Hawks locker room is not healthy after "quiet" trade deadline

[JeffS17]

Yikes, I think Trae has some maturing to do.  You see it clearly from time to time, like when he was sulking in the game before LP got fired and standing outside the perimeter, or in this little saga here, or when he answers questions about learning from people like Rondo or Lou he always says things like "I know what I can do" or "I know a lot myself so we'll talk basketball" or something like that.  It's also clear he cares about counting stats like when he forced up 26 shots to get his 30/10 against the Celtics.  He's still very young though and this year should be a good learning experience.

I don't really see Kev/Gallo/Bogi getting a pass much on here but maybe that's the case on other media outlets.  Gallo is atrocious defensively and this was talked about at length the other day -- although most did not agree with me that he was expendable for this reason.  Bogi is very bad and in my opinion the biggest offender on the team.  Kev tries hard (and fouls a lot for it) most of the time so it's not really an effort issue.  He also has the best net rating of anyone on the team except Okongwu, so I don't know that he deserves a ton of criticism.

[shakes]

12 hours ago, Sothron said:

 

 

 

I hesitate to say this because this might upset some people. I can only repeat what I'm hearing. Bogi, Gallo and Kevin's lack of defense and offensive consistency and being held accountable for it by the media and, yes, get ready for it the Hawks fans especially here on the Squawk is being seen by several players as passive racism. Meaning: Bogi, Gallo and Kevin  are getting a free pass because they are white. They resent that other players like Trae, Delon, Collins, Capela etc. have been routinely criticized this season but hardly anything is said negatively about the three white players. 

 

What I got from that great post is that basically everything I've been saying here is accurate.

 

Find the above especially interesting.  It was just a few weeks ago that I started a topic stating that the biggest problem with our team is the 3 white guys.  That topic was highly censored/edited by the mods.   I wonder if that topic being modded like that caught the eye of some Hawks players.

 

But the main point is just how right I was.   Those 3 are the biggest problem on the team.  I give Gallo a pass for the most part because he's old.  But Bogi and Huerter are a joke, two of the softest players I've ever seen.   They should be getting blasted on here every game for their piss poor defensive efforts and general lack of give a F on that side of the ball.

 

 

[macdaddy]

Trae lobbying to get Simmons or help in general is good.   This is what all superstars too.  No one cared when MJ, Kobe, Lebron did it year after year.   Yeah folks may not think Trae belongs in that company but they should hope he does.

Kev doesn't get a pass from me.  He's about to be way overpaid if he doesn't pick it up.

I like Bogi. I get his D isn't great but at least he has the skills we need otherwise.  No one else seems to

Gallo?  Geez man why is anyone miffed with his D?  His knees don't bend.  He's doing what he can.  It's not going to get better.

The players can complain about being on the block but what is Travis doing?  Travis is mad that this locker room stuff 'got out'?  are you kidding?  There isn't anything that happens internally on a team that doesn't get to the other players in the league.  There are no secrets.

And you're going to let JC's name just float in trade rumors for 2 years now and not try to squash it?  

It's going to be big offseason i guarantee that. 

[shakes]

12 hours ago, Sothron said:

 

 Bogi is the most talked about Hawk on defense, even more than Trae, because unlike Trae's excuse with doing 100% on offense Bogi can't say that. Bogi's quick to do a take foul versus actually moving his feet. Bogi will grab a big with a ball rather than try to play position defense or knock the ball out of his hands for a steal or even a jump ball.

 

yep, another thing I've been screaming from the top of the heavens about.  I've even made several comments about how Bogi leads the league in take fouls the way Gretzky led the NHL in points.

[macdaddy]

Just now, shakes said:

yep, another thing I've been screaming from the top of the heavens about.  I've even made several comments about how Bogi leads the league in take fouls the way Gretzky led the NHL in points.

I disagree.  I'm not going to argue Bogi's D has been good or consistent but Kev is just a place holder out there on both sides.  I'd much rather have the guy who's going to try to at least make a play vs try to find someone to pass the ball to as quickly as possible or drive right in a big wide circle and shoot a fadeaway (sorry Kev if you're reading). 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

Who is giving who a pass?

Whom. 

[shakes]

13 hours ago, Sothron said:

 

 

Capela, for his part, is fed up with guys only caring about stats. Trae tells everyone about his stats and his records.

this is the only part of the post that I don't believe.  I have a hard time believing that Trae or any star player is walking aroudn the locker room telling everyone his stats.   That sounds ridiculous and would require a level of lack of self awareness that I doubt Trae has.

[shakes]

6 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I disagree.  I'm not going to argue Bogi's D has been good or consistent but Kev is just a place holder out there on both sides.  I'd much rather have the guy who's going to try to at least make a play vs try to find someone to pass the ball to as quickly as possible or drive right in a big wide circle and shoot a fadeaway (sorry Kev if you're reading). 

huh ?   Committing a take foul instead of getting back on defense is "trying to at least make a play"?  

[Dnice]

This mess looks like RHOA - Real Hawks of Atlanta.

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, shakes said:

huh ?   Committing a take foul instead of getting back on defense is "trying to at least make a play"?  

I'm talking about on offense, but take fouls aren't a bad play at all.  There's a reason every team does them but that's not really the point.  There are much bigger issues with Bogi's D.  All i'm saying is Kevin's is marginally better and he's been so much worse on offense lately.

[Spud2nique]

@Sothron quit stirring shit up playa. Get a hobby like knitting  

 

[shakes]

10 hours ago, terrell said:

The defense still didnt look good tbh...

It's not the defense's fault.  It's just that every game our opponents just happen to have career best shooting nights from 3.  So it't just bad luck.  Or at least that's what I've learned from listening to Bog and Nique every game.

[AHF]

7 hours ago, Threezus said:

The one thing i disagree with is their notion that we don't call white players out on defense.  Hell Bogi, Huerter, and Gallo have been the whipping boys from our slander and complaining every week.  We trash on their defense more than anyone else on the team and thats including Trae.  Mainly because trae provides a ton of offense and usage so we can somewhat look the other way on defense at times.  But those 3 don't have any reason not to give a ton of effort on defense and they just don't.   We are usually bragging more about Hunter, OO, Wright, Capel, and Collins on defense than anyone else on the team.    So i don't know wtf they are reading or seeing but they might need some better glasses because their not seeing it right at all.  It's the complete opposite of whats being thought of an said on here and Real GM. 

Fully agree with this.

I guess if I was going to qualify it at all, I'd say that Gallo gets talked about less because people just assume he is garbage on defense and don't really expect anything better.  So he still gets some criticism but not as much as some of the others because we expect him to be a liability there.  Same with Trae, really.  He gets called out for his defense more just because he is talked about more but many posters just kind of shrug and assume he is going to be liability there and don't feel the need to dwell on it.  Bogi and Huerter don't get a pass and are routinely critiqued.  

Also agree with the positive comments on OO, Wright, Hunter, Cap and (to a lesser degree) Collins.  

The only racially tinged comments I've removed from the Squawk with this team have been ones calling out Bogi, Huerter and Gallo and even there the criticism was fair it was just bundled with lumping them together by skin color and therefore just edited down to the actual basketball content.  

[shakes]

10 hours ago, terrell said:

Trae telling the other players about his stats? Im not shocked by the other stuff, but this is crazy.. lol

yea sounds like total BS to me.

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, Dnice said:

This mess looks like RHOA - Real Hawks of Atlanta.

you watch that $hit.  

[AHF]

16 minutes ago, shakes said:

What I got from that great post is that basically everything I've been saying here is accurate.

 

Find the above especially interesting.  It was just a few weeks ago that I started a topic stating that the biggest problem with our team is the 3 white guys.  That topic was highly censored/edited by the mods.   I wonder if that topic being modded like that caught the eye of some Hawks players.

 

But the main point is just how right I was.   Those 3 are the biggest problem on the team.  I give Gallo a pass for the most part because he's old.  But Bogi and Huerter are a joke, two of the softest players I've ever seen.   They should be getting blasted on here every game for their piss poor defensive efforts and general lack of give a F on that side of the ball.

 

 

You'll note that not a single bit of your basketball criticism was edited - only the race references.

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, shakes said:

yea sounds like total BS to me.

I agree.

One thing i'll say about players supposedly lurking here is i'll say stuff here that i would never put on twitter.  And maybe it's an illogical distinction but i'm not calling out a guy on twitter because there's way too much of that anyway there and it's very public.   Here i just assume is a somewhat closed off space, even though it isn't really.   

[thecampster]

32 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Hawks seem to mirror the married couple who are staying together for the sake of the children, not because they love each other.

Hawks have a black coach and the majority of their players.  Yet, we hear that many feel that our white players are getting a pass because of their color.  If this is really true, the only thing to do is to trade them all this summer for black players.  

Trae needs to change his tune from "me" to "we."  You know, teamwork!

Hey @Gray Mule,

Let me clarify this and its a potential landmine to discuss so I'll tread lightly.  The main criticism here isn't that the organization or fanbase is giving certain players a pass, but the media. That there is some sort of reporting bias going on and players feel slighted.  How true or untrue that is isn't going to be decided in this forum but its been felt and probably is worth noting when you see what percentage of the rotational players in Atlanta fit that demographic makeup as opposed to other cities. Its coincidence (IMHO) but it hasn't gone unnoticed.  There has been an issue in Atlanta for a long time in bringing suburban fans in (I remember days when the radio signal barely escaped the perimeter and I'd be in and out of signal at night delivering pizzas). History is not lost internally and team level politics plays a part. Whether this is real or not is not really the issue. That its been discussed at a player level is the story. Again, clarity is that there is a perceived media bias toward our white players and giving them a pass.  

Measuring, deciding how to present this.  Consider Bogi. He's played in 83 regular season games since getting here, missing 46 games. He's missed 1/3 of the games he's played and was downright bad in 20 he played in. Bogi's been good (offensively) in about 1/2 of the games we've played since he's been here. Due to Covid, he had a horrendous start to his Atlanta career. But this season, he had a similar very slow start. This season, he's scoring 13 ppg on 42.5% shooting, 36.8% from 3.  Now, he's not a rookie or even on a rookie contract. He's making 18 million a year and was gifted a starting spot coming in that Cam thought was for he and Huerter to fight for. Bogi/Huerter getting the 2 guard start can easily be seen by the players as a political ploy playing to the suburbs. So when Bogi plays bad for a series of games in a row (season starts) or plays terrible positional defense (that joker just can't move his feet to get in front of his man and cut off the lane and always gets crossed over to the strong hand), it devalues any message the coaching staff projects.

 

Let me address this Capela thing. Capela is not a good positional defender. He's a blocks threat but he is not a good positional big. He is late to give help regularly and leaves his man way too often not trusting his guards and wings. He floats out to the 3 point line occasionally leaving our undersized guards in big switches and his main saving grace is he and John have a good defense by teamwork vibe going.  Capela does certain things well but defense starts with positioning and bodying up your man and Clint is not good at either. I haven't decided if Clint's failings are a symptom of our poor wing footwork or just him being undersized. So I'm not sold on Clint said it so it must be true. Every member of this team (save maybe Wright/Hunter) needs to look in the mirror and go back to school in the summer working exclusively on positional defense, footwork, staying in front of your man.

Edited February 16, 2022 by thecampster

[Atlantaholic]

I think Bogi's defense has been a lot better after coming back from injury. I'd wager he's been about a net neutral on that end after coming back. Last night in Cleveland he probably had his best game on defense. 

[shakes]

11 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm talking about on offense, but take fouls aren't a bad play at all.  There's a reason every team does them but that's not really the point.  There are much bigger issues with Bogi's D.  All i'm saying is Kevin's is marginally better and he's been so much worse on offense lately.

considering my comment was only about the take fouls I would say it was exactly the point.

 

And no, take fouls are NOT good when you the other team is on a 2 on 4 or a 2 on 2.   And leading the league in take fouls is not exactly something to be proud of and it definitely points to a larger problem with that player.