Official Game Thread: Hawks at Hornets (7 PM EST) -- The Season Opener!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

@TheNorthCydeRises.....you get your wish of Dre at the 2.

Thoughts ?

 

As Lil Boosie's daughter once said . . . "I told ya'll . . ."

 

 

Of course, they both hate each other guts now.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[Peoriabird]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

If I never seen Trae and read RealGM as a Basketball fan, I would think Trae is a worse Monta Ellis. 

If I never Dre and read HS as a Basketball fan, I would think Hunter was a wing verison of Lawrence Funderburke. Just look the part but out there not really doing shit. 

In reality, Dre is a legit good. In reality, Trae is a legit offensive juggernaut. Man, ya'll need to never mention Dre. Ya'll sound like idiots when you speak on him. I'll say the same when it comes to Trae on RealGM. Idiots saying Trae don't add any value on offense, just chucking shit and turning the ball over while dominating the rock. Acting like he's Allonzo Tier or Tony Worten or Hawks legend, Jordan Crawford. Stupid ass mfers, stfu

Hunter has become some type of weird obsession with a hand full of posters. They constantly dog him whether plays well or not. They even dog him when he doesn't play. It's just strange to me.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Hunter has become some type of weird obsession with a hand full of posters. They constantly dog him whether plays well or not. They even dog him when he doesn't play. It's just strange to me.

It's extremely strange. I can understand Trae, he doesn't look the part of a star and that Will always stand out with casuals but Dre, it don't make sense. It's not like he's bad or just garbage.

I still believe a lot of it is offense related and he doesn't have a smooth style of play which so fanbases value more than others. 

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It's extremely strange. I can understand Trae, he doesn't look the part of a star and that Will always stand out with casuals but Dre, it don't make sense. It's not like he's bad or just garbage.

I still believe a lot of it is offense related and he doesn't have a smooth style of play which so fanbases value more than others. 

I think it is also has a lot to do with his numbers and how the team performs with him on the floor.  His metrics are way worse than your assessment of  his play so when people look up our team and see that Hunter barely had more Win Shares than JJ and AJ last season and ranked 13th on the team in WS/48; that Hunter was 14th on the team in PER; that Hunter was 14th on the team in BPM; and that Hunter was somehow in a way that defies my understanding worst on the team (20th) in VORP that reinforces the idea that he isn't terribly productive.

Then you move to more team numbers and he falls into the same pitfalls with a 12th best ORTG and 15th best DRTG on the team to pair with  his on/off numbers where (last year) the team scored more points per possession when he was on the bench and gave up fewer points per possession when he was on the bench, etc.  

Go to your favorite stats over with RAPTOR and he was second worst (among the 9 qualifying players) in both Overall RAPTOR and WAR.  This isn't a new trend.  (He has been worst in RAPTOR and WAR every season except when he had a hot start and then went out for the year and last year where he was 2nd to last).  I'm not bothering but I am sure his other metrics look the same in prior seasons.

So the numbers HATE him and the team has been worse when he has been on the floor than when he was on the bench the last few years.  If you combine that with what you seem to argue is an appearance that he doesn't look great when you watch him, that seems to set him up for people to be pretty skeptical of or dismissive of his production.  

It really isn't very strange at all.  It should be expected with a profile like that.

I do think his position defense doesn't show up in the numbers and so they miss a big part of his value but it would really help if he could start generating some turnovers on defense or doing other things that would catch the eyes of fans in a good way because I think he has the physical tools and BBIQ to absolutely do more of that.  He is also someone who could benefit in terms of offensive production from the shift to a Quin system.  He has been pretty good from an efficiency standpoint scoring in two of the last 3 years (and not terrible in the third year) so him getting more open shots should lead to better shooting and more points over the long term even if he will never be a really explosive scorer.

I'm looking forward to seeing what he brings to the table this year.  And I'm really hoping the team does better this year when Trae is off the floor (which I think is very relevant to Hunter's +/- numbers given how the lineups in which he played without Trae performed).

[Peoriabird]

37 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It's extremely strange. I can understand Trae, he doesn't look the part of a star and that Will always stand out with casuals but Dre, it don't make sense. It's not like he's bad or just garbage.

I still believe a lot of it is offense related and he doesn't have a smooth style of play which so fanbases value more than others. 

Also, it is just hard for wing players to play with Trae Young and now Murray. They are forced to watch Trae Murray dribble the air out of the ball until the defense forces an awful pass or shot. It's probably not fun for anybody to play with that kind of player and then absorb the blame for those guys poor on court decisions.

[Final_quest]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think it is also has a lot to do with his numbers and how the team performs with him on the floor.  His metrics are way worse than your assessment of  his play so when people look up our team and see that Hunter barely had more Win Shares than JJ and AJ last season and ranked 13th on the team in WS/48; that Hunter was 14th on the team in PER; that Hunter was 14th on the team in BPM; and that Hunter was somehow in a way that defies my understanding worst on the team (20th) in VORP that reinforces the idea that he isn't terribly productive.

Then you move to more team numbers and he falls into the same pitfalls with a 12th best ORTG and 15th best DRTG on the team to pair with  his on/off numbers where (last year) the team scored more points per possession when he was on the bench and gave up fewer points per possession when he was on the bench, etc.  

Go to your favorite stats over with RAPTOR and he was second worst (among the 9 qualifying players) in both Overall RAPTOR and WAR.  This isn't a new trend.  (He has been worst in RAPTOR and WAR every season except when he had a hot start and then went out for the year and last year where he was 2nd to last).  I'm not bothering but I am sure his other metrics look the same in prior seasons.

So the numbers HATE him and the team has been worse when he has been on the floor than when he was on the bench the last few years.  If you combine that with what you seem to argue is an appearance that he doesn't look great when you watch him, that seems to set him up for people to be pretty skeptical of or dismissive of his production.  

It really isn't very strange at all.  It should be expected with a profile like that.

I do think his position defense doesn't show up in the numbers and so they miss a big part of his value but it would really help if he could start generating some turnovers on defense or doing other things that would catch the eyes of fans in a good way because I think he has the physical tools and BBIQ to absolutely do more of that.  He is also someone who could benefit in terms of offensive production from the shift to a Quin system.  He has been pretty good from an efficiency standpoint scoring in two of the last 3 years (and not terrible in the third year) so him getting more open shots should lead to better shooting and more points over the long term even if he will never be a really explosive scorer.

I'm looking forward to seeing what he brings to the table this year.  And I'm really hoping the team does better this year when Trae is off the floor (which I think is very relevant to Hunter's +/- numbers given how the lineups in which he played without Trae performed).

My issue exactly.  No data suggests he is an impact player.  

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Also, it is just hard for wing players to play with Trae Young and now Murray. They are forced to watch Trae Murray dribble the air out of the ball until the defense forces an awful pass or shot. It's probably not fun for anybody to play with that kind of player and then absorb the blame for those guys poor on court decisions.

Crazy that our wing players have all quickly resigned contracts with us if they hate playing with Trae.  

Bogi resigned without even testing the market (UFA).

DM resigned without even testing the market (UFA).

Hunter resigned without even testing the market (RFA).

Huerter resigned without even testing the market (RFA).

 

The only guy who tested the market was JC (and he resigned as well).  Who do you think is the best player that hasn't wanted to resign with Atlanta since Trae has been here?

[Peoriabird]

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think it is also has a lot to do with his numbers and how the team performs with him on the floor.  His metrics are way worse than your assessment of  his play so when people look up our team and see that Hunter barely had more Win Shares than JJ and AJ last season and ranked 13th on the team in WS/48; that Hunter was 14th on the team in PER; that Hunter was 14th on the team in BPM; and that Hunter was somehow in a way that defies my understanding worst on the team (20th) in VORP that reinforces the idea that he isn't terribly productive.

Then you move to more team numbers and he falls into the same pitfalls with a 12th best ORTG and 15th best DRTG on the team to pair with  his on/off numbers where (last year) the team scored more points per possession when he was on the bench and gave up fewer points per possession when he was on the bench, etc.  

Go to your favorite stats over with RAPTOR and he was second worst (among the 9 qualifying players) in both Overall RAPTOR and WAR.  This isn't a new trend.  (He has been worst in RAPTOR and WAR every season except when he had a hot start and then went out for the year and last year where he was 2nd to last).  I'm not bothering but I am sure his other metrics look the same in prior seasons.

So the numbers HATE him and the team has been worse when he has been on the floor than when he was on the bench the last few years.  If you combine that with what you seem to argue is an appearance that he doesn't look great when you watch him, that seems to set him up for people to be pretty skeptical of or dismissive of his production.  

It really isn't very strange at all.  It should be expected with a profile like that.

I do think his position defense doesn't show up in the numbers and so they miss a big part of his value but it would really help if he could start generating some turnovers on defense or doing other things that would catch the eyes of fans in a good way because I think he has the physical tools and BBIQ to absolutely do more of that.  He is also someone who could benefit in terms of offensive production from the shift to a Quin system.  He has been pretty good from an efficiency standpoint scoring in two of the last 3 years (and not terrible in the third year) so him getting more open shots should lead to better shooting and more points over the long term even if he will never be a really explosive scorer.

I'm looking forward to seeing what he brings to the table this year.  And I'm really hoping the team does better this year when Trae is off the floor (which I think is very relevant to Hunter's +/- numbers given how the lineups in which he played without Trae performed).

But yet 3 coaches prefer him over fan favorites like Bey.

[kg01]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

Crazy that our wing players have all quickly resigned contracts with us if they hate playing with Trae.  

Bogi resigned without even testing the market (UFA).

DM resigned without even testing the market (UFA).

Hunter resigned without even testing the market (RFA).

Huerter resigned without even testing the market (RFA).

 

The only guy who tested the market was JC (and he resigned as well).  Who do you think is the best player that hasn't wanted to resign with Atlanta since Trae has been here?

Curious to hear his answer to this.  Likely it'll be some gobbledygook about you attacking him. Smh 

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

Crazy that our wing players have all quickly resigned contracts with us if they hate playing with Trae.  

Bogi resigned without even testing the market (UFA).

DM resigned without even testing the market (UFA).

Hunter resigned without even testing the market (RFA).

Huerter resigned without even testing the market (RFA).

 

The only guy who tested the market was JC (and he resigned as well).  Who do you think is the best player that hasn't wanted to resign with Atlanta since Trae has been here?

Huerter is doing so much better without Trae in his life

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Huerter is doing so much better without Trae in his life

Sarcasm? 

[AHF]

20 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Huerter is doing so much better without Trae in his life

I guess we'll see this season.  He started all last season and did better at the start of last season but not really much better than as a starer in Atlanta for the majority of the year:

Huerter 2021-22 Atlanta Starter Numbers

Since the font is small:

fg% .463% / 3pt% .413% / ft% .868% / PPG 12.9 / RPG 3.4 / APG 2.9 / SPG 0.82 / BPG 0.40

Huerter January through April 2023 Sacramento Numbers

 

Huerter always struggled here coming off the bench when he didn't play with Trae.  (I.e., he was MUCH better in Atlanta with Trae than without him).  We'll see how Huerter does in Sacramento this season when he isn't starting.  First game was a belly flop but that is a SSS issue.

But either way that misses the point that Huerter wanted to keep playing in Atlanta when he became a FA.  Same as Hunter, Bogi, DM, etc.  If it is was so terrible for wings to play with Trae, that wouldn't be the case.

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

It's extremely strange. I can understand Trae, he doesn't look the part of a star and that Will always stand out with casuals but Dre, it don't make sense. It's not like he's bad or just garbage.

I still believe a lot of it is offense related and he doesn't have a smooth style of play which so fanbases value more than others. 

Not strange at all, Hunter plays with no urgency, low effort, and generally just looks apathetic out there.  His personality and interviews match this — as do his impact metrics so it all makes perfect sense.  Hes the exact opposite archetype of what makes someone a fan favorite.

[AHF]

35 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

But yet 3 coaches prefer him over fan favorites like Bey.

I guess we'll see who is preferred over time.  Hunter did get the most minutes last season:

Hunter 31 mpg

Bogi 28 mpg

Bey 25 mpg

With Bogi, I'd expect that age and injury history will have him with the fewest minutes this season.  In the first game, Hunter played 31 and Bey played 29 so not much of a gap but that is a single game.

Hunter also earns the most with $20M over $19M for Bogi although that isn't much of a gap.  (Bey is the unknown.)

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

I think it is also has a lot to do with his numbers and how the team performs with him on the floor.  His metrics are way worse than your assessment of  his play so when people look up our team and see that Hunter barely had more Win Shares than JJ and AJ last season and ranked 13th on the team in WS/48; that Hunter was 14th on the team in PER; that Hunter was 14th on the team in BPM; and that Hunter was somehow in a way that defies my understanding worst on the team (20th) in VORP that reinforces the idea that he isn't terribly productive.

Then you move to more team numbers and he falls into the same pitfalls with a 12th best ORTG and 15th best DRTG on the team to pair with  his on/off numbers where (last year) the team scored more points per possession when he was on the bench and gave up fewer points per possession when he was on the bench, etc.  

Go to your favorite stats over with RAPTOR and he was second worst (among the 9 qualifying players) in both Overall RAPTOR and WAR.  This isn't a new trend.  (He has been worst in RAPTOR and WAR every season except when he had a hot start and then went out for the year and last year where he was 2nd to last).  I'm not bothering but I am sure his other metrics look the same in prior seasons.

So the numbers HATE him and the team has been worse when he has been on the floor than when he was on the bench the last few years.  If you combine that with what you seem to argue is an appearance that he doesn't look great when you watch him, that seems to set him up for people to be pretty skeptical of or dismissive of his production.  

It really isn't very strange at all.  It should be expected with a profile like that.

I do think his position defense doesn't show up in the numbers and so they miss a big part of his value but it would really help if he could start generating some turnovers on defense or doing other things that would catch the eyes of fans in a good way because I think he has the physical tools and BBIQ to absolutely do more of that.  He is also someone who could benefit in terms of offensive production from the shift to a Quin system.  He has been pretty good from an efficiency standpoint scoring in two of the last 3 years (and not terrible in the third year) so him getting more open shots should lead to better shooting and more points over the long term even if he will never be a really explosive scorer.

I'm looking forward to seeing what he brings to the table this year.  And I'm really hoping the team does better this year when Trae is off the floor (which I think is very relevant to Hunter's +/- numbers given how the lineups in which he played without Trae performed).

....and he was the #4 pick, the current highest pick on our team. There is an expectation that comes with that regardless if we are 4 years later.

[terrell]

19 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

We went on the magical run in 2021 AFTER we lost Hunter for the majority of the season. We dusted the Knicks with him, but our offense never really vibed. We upset the Sixers and went toe to toe with the Bucks WITHOUT Hunter.

His name is constantly on our lowest performing 5-man units.

I understand his talent and potential, but every version of the Hawks with Hunter in the lineup have under- achieved.

He may be that dude deep down, but it’s just not happening with us for whatever reason.

Hawks all time record with Deandre Hunter in the lineup: 94-113, .454%
Hunter out of the lineup: 55-46, .545%

"He may be that dude deep down"

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by terrell

[theheroatl]

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Not strange at all, Hunter plays with no urgency, low effort, and generally just looks apathetic out there.  His personality and interviews match this — as do his impact metrics so it all makes perfect sense.  Hes the exact opposite archetype of what makes someone a fan favorite.

this is it

[Plainview1981]

9 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Extremely bad Hunter takes on here are equaling the extremely bad Trae takes on RealGM. [Insults removed]

 

Corbin played nothing like Hunter. He was a playmaking wing and that drive and do nothing else. Couldn't shoot a lick. Defensively, he was good for his era. Could guard twos and threes. If there is a player of recent who reminded me of Corbin was Marty Collins. Marty just couldn't defend as well. Corbin was a tad more athletic than him and stronger. Corbin was strong whereas Collins was fluffy and not the strongest. 

Hunter is a three level scorer, has elite defensive versatility, high BBIQ. Man, ya'll talk about this man like he's buns but he's good and consistently good. What Trae is to RealGM is what Hunter is to HS. Unnatural hate, it doesn't make any sense. 

On a contending team or a team with ambitious, Hunter will be sort of a "glue" player. Where he can just shoot his 3's and defend without anybody needing much else from him.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Plainview1981

[bleachkit]

Trae's biggest problem is that he misses too many shots. Im not sure how you can fix that.