after a night's sleep.

1. Why aren't we running these guys / dictate pace.....Holy hell did LP get outcoached. They rushed Trae nearly every possession because they knew we couldn't run them off the court without him and the offense basically just bogged down while trae watched.  Yes, there were several times when they were able to take advantage of the imbalance from Trae's double man, but it never looked effortless or even intentional to me.  Just looked like trae would swing it to the open man (Huerter or Cam mostly) who would dribble dribble dribble until they either found a lane, took a shot, or sent it back to Trae at the end of the clock. Just no fluidity whatsoever.  Is that really the best LP has?  I now know the answer.  Trae after the game even said they were just making it up as they go.  Really????  
2. This is the one that just steams me.  Rick Carlisle might as well have handed LP a giant, bolded, 72-font, highlighted, flashing cheat code for how to play and dominate his Mavs team.  Just double team Luka to get the ball out of his hands just like Carlisle was doing to Trae. The Mavs supporting cast is nothing to write home about in general. Hawks starters would dominate that crew.  What could possibly go wrong?  Oh wait, LP waited 45 (FORTY-FIVE!!!) minutes to employ said strategy and by then the game was over and the Hawks were down 15.  Oh but wait, there's more.  When said strategy worked to perfection just like Carlisle showed LP it would (and the Hawks proceeded to cut the deficit to 3 pts in the span of 2:30), what does LP decide to do with the game on the line needing a stop down 3 with 42.3 seconds left?  What could LP possibly do other than keep doing what was working you might ask?  It's what Vince said during the time out.  Keep. Doing. What's. Working.   Oh no.....not LP. He's going to freaking put Solo on Luka by himself and allow Luka to drive - rather easily - straight to the rim for a layup (which he fortuitously missed but KP tipped in).  Boom. Game over. Thanks for nothing LP.   

I just broke my keyboard typing that ish out.  

Bruh. Point number 2 is so on point.  They trap Trae from the start of the game and it takes the hawks until the 4th to even think about using this strat against Luka.  

It's not some brilliant super coaching move to double the player that initiates the offense that's dominating you.  It's BASIC freaking BASKETBALL. Yet LP and his atrocious rotations can't seem to grasp the simplest concepts...

[kg01]

This place is a cesspool when we lose .. and oftentimes when we win.