Official Game Thread: Kings at Hawks

[Vol4ever]

1 minute ago, JTB said:

Sure but if it’s so easy why wouldn’t Quinn just do this then?

why is Trae always the scapegoat for what we can’t do offensively for some of our posters. I’m sure if Hunter got a set play and dropped buckets Trae would happily let him get on a roll.

Trae isn't the problem on offense until he starts shooting 35 footers in the 4th qtr if we have the lead.  It destroys momentum.  We have no low post scorers, not one on this team and that is a big problem.  

[terrell]

Might as well bring him up.. See what he can do.. What do we have to lose? smh

[JeffS17]

6 minutes ago, terrell said:

Might as well bring him up.. See what he can do.. What do we have to lose? smh

Between him and AJ we have to develop one into starter level talent.

[terrell]

27 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

Trae isn't the problem on offense until he starts shooting 35 footers in the 4th qtr if we have the lead.  It destroys momentum.  We have no low post scorers, not one on this team and that is a big problem.  

Thats called frontrunning..

Every time we go on a nice run and gets somewhat of a big lead, he comes down and jacks up a long bomb that usually turns into points for the other team...

I see it coming from a mile away..smh

[Sothron]

I've already said this in this thread. And I mentioned in the trade thread.

This team does not function. I would move DJM, Capela, Hunter and Bogi for young players and assets. Build around Trae, JJ, OO, Kobe and the young players coming in. Take our lumps and hope we hit another pick in the lottery because this team is a lottery team even if we don't move the veterans.

Moving those players open up spots and salary for other players and hopefully finds a team that fits Quin's system better ESPECIALLY on defense. 

[ABH]

2 hours ago, terrell said:

Might as well bring him up.. See what he can do.. What do we have to lose? smh

He sucks

[BrazilianHawk]

They did it again. What's new? Happy New Year, Atlanta Generals! 

Refs hate Trae, the team suffers!

 

[Phunkabilly]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=atlanta+hawks+record+without+de'andre+hunter+2023-2024

I'm gonna trust these numbers a lot more than a 7 game sample size this year.

It's fine to defend your favorite players... I think we all do that.  The part that really irks me and I believe with many on this board is that you constantly berate Dre's critics even when they show you that he has not contributed to winning basketball by virtually every conceivable metric out there.  I appreciate the insider information that you bring and your unique perspective on a lot of topics, but the "you won't ever understand because I'm smarter than you" attitude on a lot of these debates (particularly Dre debates) is really off-putting.

[NBASupes]

6 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Legit question:  Who is a current NBA comparison to 12?

• Bad on/off stats
• Bad advanced stats
• But is a high value player to his team

You would have to be a big wing to be comparable and there aren't any big wings like Dre right now. 

Easily, it would be younger Nick Collison from the 2000s. You would have watch his games and he played center which was the most critical position in the 2000s. Center in the 2000s was the big wing today. It was the ultimate position and hard to find players for it. 

Nick wasn't the reason his teams won but his teams sure felt it when he was gone. They aren't an exact match as Dre is even more critical 

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, Phunkabilly said:

I'm gonna trust these numbers a lot more than a 7 game sample size this year.

It's fine to defend your favorite players... I think we all do that.  The part that really irks me and I believe with many on this board is that you constantly berate Dre's critics even when they show you that he has not contributed to winning basketball by virtually every conceivable metric out there.  I appreciate the insider information that you bring and your unique perspective on a lot of topics, but the "you won't ever understand because I'm smarter than you" attitude on a lot of these debates (particularly Dre debates) is really off-putting.

 

We stunk year 1 with Dre and Trae. If you look at Trae overall record with the Hawks, it sucks too. 

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/atlanta-hawks-record-with-and-without-trae-young

You know why it sucks, because we sucked early on heavy as we were tanking. 

Also we didn't run a modern offensive or defensive scheme with Nate. His scheme funnel everything to the center making the center the focal point like in the 2000s. Quin runs a modern scheme on both ends. Where versatility is king. This is why we feel it when Dre is gone in particular. I know we don't understand basketball on this site. But ya'll just gotta trust me. When I say shit about players, that shit is always on point. I ain't just hating or stanning for no reason. 

Dre's value is massive to the modern NBA. He got paid what he got paid because the market demanded for it. His injuries are hurting his value and that's unquestionable. That said, he's a lot better than some here think he is and it's not even close. 

I honestly think if Dre critics on here wasn't so strong in being wrong, I wouldn't really care.

[NBASupes]

If there is a comparable player as opposites, it's John Collins @TheNorthCydeRises. 

JC used to have tremendous metrics and I wouldn't want to give him shit and wanted him traded and found him to be useless as well as his prototype. 

That's a player that has what you love and I couldn't bare his present and though he was useless. I still think he's useless. 

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, JTB said:

Why is his role gloryless ? Because of Trae ?

So because this role doesn’t produce satisfying SF stats it’s hard to fill “it” ?….then you’re going back to the love of a  SF prototype build of size, length, strength, discipline and Hunter doesn’t use all these qualities all the time.

JJ didn’t even get a chance to play SF since Hunter has been out so not sure why you brought him into this. It’s been mainly Bey and Matthew’s but we all know bey isn’t good at defense and the only thing he can provide is energy but you can’t complain at effort.

What exactly is the “it” ?…. Playing defense, spotting up for 3s, and only avg 12 or so points?

It’s not fair to take out advanced stats to fit an agenda. It doesn’t matter what the role of the player is. We can’t use advanced stats to justify 1 player sucking but not use it to justify another player who also sucks.

This! This is exactly how I see it. Dre is an ok player and he is needed but the way this team is constructed 1 starter out of the lineup is pure hell on this team. They all have different roles but the role they serve is so impactful that there’s no one else on the roster who can backfill or make up 50% of what the starting unit does…it’s not just Dre it’s all the starting lineup.

Take away Trae - we have no playmakers. As others pointed out already Murray cannot run point a full game. JJ is this teams second best passer and every once in a while Bogi gives us a little razzle dazzle but really Trae is still by a very wide margin the head of the snake for this offensive unit.

Take away Bogi - We have no other consistent pure 3pt snipers.

Take away Murray - now we are limited on who can actually score vs 1 on 1 defense. We have Bogi and JJ to try making it up for it in Murray’s absence but not a likable substitute.

Take away Capela - now we can’t rebound shit. We already suck on the boards but now we really are terrible and will easily get crushed.

 

i don’t need to list Hunter since it’s been covered but point is all these players have roles that are so important and impactful that 1 starter injury hurts this team because the backup cannot fill the shoes of the starter.

Huh?

If you don't understand the game, just say it. 

JJ ain't a smart player. He's a highlight. He's has very good vision. He's even capable of several good defensive possessions as a on ball defender but he gets lost constantly. Rarely communicates. Looking for stocks instead of focusing on his assignment. He does a lot of what Smoove used to do but he's not anywhere near as flawed as Smoove while not being anywhere near as talented as Smoove either. Like Smoove, he's a tweener whereas someone like Dre is a big wing. Bey probably is a better 3 than JJ and he's not a 3 either. Wes Matthews is a big 2 having to play the 3 because of injuries. 

If you don't understand the game, just say it. You keep not listening and coming back with dumb replies. I told you what he does over a thousand times. If you don't value it, it's because you don't understand it. That's a you problem.

Not understanding the game is why we always fall into an abyss about this squad. Always will and have been the case. 

Bro, almost every player to add or takeaway has strengths and weaknesses. 

Add Trae, offensive juggernaut. Take away Trae, fit for scheme improves, Defense massively improves as DJ is superior defensively to Trae as a 1. 

Add Bogi, sniper and effortless scoring. Takeaway Bogi. Defense massively improves and he's way too damn streaky within games. 

Etc etc etc

We don't like doing much thinking on this site but we love to talk. 

 

[NBASupes]

6 hours ago, Vol4ever said:

Trae isn't the problem on offense until he starts shooting 35 footers in the 4th qtr if we have the lead.  It destroys momentum.  We have no low post scorers, not one on this team and that is a big problem.  

The lack of ability to score an easy basket is the massive difference between us and Sacramento. Sabonis can score easy baskets. He just needs to be able to handle contact a lot better in the playoffs as it's way more physical than the RS. Capela handles contact better. 

[NBASupes]

Trae needs to go to Phoenix because the offensive scheme is ass and they can protect him on offense with KD who's superior to Trae and Beal is a better scorer when healthy. 

Trae in Atlanta always gets exposed in the 4th quarter. Always. He's not a #1 option and never will be

Atlanta runs a real offensive scheme with Quin. I'll rather DJ play PG for us as a starter. We just need a legit #1 option scorer and we need a legit big. I don't know how we get that big but bigs are generally easy to get if you are willing to overpay. I wish there was a way we could get Paolo Banchero

Edited December 30, 2023 by NBASupes

[AHF]

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He's the solution to the massive holes we currently have. He's not a solution for us being a contender or even a pretender but we don't even have that player on the roster. 

Dre’s ever injured status is the reason for that hole.  Guy can’t stay healthy and we single spooled him as our only wing defender on the roster.

Also your argument makes no sense on on/off.  On the one hand you claim he is the reason our record is terrible without him.  (I agree as he is the only big wing defender that he is absolutely needed.  But it bears mentioning we have been missing multiple other player during most of the games he has missed which compound the problem.). But then you claim the team is just as good or better when he is off the floor.  That doesn’t add up.  Over a short stretch of games that can work but not multiple seasons.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=atlanta+hawks+record+without+de'andre+hunter

[AHF]

MODERATOR NOTE:

Insulting fellow posters is going to get you suspended or put on moderator preview.  This goes for everyone.  Don’t do it.  Make your basketball points but don’t go on to take shots at other posters.

[dalamchops]

7 hours ago, terrell said:

Thats called frontrunning..

Every time we go on a nice run and gets somewhat of a big lead, he comes down and jacks up a long bomb that usually turns into points for the other team...

I see it coming from a mile away..smh

he does regardless of the score, he wasted 2 huge possession w/ a stepback 3 and a long bomb when kings went from down 2 to up 2

[AHF]

Just to make it clea what I mean about the impact of Hunter not playing.  Our woeful bench wings of Mat(t)hews, Lundry, and Forrest have gone from playing just over 10 mpg this year to just under 27 mpg in games where Hunter has been out.  A real GM would give us a roster where none of them play but elevating them to starter status is a recipe for losing games.  Hunter is a decent but not great player but he is worlds better than any of them and we miss him badly because there is no depth there.  (This is exacerbated with Bey being a really bad defender.)

I hope Supes is right that all intelligent NBA Execs know Hunter delivers “massive value” at a hard to fill position at a fair contract price because I look forward to the Hawks reaping a “massive” return for him if we go down the road of trading him.  I would definitely deal our first round pick this year for a young wing defender under team control for years who delivers massive value.  GMs will do the same because this is the position of scarcity in the NBA today.   (I agree that nobody delivers massive value when they are hurt yet again but would also say I don’t see any case for saying Hunter has delivered what I would term massive value so my actual expectations on trade return are much less optimistic).

My first hope remains that Hunter stays healthy and blossoms here.  We invested a lot in that draft and haven’t gotten a lot in return yet.  If Hunter is going to explode in a good way I want to see that happen in Atlanta.

[Spud2nique]

11 hours ago, kg01 said:

What more do you need to see, Landry?  Do your job. 

Who took this fool classes for him at Stanford. Being patient is one thing but now he’s just being a moron. He doesn’t make a trade he’s fired.

[Spud2nique]

11 hours ago, capstone21 said:

… I hate todays era of basketball.

The authenticity is gone and all they do is repetitive pick and rolls to set up 3’s. Boring as hell. Individuality is gone, creativeness.. ugh