2020-21 The Current Ask Supes

[gurpilo]

Detroit just released Cory Joseph, that was one of my preferred options at PG.

Regarding Portis I would not be mad if we sign him but I rather sign Dieng, Cousins, Drummond, Whiteside, Mcgee, Noel...

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

I rather sign Dieng, Cousins, Drummond, Whiteside, Mcgee, Noel...

Wow really all these guys over the Bobber? I’d definitely take Bobby over Whiteside and Cousins that’s for sure. Also prolly over McGee and Noel they are skinny we need a girthy one to complement the already skinny Capela.

[terrell]

2 hours ago, gurpilo said:

Sorry Sabonis is 4 years 75m$, would you really pay Collins 5 years 120?

That's 5 more million a year. And Sabonis signed his contract in what year?

[RandomFan]

12 minutes ago, terrell said:

That's 5 more million a year. And Sabonis signed his contract in what year?

One whole year ago. And $5.25M per year more than an All-Star is kind of a big deal, especially for someone most likely to never sniff an All-Star selection in Collins, even if I think Sabonis is overrated. That money is basically worth a rotation level backup player on a playoff roster. 

We're gonna keep JC and yes the Sabonis contract is an underpay, but we can still treat it as an interesting data point that holds weight without being dismissive. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by RandomFan

[marco102]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Odds we extend Kevin early as well?

 

 

Pretty high. I believe you can get Kevin on a really good deal this summer.  He showed a lot in the playoffs before I believe he just ran out of gas. 

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

One whole year ago. And $5.25M per year more than an All-Star is kind of a big deal, especially for someone most likely to never sniff an All-Star selection in Collins, even if I think Sabonis is overrated. That money is basically worth a rotation level backup player on a playoff roster. 

We're gonna keep JC and yes the Sabonis contract is an underpay, but we can still treat it as an interesting data point that holds weight without being dismissive. 

He signed the contract in 2019, cap was $109 million. He was an early extension so Indy got a below market deal.

[marco102]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

He signed the contract in 2019, cap was $109 million. He was an early extension so Indy got a below market deal.

October 21, 2019 to be exact.

[RandomFan]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

He signed the contract in 2019, cap was $109 million. He was an early extension so Indy got a below market deal.

Yes but the point was it only kicked in last year, so in essence it is only starting one year earlier than JC's will. And let's not forget the cap is only around $3M more now than it was then. But like I said, this is one data point in a large discussion; it should carry the weight it deserves, no more, no less. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by RandomFan

[terrell]

12 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

One whole year ago. And $5.25M per year more than an All-Star is kind of a big deal, especially for someone most likely to never sniff an All-Star selection in Collins, even if I think Sabonis is overrated. That money is basically worth a rotation level backup player on a playoff roster. 

We're gonna keep JC and yes the Sabonis contract is an underpay, but we can still treat it as an interesting data point that holds weight without being dismissive. 

Lonzo is about to get over 20 million a year...

[RedDawg#8]

32 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

One whole year ago. And $5.25M per year more than an All-Star is kind of a big deal, especially for someone most likely to never sniff an All-Star selection in Collins, even if I think Sabonis is overrated. That money is basically worth a rotation level backup player on a playoff roster. 

We're gonna keep JC and yes the Sabonis contract is an underpay, but we can still treat it as an interesting data point that holds weight without being dismissive. 

When Sabonis signed his deal he had yet to become an All Star (and to me he still isn't)

He was a 3rd year BENCH player who just came off of averaging 14ppg.

Apples to apples JC blew Sabonis' production away when they were at the same time of their negotiations, which factors in to their different asking prices and ability to leverage in negotiations.

It's easy to look in retrospect and say it was an underpay, but Sabonis really had not proven anything but potential at that point.

Edited August 1, 2021 by RedDawg#8

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Yes but the point was it only kicked in last year, so in essence it is only starting one year earlier than JC's will. And let's not forget the cap is only around $3M more now than it was then. But like I said, this is one data point in a large discussion; it should carry the weight it deserves, no more, no less. 

When teams are able to negotiate early extensions it's usually on the side of a team friendly deal or a designated rookie max deal like Trae is about to get.

Reminder that the cap was projected to be $115 last year but due to Covid remained at $109. This years projected  $112 is $9 mil short of the Pre-Covid projection for 2021-22 of $121 million.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

When Sabonis signed his deal he had yet to become an All Star (and to me he still isn't)

Good footnote.

[RandomFan]

14 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

When Sabonis signed his deal he had yet to become an All Star (and to me he still isn't)

He was a 3rd year BENCH player who just came off of averaging 14ppg.

Apples to apples JC blew Sabonis' production away when they were at the same time of their negotiations, which factors in to their different asking prices and ability to leverage in negotiations.

It's east to look in retrospect and say it was an underpay, but Sabonis really had not proven anything but potential at that point.

I don't disagree with any of this, well, slightly with the blowing away production wise, but not enough to make it a point of contention. As I said above, we need to treat it as the lone data point it is in a much larger discussion: no more, no less. 

[thecampster]

Okay I have the parameters for what JC is being offered. I have about 50% confidence in this info.

JC 's team believes they will receive offers between 4 years 100 million (starting at 22.5 million) to 4 years 112 million (starting at 25 million).

The parameters for a deal with the Hawks should be right in that ball park with a 5th year player option at 30 - 33 million. 

The team and JC's agent are operating in good faith to be allowed to match in private any offer he is getting. The team and JC's group have a working agreement its in JC best interest to hear other offers and be sold on other team's other perks besides salary (for example SA plays in Texas where there are no state income taxes, or NY/California teams have more access to endorsement deals). The relationship is not strained and there is potential for JC to give a hometown discount. He does like Atlanta, his teammates, Nate and ownership. The team is allowing him the free agent experience but the odds are he's back.

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, gurpilo said:

Detroit just released Cory Joseph, that was one of my preferred options at PG.

Regarding Portis I would not be mad if we sign him but I rather sign Dieng, Cousins, Drummond, Whiteside, Mcgee, Noel...

My note on Cousins.  Cousins would make opposing centers have to work a lot harder defensively when he's in the game. This would open the lane for Trae, free up wing shooters more often and pull the Center out of the lane more often, making the backup point guards/wings jobs easier.

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Okay I have the parameters for what JC is being offered. I have about 50% confidence in this info.

JC 's team believes they will receive offers between 4 years 100 million (starting at 22.5 million) to 4 years 112 million (starting at 25 million).

The parameters for a deal with the Hawks should be right in that ball park with a 5th year player option at 30 - 33 million. 

The team and JC's agent are operating in good faith to be allowed to match in private any offer he is getting. The team and JC's group have a working agreement its in JC best interest to hear other offers and be sold on other team's other perks besides salary (for example SA plays in Texas where there are no state income taxes, or NY/California teams have more access to endorsement deals). The relationship is not strained and there is potential for JC to give a hometown discount. He does like Atlanta, his teammates, Nate and ownership. The team is allowing him the free agent experience but the odds are he's back.

That's a trash ass deal. I would hope he would do a descending deal since we are young and everyone needs to eat. This deal makes it hard for everyone to eat.

[bleachkit]

54 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

One whole year ago. And $5.25M per year more than an All-Star is kind of a big deal, especially for someone most likely to never sniff an All-Star selection in Collins, even if I think Sabonis is overrated. That money is basically worth a rotation level backup player on a playoff roster. 

We're gonna keep JC and yes the Sabonis contract is an underpay, but we can still treat it as an interesting data point that holds weight without being dismissive. 

Indy got a great deal on Sabonis. We are getting a not so great deal on JC. Sucks, but it is what it is. As long as Ressler does not mind paying beaucoup luxury tax fairly soon, then it's all good.

[thecampster]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That's a trash ass deal. I would hope he would do a descending deal since we are young and everyone needs to eat. This deal makes it hard for everyone to eat.

Signing him 4 years doesn't mean he stays 4 years. I also ran some projections that would allow us to sign all 5 and only barely move into the LT. It really all depends on Cam. If he takes off, it gets clumsy but we're also NBA champs so they won't mind paying the LT.  This is one of those things that are better to handle 1 FA season at a time.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Signing him 4 years doesn't mean he stays 4 years. I also ran some projections that would allow us to sign all 5 and only barely move into the LT. It really all depends on Cam. If he takes off, it gets clumsy but we're also NBA champs so they won't mind paying the LT.  This is one of those things that are better to handle 1 FA season at a time.

Everyone could break out and we still don't win a title. It's not easy to win titles in this league 

[thecampster]

Let me clarify that previous statement.

Gallo comes 100% of the books after 22/23 and probably won't finish his contract here.

Capella comes off the books after 22/23 and will probably resign here at a bit of a discount.

Bogi has a player option for 23/24 and will probably reject it to negotiate a new deal and will probably leave.

 

Cam and Hunter come up for new contracts in 23/24. So as long as Gallo is moved by the end of 21/22, we can sign all 5 without much of impact.