Official Game Thread: Clippers at Hawks

[Spud2nique]

21 hours ago, marco102 said:

Leonard was just so good last night, t

He’s the man.

[Spud2nique]

22 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I missed the game. Just saw the score. How did we play? Looking at the boxscore nothing stood out too much.

Were we moving the ball? Or was it hero stuff? 
 

Thanks @lethalweapon3 as always. 

So were we in it or what? First Hawks game I missed this year.

[Diesel]

10 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

So were we in it or what? First Hawks game I missed this year.

Yeah, we were in it.  Winning in the first half. Kinda.  They put together a late run and went up by 5.   Winning in part of the third.....  but somewhere in that qtr, LAC started leaning on Leonard. I think we came out of +2 for the quarter. 

Here's the thing.  They didn't do anything to stop us.   We didn't look bad on the offensive side of the ball.   However, everytime we scored (especially in the 4th) we'd go on a run and they would just come right back. 

It wasn't missed assignments.  It wasn't because our defense was bad.  It was Leonard hitting them hard ass shots... It was Reggie Jackson getting LUCKY AS F----.   It was Zubac getting the ball too low in the post.  But everything keyed off of Leonard.   When he started working the midrange, our defense had to sag to try to stop him.   Most of the time, Hunter was right there playing picture perfect defense... and Leonard would nonchalantly hit a hard shot.   The thing that got me is that he wouldn't complain.   He may say one thing to the ref, then he'd go back to playing.  I have watched Derozen and I have watched Leonard.   Leonard makes Derozen look like a college player.   And I have never liked either of those guys. 

 PG13 is the most complete player in Basketball.   He started the game just hitting shots and making plays.  He plays solid defense.   Later in the game.. in the 4th, they gave us a glimmer of hope.. because nobody could bring the ball up without turning it over.   We finally get the game within 3 I think... and then Normal freakin Powell with the dagger... or was it Tre Mann.  Shoot.. it was somebody. 

Led me to say.. They have way too many weapons. 

They have a 1st team and a 2nd team and everybody on those teams can shoot and know their roles.  I'm glad that we won't see them again. 

Also, the refs did have fingerprints on this.  They gave LAC some questionable calls.. actually made some very bad calls.. but we got one too.. CC just near kilt Mann on a no call...  And Trae took advantage of him and "tripped" over him to draw the foul.

Trae is the craftiest player in the game. 

 

 

 

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

Led me to say.. They have way too many weapons. 

They have a 1st team and a 2nd team and everybody on those teams can shoot and know their roles.  I'm glad that we won't see them again. 

 

Yeah exactly.  they are a better team with better players.   And they aren't even that highly thought of as a contender.  We played well so this should tell us exactly who we are as a team.  

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

But everything keyed off of Leonard. 

Ya, he’s coming back for a run this year.

 

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I'm glad that we won't see them again. 

My 2 Vegas receipts are pinning us in the finals vs them. That comes true I’m getting a fur.

[Diesel]

Just now, macdaddy said:

Yeah exactly.  they are a better team with better players.   And they aren't even that highly thought of as a contender.  We played well so this should tell us exactly who we are as a team.  

@macdaddy  I think they just went on this 6 game streak to show the league that they can turn it on when they want to.  When Healthy, they have more weapons than everybody.   Even Boston.  The only contender that they have not beaten is the 76ers.  I'm pretty sure that they played them without PG13 or Leonard. 

The thing about that game is that we were right there the whole time.   They didn't pressure us into not being able to score.   They just kept rising up and hitting threes..  And it was by design. 

 

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Ya, he’s coming back for a run this year.

 

My 2 Vegas receipts are pinning us in the finals vs them. That comes true I’m getting a fur.

If we get the 76ers first.  I believe that we can make that happen.

I don't see anybody in the West capable of stopping them at full strength.   To me, Denver, Dallas, and Memphis are jokes.   Golden State has the talent but I don't think they could win a 7 game series.   If the Pels get Zion back and he can play through a series... it would be interesting. 

 

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

@macdaddy  I think they just went on this 6 game streak to show the league that they can turn it on when they want to.  When Healthy, they have more weapons than everybody.   Even Boston.  The only contender that they have not beaten is the 76ers.  I'm pretty sure that they played them without PG13 or Leonard. 

The thing about that game is that we were right there the whole time.   They didn't pressure us into not being able to score.   They just kept rising up and hitting threes..  And it was by design. 

 

Yeah i think we're saying the same thing.  Basically we aren't in the top 20% of the league. 

[Spud2nique]

32 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Denver

I like Denver or the Clipps out west to go to the finals.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Spud2nique

[Diesel]

5 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I like Denver or the Clipps out west to go to the finals.

I like Denver for a second round exit. 

Denver is a team that will rack up regular season wins.. but in the post season, I think they get beat.   If the Lakers play them... BBQd chicken. 

Fans may get what they want this year.

LAC vs. LAL in the WCF....

Followed by 

LAC vs. ATL for the Finals. 

 

[kg01]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Ya, he’s coming back for a run this year.

Per Bawb, he's the winningest individual player ever, in the regular season.  Is that based on winning percentage?  Probably.

[AHF]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

Nate wasn't the one that traded one of our best 3 pt shooters away for Moe Harkless. 

IF NATE IS SO OUT OF TOUCH AND as you said "BEEN OUT OF TOUCH ON THE IMPORTANCE OF 3's FOR YEARS"... then how were we the #2 ranked 3pt% team last year???

Wasn't Nate coaching the Hawks last year?

 

That's  a GM making moves to improve his team's ability.   Not a GM making moves to save LT dollars. 

We were #2 in 3pt% meaning that we were better than everyone in the league except one team.

But we were #18 in 3ptA last year meaning the majority of the league took more 3's and made that a bigger part of their game than we did.

What does that tell you about the coach's priority?

4 hours ago, macdaddy said:

It's not just Nate though.  The team doesn't have good 3 point shooters.   Well it's just another example of our below average bench.  Batum and Powell are both over 40% for the season coming off the Clipper bench. 

I don't disagree that we've been very disappointing.  I don't think TS/LF expected it to be quite this bad.  Trae (38% to 32%) and JC (36% to 26%) have fallen off dramatically.  JHol dropped from ~38% over the last 3 years to 34% this year.  JJ dropped from 38% last year to 28% this year.   

The bright side is:  DM is actually having a solid season from deep.  Bogi has been missing for much of the year but has improved our perimeter shooting since his return (even if he is overall struggling).  AJ has been great.  Hunter has been solid, just a bit below his % last year.  Bogi and AJ are our perimeter gunners off the bench and they should actually be pretty solid players for that role if they had played all year (obviously AJ barely played at the beginning of the year and Bogi was hurt).

From a roster construction standpoint, we definitely took a hit to our perimeter shooting getting rid of Huerter and Gallo (although Gallo might be out with injury if he were here) but I suspect the team thought that we were going to be better than we have been.

The "good news" is the Hawks have shot 37% from deep in January so maybe the team is coming around a bit.  (Bad news is I'm very worried whether Trae and especially JC will show sustained quality numbers on their 3pt% the rest of the season.)

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

We were #2 in 3pt% meaning that we were better than everyone in the league except one team.

But we were #18 in 3ptA last year meaning the majority of the league took more 3's and made that a bigger part of their game than we did.

What does that tell you about the coach's priority?

I don't disagree that we've been very disappointing.  I don't think TS/LF expected it to be quite this bad.  Trae (38% to 32%) and JC (36% to 26%) have fallen off dramatically.  JHol dropped from ~38% over the last 3 years to 34% this year.  JJ dropped from 38% last year to 28% this year.   

The bright side is:  DM is actually having a solid season from deep.  Bogi has been missing for much of the year but has improved our perimeter shooting since his return (even if he is overall struggling).  AJ has been great.  Hunter has been solid, just a bit below his % last year.  Bogi and AJ are our perimeter gunners off the bench and they should actually be pretty solid players for that role if they had played all year (obviously AJ barely played at the beginning of the year and Bogi was hurt).

From a roster construction standpoint, we definitely took a hit to our perimeter shooting getting rid of Huerter and Gallo (although Gallo might be out with injury if he were here) but I suspect the team thought that we were going to be better than we have been.

The "good news" is the Hawks have shot 37% from deep in January so maybe the team is coming around a bit.  (Bad news is I'm very worried whether Trae and especially JC will show sustained quality numbers on their 3pt% the rest of the season.)

In reality though, only Trae and Bogi are what i'd call killer shooters.   On this whole team those 2 are the only real scary 3 point shooters.  (well and AJ but he isn't there yet in terms of being a 20-30 minute player)   And that's not nearly enough.  

Like you said, Kevin and Gallo were the top 2 3 point shooters on this team both in terms of % and attempts (outside of Trae).  We cast them aside and didn't replace them with comparable shooters.   They took 10 3s a game for us last year. 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

In reality though, only Trae and Bogi are what i'd call killer shooters.   On this whole team those 2 are the only real scary 3 point shooters.  (well and AJ but he isn't there yet in terms of being a 20-30 minute player)   And that's not nearly enough.  

Like you said, Kevin and Gallo were the top 2 3 point shooters on this team both in terms of % and attempts (outside of Trae).  We cast them aside and didn't replace them with comparable shooters.   They took 10 3s a game for us last year. 

I think most of us hated the Huerter trade and knew unloading Gallo was coming due to $$, not basketball reasons (same KH, I suppose but this was more of a fait accompli).  DM's lack of perimeter shooting (and overall mediocre TS%) was a concern of mine coming in but you were getting a big upgrade over Huerter as a defender as your tradeoff.  The biggest reason in my mind that we dropped from #2 last year in 3pt% to the bottom the league this year is the bad seasons by our remaining players, though.  AJ shoots 4 a game a 40% versus 5.6 attempts for KH at 39% last year so that is reasonable as far as replacements go.  Gallo is a straight loss but I kind of view that as a done deal given his injury.

[Phunkabilly]

6 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

He trips over his own words and is a suck up brown noser to me. Aka

 

Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

 

Lol I thought he didn’t know ish about basketball. Now he’s dippin his toes in baseball? 
 

STAY IN YO LANE KID.

Out of curiosity, why do you think he's a suck up brown noser?  His points have always come across as well thought-out, fair and logical to me.  I don't ever recall him getting irrationally too high or too low on anybody.  

And I could be wrong, but I think he's been doing the Braves podcast for longer than the Hawks one... I know I've been listening to his Braves podcast for longer at least, but I may have been late to the party on the Hawks podcast.

I will give you the point about tripping over his words, though.  It seems like his mouth can't keep up with his brain, so he ends up rushing his speech most of the time.

[kg01]

18 hours ago, Sothron said:

We need an angry face emoji for reaction to posts because that's what I want to use. Not at you but in agreement with you. It is BS they start their guys against us but rest everyone against Cleveland.

I hate to root against players getting their money but what's going on now can't continue.

Teams seem well aware players are simply working to extend their careers.  All the while, teams are cashing in on whatever revenue they can squeeze off the players.

Winning/losing is secondary.  Meanwhile, fans are the fools footing the bills.  Somethings gotta give.

I'd hoped the TV deal would show some pushback due to all the marquee(sic) matchups getting tarnished by players sitting.  But it's sounding like even they're ok with it, so long as advertisers keep paying.  And, again, fans ultimately foot the bill.

What's the fix, man!?  Saffron, whats the fix?! 

[Sothron]

23 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I hate to root against players getting their money but what's going on now can't continue.

Teams seem well aware players are simply working to extend their careers.  All the while, teams are cashing in on whatever revenue they can squeeze off the players.

Winning/losing is secondary.  Meanwhile, fans are the fools footing the bills.  Somethings gotta give.

I'd hoped the TV deal would show some pushback due to all the marquee(sic) matchups getting tarnished by players sitting.  But it's sounding like even they're ok with it, so long as advertisers keep paying.  And, again, fans ultimately foot the bill.

What's the fix, man!?  Saffron, whats the fix?! 

Simple. Contracts are still guaranteed money...but only on a per game basis. Meaning if you want that 25 million a year you have to play 82 games to do it. 

I'd realistically lower that to 75 games a year. You have to play 75 games to get the full annual contract. If you don't then you lose a full game check for each game missed. Only exception would be if an injury cost you at least two weeks consecutively of game time. 

That stops the "load management" horse crap that's killing the game. 

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Sothron said:

Simple. Contracts are still guaranteed money...but only on a per game basis. Meaning if you want that 25 million a year you have to play 82 games to do it. 

I'd realistically lower that to 75 games a year. You have to play 75 games to get the full annual contract. If you don't then you lose a full game check for each game missed. Only exception would be if an injury cost you at least two weeks consecutively of game time. 

That stops the "load management" horse crap that's killing the game. 

I can dig it but I may have a better, more likely, idea.

Base incentives on totals, not averages.  Top scorer is whoever scores the most points, not who averages the most.  Brings playing reduced minutes back into play. 

That way, instead of sitting the game outright, players can play reduced minutes as a means of saving their bodies.  Similar to how some older, star soccer players may only play the 2nd half.

As it is, players rather sit whole games because partial minutes hurt their averages.

Also, institute games-played minimums on allstar selection and award eligibility. 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Saffron,

I’m using some as we speak  yum