Official Game Thread: Thunder at Hawks

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

I don't know the issue, but breaking it down a little more:

2pt FG% by Quarter

1st - 55.0% (13th in league)

2nd - 59.1% (6th)

3rd - 50.1% (27th)

4th - 48.3% (29th)

3pt FG% by Quarter

1st - 29.4% (29th)

2nd - 32.9% (24th)

3rd - 33.7% (19th)

4th - 35.0%  (14th)

 

So as the game goes on, the 2pt shot gets worse while the 3pt shot gets better, although it tops out in the 4th at middle of the league good currently (14th). 

Interestingly, the frequency of shots is heavily skewed 2pts (obvious I know) but it gets less so as the game moves on and tops out at 34% 3pt in the 3rd and 4th quarters. It starts at 29% in the 1st and increases to 32% in the 2nd.  

Again, I don't know what the cause it, but I suspect it has a lot to do with other coaches making adjustments as the game wears on and locking down the Hawks late. 

Maybe we're just shooting more threes in the 2nd half. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

What is the issue?

 

This is what got LP eventually fired.  With LP though, we had double digit leads in the 4th quarter, and we'd lose.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

12 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

Why can't this team make 3s from the right side of the court?

I noticed that in the last few games that the 3 point shooting from the top of the arc to the right corner, was atrocious.

Looks like in this game, we were 6 - 19 from 3s on the right side.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 hours ago, benhillboy said:

It certainly wasn’t a good sign when a G-League player in Chris Silva won that “conditioning test” thing before the season.  
 

This season has also been a bad combination of opposing teams hitting desperation threes late in the clock while Trae is missing deep threes early in it.

 

Maybe he needs to shoot DEEPER 3s.

 

 

I keep telling ya'll that the is not a bad shot for Trae.  Just let that dude play his game and let it fly.

LOL . . how is he below 20% on shots from 24 feet, but 40% on shots from 30 feet?

[REHawksFan]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

Maybe we're just shooting more threes in the 2nd half. 

How does that work? Shoot more 3s make higher % on 3s. Shoot fewer 2s, make lower % on 2s? 

If 66% of our 4th quarter shots are 2s and we make near league worst %, but make league avg 3s in the 4th, maybe we should be taking more 3s in the 3rd and 4th quarters? 

I'm not sure that logic holds.

[Diesel]

21 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

How does that work? Shoot more 3s make higher % on 3s. Shoot fewer 2s, make lower % on 2s? 

If 66% of our 4th quarter shots are 2s and we make near league worst %, but make league avg 3s in the 4th, maybe we should be taking more 3s in the 3rd and 4th quarters? 

I'm not sure that logic holds.

We don't have the numbers..nimbers...

Seriously though.

If we go searching for threes in the 3rd and 4th, then per possession, we're shooting less twos.  It can work out to our detriment depending on the numbers...

For instance.

If I shot 4  3 pters in the first half and make 1...  My percentage would be 25%.

If I shot 10 3 pters in the 2nd half and made 3... My percentage would be 30%

So even though I shot a higher percentage on 3s, I have 7 wasted shots vs. 3 wasted shots. 

Now, let's think of that as being deleterious for 2 pters...

So in the first half, I shot 10 2 pointers and made 6...  That would be 60%.

In the 2nd half, I shot 4 2 pters and made 2... that would be 50%.

 

So this is how the numbers could ring out that you have an increase in 3pt% and a decrease in 2pt%...

Does it help?

Well in my example, in the 1st half we scored 15 pts and in the 2nd half we scores 13 points.  So, while our 3pt % goes up and our 2pt % goes down... we have a -2pt swing...

 

[REHawksFan]

11 minutes ago, Diesel said:

We don't have the numbers..nimbers...

Seriously though.

If we go searching for threes in the 3rd and 4th, then per possession, we're shooting less twos.  It can work out to our detriment depending on the numbers...

For instance.

If I shot 4  3 pters in the first half and make 1...  My percentage would be 25%.

If I shot 10 3 pters in the 2nd half and made 3... My percentage would be 30%

So even though I shot a higher percentage on 3s, I have 7 wasted shots vs. 3 wasted shots. 

Now, let's think of that as being deleterious for 2 pters...

So in the first half, I shot 10 2 pointers and made 6...  That would be 60%.

In the 2nd half, I shot 4 2 pters and made 1... that would be 25%.

 

So this is who the numbers could ring out that you have an increase in 3pt% and a decrease in 2pt%...

Does it help?

Well in my example, in the 1st half we scored 15 pts and in the 2nd half we scores 11 points.  So, while our 3pt % goes up and our 2pt % goes down... we have a -4 pt swing...

 

I understand the math. But this doesn't answer the question as to WHY the % drop. What are the Hawks doing that is making the 2pt % fall off late in games?
 

FGA By Quarter

1st - 16.8 (2pt) / 6.8 (3pt) / 23.6 (total)

2nd - 15.6 / 7.2 / 22.8

3rd - 15.3 / 8.0 / 23.3

4th - 14.7 / 7.6 / 22.3

There's not a ton of difference between quarters in terms of the number of attempts. I am suggesting it's the QUALITY of 2pt shot late in games that gets diminished and it largely results from defenses. That's my premise anyway. I don't have any proof that this is the reason EXCEPT that the Hawks are Top 5 in the NBA in TOV in each of the first 3 quarters and fall to 14th in the 4th. So we turn it over more in the 4th which can be a sign of increased defensive pressure. 

[kg01]

18 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What is the issue?

We don't value possessions.  It's why leads disappear and deficits grow.

It's easy to see when the players devalue possessions but the coaching staff contributes as well.

[MarylandHawk]

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

I understand the math. But this doesn't answer the question as to WHY the % drop. What are the Hawks doing that is making the 2pt % fall off late in games?
 

FGA By Quarter

1st - 16.8 (2pt) / 6.8 (3pt) / 23.6 (total)

2nd - 15.6 / 7.2 / 22.8

3rd - 15.3 / 8.0 / 23.3

4th - 14.7 / 7.6 / 22.3

There's not a ton of difference between quarters in terms of the number of attempts. I am suggesting it's the QUALITY of 2pt shot late in games that gets diminished and it largely results from defenses. That's my premise anyway. I don't have any proof that this is the reason EXCEPT that the Hawks are Top 5 in the NBA in TOV in each of the first 3 quarters and fall to 14th in the 4th. So we turn it over more in the 4th which can be a sign of increased defensive pressure. 

Do you think there any correlation with increased minutes Trae and DJ sharing the court more in the 4th quarter with the drop in efficiency?  I think this is the last nut that needs to be cracked. Trae can dominate a fourth quarter with the ball in his hands with great success. DJ can be close to the same. Also, there is ball movement offensive options to keep the others involved or keep riding the hot hand, whoever that might be. I think there still confusion about this and it is causing inefficiency at the end of games. Personally, I would establish ball movement offense early in the game, have DJ and Trae rotate finishing each of the first three quarters without the other and let them play-make at that time. In the fourth quarter I would continue running my ball movement offense until about 4 mins left in the game. I would then run the offense through Trae with DJ on the floor to close out the game.  I think this would clear up the confusion about where shots will come from and make our 4 quarter shooting more efficient. 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, MarylandHawk said:

Do you think there any correlation with increased minutes Trae and DJ sharing the court more in the 4th quarter with the drop in efficiency? 

I think our best numbers for the season is when they share the court with the other starters so I'm a bit skeptical that the two of them playing together is the issue as much as whether teams have downloaded our offense by the 4th quarter and we don't have adjustments to throw at them.

[REHawksFan]

59 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think our best numbers for the season is when they share the court with the other starters so I'm a bit skeptical that the two of them playing together is the issue as much as whether teams have downloaded our offense by the 4th quarter and we don't have adjustments to throw at them.

This is where I am as well. It seems like we start slow, peak in the 2nd quarter, and then it's downhill in the 3rd and off the cliff in the 4th.  And I'm guessing we don't have any adjustments to counter the other teams adjustments. 

The numbers appear to bare that out.