Hawks locker room is not healthy after "quiet" trade deadline

[shakes]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

You'll note that not a single bit of your basketball criticism was edited - only the race references.

that's true.  Good point.     But now it sounds like the race part of it is very relevant if we believe the OP.

[Spud2nique]

9 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

even though it isn't really.   

It’s a safe space, tell us how you’re feeling? It doesn’t go beyond these doors  

[AHF]

On the larger discussion, it is really disappointing to see the team pointing fingers at each other instead of working together to try to get back to where they left off last year.  This team is the same group of people so that level of dysfunction (assuming what is being told to Sothron is accurate) is just a huge let down for what we all hoped for from this year's squad.  I guess given the underachieving results and the number of games where the team was struggling and out of sync, this seems perfectly plausible.  

The comments from Diesel and others about winning curing all ills and losing poisoning the well are definitely real as well.  Hopefully, the team wins some games and the players embrace the roles they need to play to help this team forward for the rest of the season.  Could end up going the opposite way of being a vicious cycle if the dysfunction rises to the top and we lose games and people get increasingly frustrated with each other.  

We need Nate to provide a steady hand and get people on the same page even if not everyone agrees on everything.  At the end of the day, you can debate the direction to go but someone needs to make the decision and everyone needs to get in line to make that happen.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, shakes said:

that's true.  Good point.     But now it sounds like the race part of it is very relevant if we believe the OP.

I didn't read the OP to see that the players want to see people called out on the basis of race.  I read it to mean that some players saw Bogi, Huerter and Gallo as not receiving the same amount of criticism and thereby getting a free pass.

On the Squawk, people are always going to be welcome to praise or criticize players on the basis of their basketball and that was the core of your posts.  I think that basketball discussion is the right focus.

[kg01]

Typical Hawks.

Hawks are the friggin Frankie Muniz or Macacauley Culkin of the league.  Were once a cute, precocious lil' story that warmed everybody's widdle hearts.

Well now they're in their 30's, have a ratty 5 o'clock shadow, are on their 3rd "marriage" - this time to a skechy instagram "model", and haven't had a job in years.  They live in a crappy apartment but are a couple months away from gettin' evicted and to make ends meet they're doing autograph signings and appearances on the 'strip'.  No, not the Vegas strip.  They're doing the strip malls and strip clubs career plan.

Yeesh, life comes at ya fast......

[macdaddy]

5 minutes ago, shakes said:

considering my comment was only about the take fouls I would say it was exactly the point.

 

And no, take fouls are NOT good when you the other team is on a 2 on 4 or a 2 on 2.   And leading the league in take fouls is not exactly something to be proud of and it definitely points to a larger problem with that player.

We suck at transition D.   I guarantee he's not unilaterally deciding to do this.  This is a strategy that the team (and all teams) are using. 

If too many take fouls is the main knock on Bogi then I'll 'take' it.  

[Wretch]

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

As for the problems on the team, here's how I see it.

Trae is the alpha dog player, but he is NOT the leader of the team.  He never has been.  And as I said earlier in the season, I think there's been a power struggle going on in that locker room between Trae and John Collins as to who is the vocal leader of the team.  Trae has even said in interviews that he is not much of a "talker", and would rather just go out on the court and do it.  JC is the opposite.  I see him as trying to be the vocal leader.  He sometimes passively takes shots at Trae ( as well as Nate ), when they mention the turnovers.   I'm sure that rubs Trae the wrong way, especially when some of those turnovers are a result of Trae trying to make a difficult pass to a big like JC.

The problem with JC being the leader that can hold people accountable, is that he has obvious flaws in his game as well.  That has been talked about extensively here, but it really comes to the forefront when he faces elite players.  He wants to take that next step offensively, but he has more to work on his game, before being able to be that trusted #2 option.

Bogi is also in the mix here too.  You'll see the Hawks at times when Bogi feels that he MUST shoot the ball, regardless of the situation, instead of just playing his role.  Bogi presents leadership qualities, but once again, he has his flaws as a player and that prevents him from being that critical voice in the locker room.

Contrary to popular belief, while it helps that guys on a sports team get along well with each other, it's not a prerequisite. We're not the 1990s Chicago Bulls by any stretch of the imagination, but those guys weren't a close group off the floor.  Jordan was an ass that most players didn't care for ( personality wise ).  But his talent was undeniable and they respected that.  I think Trae doesn't take it personally that certain people may or may not like him.  All he wants to do is win, so he'll still pass people the ball and get it to them in the right spots.

HOWEVER . . . Trae trusts his own ability more than he trusts his teammates, or even his coaching staff.

 

It's interesting how Solo was seen as being the calming force that the team misses.  His game is garbage, but he was like the wise "old head" on the team that could talk to everyone, and everyone could talk to him.  He's been on championship teams, so he knows the characteristics of one.

With the issues going on behind the scenes, I now see why these guys don't necessarily talk to each other out on the court.  At times, it seems as if everyone is doing their own thing, and they're just out there playing, instead of communicating with each other.  Collins at least tries to do this.  I think he is best suited to be the emotional leader of THIS version of the Hawks.  But his game needs to start showing up in the biggest moments.  Get that key block or rebound.  Get that hustle put back basket.  Make the big shot when you get the ball.

That gives you credibility not only with your star player, it sets the example for the rest of the team. 

[kg01]

Who knew the Hawks lockerroom was the only place less functional than all you fightin' on the squawk?

[macdaddy]

Just now, kg01 said:

Who knew the Hawks lockerroom was the only place less functional than all you fightin' on the squawk?

I thought you quit on this team?   Gettoutahere!

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

I thought you quit on this team?   Gettoutahere!

He’ll never as long as I’m here. You know I can’t be left alone in here, camp 🏕 would get his feelings hurt.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Spud2nique

[Spud2nique]

18 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Hey @Gray Mule,

Let me clarify this and its a potential landmine to discuss so I'll tread lightly.  The main criticism here isn't that the organization or fanbase is giving certain players a pass, but the media. That there is some sort of reporting bias going on and players feel slighted.  How true or untrue that is isn't going to be decided in this forum but its been felt and probably is worth noting when you see what percentage of the rotational players in Atlanta fit that demographic makeup as opposed to other cities. Its coincidence (IMHO) but it hasn't gone unnoticed.  There has been an issue in Atlanta for a long time in bringing suburban fans in (I remember days when the radio signal barely escaped the perimeter and I'd be in and out of signal at night delivering pizzas). History is not lost internally and team level politics plays a part. Whether this is real or not is not really the issue. That its been discussed at a player level is the story. Again, clarity is that there is a perceived media bias toward our white players and giving them a pass.  

Measuring, deciding how to present this.  Consider Bogi. He's played in 83 regular season games since getting here, missing 46 games. He's missed 1/3 of the games he's played and was downright bad in 20 he played in. Bogi's been good (offensively) in about 1/2 of the games we've played since he's been here. Due to Covid, he had a horrendous start to his Atlanta career. But this season, he had a similar very slow start. This season, he's scoring 13 ppg on 42.5% shooting, 36.8% from 3.  Now, he's not a rookie or even on a rookie contract. He's making 18 million a year and was gifted a starting spot coming in that Cam thought was for he and Huerter to fight for. Bogi/Huerter getting the 2 guard start can easily be seen by the players as a political ploy playing to the suburbs. So when Bogi plays bad for a series of games in a row (season starts) or plays terrible positional defense (that joker just can't move his feet to get in front of his man and cut off the lane and always gets crossed over to the strong hand), it devalues any message the coaching staff projects.

 

Let me address this Capela thing. Capela is not a good positional defender. He's a blocks threat but he is not a good positional big. He is late to give help regularly and leaves his man way too often not trusting his guards and wings. He floats out to the 3 point line occasionally leaving our undersized guards in big switches and his main saving grace is he and John have a good defense by teamwork vibe going.  Capela does certain things well but defense starts with positioning and bodying up your man and Clint is not good at either. I haven't decided if Clint's failings are a symptom of our poor wing footwork or just him being undersized. So I'm not sold on Clint said it so it must be true. Every member of this team (save maybe Wright/Hunter) needs to look in the mirror and go back to school in the summer working exclusively on positional defense, footwork, staying in front of your man.

[shakes]

10 hours ago, terrell said:

So the coaches gave up on trying to get Trae to play defense? Wtf??  Id be pissed if I were the other guys too.. lol. 

 

it goes both ways though.  Having to do literally everything on offense wears on a person physically, even a guy in his 20s I would imagine.  I'm too old to remember firsthand if that's actually true lol.

[Sothron]

31 minutes ago, shakes said:

this is the only part of the post that I don't believe.  I have a hard time believing that Trae or any star player is walking aroudn the locker room telling everyone his stats.   That sounds ridiculous and would require a level of lack of self awareness that I doubt Trae has.

I played college basketball. Every player knows his stats in a game or a season. Trust me. Trae is very proud of his personal stats, when he sets or ties a record and his game stats when he has a good game like last night. Trae is not unique in talking about his stats or when he sets or ties records. John will mention it as well. So does Bogi. There's more but you get the point. Trae is the most talkative about it because, frankly, he's the one putting up the most numbers and records.

My point in mentioning that is that Capela would rather Trae and everyone else talk more about good defensive plays/effort than offensive stats.

[Diesel]

Lockerroom leadership. 

As I have seen, I think that we have "heart and soul" and we have lockerroom leader.   I think the Lockerroom leader is prolly a vet like Lou.   I have watch Lou mentor OO.  I can't imagine that this guy sits in the lockerroom and say nothing.  I take him as a see something, say something kind of guy. 

JC being the heart and soul suggests to me that everybody know that JC is all in when it comes to this team.  He's ATL all the way.  He's the elder statesmen here.  He's the guy that welcomes everybody else to the Hawks team.   That gives him a voice in the lockerroom.   His voice is the one that probably echoes what the coach said.  I can hear him saying "OK guys, you heard coach, we got to...". 

Trae is not a leader yet... he has a very strong voice, but he's not as mature as he needs to be to be the leader. 

Based on everything I have heard, Solo was that guy who had all the respect and was a leader in the lockerroom.  He was the guy who spoke and when he said something, he would be heard by all.  

He was the Rick Flag of the lockerroom. 

 

 

[swanlee]

If this team gets stupid drama going because of egos then they should fail coaches will get fired and players traded. They deserve it if that is the case.

I'd tell the players to grow up, works as a real team and get your shit together. Good chance we miss the playoffs this year, maybe that failure will cause these young guys to suck it up and put ego's aside for what is best for the team

[bleachkit]

47 minutes ago, shakes said:

What I got from that great post is that basically everything I've been saying here is accurate.

 

Find the above especially interesting.  It was just a few weeks ago that I started a topic stating that the biggest problem with our team is the 3 white guys.  That topic was highly censored/edited by the mods.   I wonder if that topic being modded like that caught the eye of some Hawks players.

 

But the main point is just how right I was.   Those 3 are the biggest problem on the team.  I give Gallo a pass for the most part because he's old.  But Bogi and Huerter are a joke, two of the softest players I've ever seen.   They should be getting blasted on here every game for their piss poor defensive efforts and general lack of give a F on that side of the ball.

 

 

Why would you bring race up though? It's inappropriate, and irrelevant. Let's flip the switch. "The biggest problem on the team are the Black players." How would that fly? You can evaluate players without racist vitriol, believe it or not.

[Sothron]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

Losing has this effect.   Honestly, it has to be the whole team who feels like we're not where we should be.  Losing forces people to use the finger to point blame.   That's the nature of losing.  The good news is that our guys are responsive to losing.   I've have seen other teams that lose and have reached a level of acceptance.   I agree with Jay when she said this will either make them stronger or make them fold. 

I'm sure that Travis is doing what he can do to keep the team on track while at the same time keep most players happy. 

In the meanwhile, this team has to come together and win.. like Last night. 

Win the games that nobody expected you to win!  That's been our way. 

All of this is true. 100%.

[Atlantaholic]

3 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I played college basketball. Every player knows his stats in a game or a season. Trust me. Trae is very proud of his personal stats, when he sets or ties a record and his game stats when he has a good game like last night. Trae is not unique in talking about his stats or when he sets or ties records. John will mention it as well. So does Bogi. There's more but you get the point. Trae is the most talkative about it because, frankly, he's the one putting up the most numbers and records.

My point in mentioning that is that Capela would rather Trae and everyone else talk more about good defensive plays/effort than offensive stats.

Whether it is common or not, I can guarantee that's not championship basketball. I have a hard time imagining Giannis or Middleton or Jrue Holliday talking about their numbers. 

[Dynamo]

The Hawks need a Do-over.It should start with the front office,coaching staff and players.

 

[JTB]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Have you forgotten last year?  Collins spoke up in a film session....and it became that he was worried about touches in a contract year. So he can't win either way.  Which if I remember correctly, Capela agreed with.

...then Trae went out in the next two games one vs Charlotte and really stunk it up and appeared to be sulking.

This may be a valid point but I still question how JC went about this in the film session last season. Did he only point out Trae during that session? 

When Trae wasn’t Trae those couple of games and basically gave JC the keys to the castle, did JC admit to the team in the next film session that he’s not that guy offensively? 

 

I think JC is getting pass here from those who believe he’s a good leader. I don’t think he’s a terrible leader I just don’t believe he truly knows how to use his voice. Being outspoken is one thing but getting the respect is another thing.