Lloyd Pierce has been Dismissed

[Bonkers]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Isn't this what JC called for after the Cavs and Knicks game in the film session.....and IIRC he was thoroughly bashed on here by some about him being selfish wanting more touches and only caring for his next contract.   Then Trae went all funky.....so did Lloyd cater to Trae having the ball and ignore the ball movement request? 

 

 

[hawkzlova123]

2 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

I've got my J.J. Fad karaoke at the ready just in case we do!

~lw3

U never cease to amaze

Just now, hawkzlova123 said:

U never cease to amaze

I think lethal is just a  

[REHawksFan]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Isn't this what JC called for after the Cavs and Knicks game in the film session.....and IIRC he was thoroughly bashed on here by some about him being selfish wanting more touches and only caring for his next contract.   Then Trae went all funky.....so did Lloyd cater to Trae having the ball and ignore the ball movement request? 

 

 

I don't know if that's a direct reference to the JC stuff or not.  But I read it as all off ball movement as in running sets instead of just passing the ball around the perimeter until the clock ends and jacking a shot.  Lately, it hasn't even been Trae with the ball on several possessions because teams are denying.  

[bleachkit]

3 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

I can’t imagine a coach ever being against off ball movement, especially without a physically outstanding 3-level scorer you have to clear space for.  He sure payed lip service to Trae being more active off ball when asked prior to the season.  Yeah this dude was/ is off his rocker.

Some of these cheap shots taken at Lloyd are giving me eye roll. They have begged Trae to do more off ball stuff, he either can't or he won't. To put that on CLP is just laughable.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, REHawksFan said:

I don't know if that's a direct reference to the JC stuff or not.  But I read it as all off ball movement as in running sets instead of just passing the ball around the perimeter until the clock ends and jacking a shot.  Lately, it hasn't even been Trae with the ball on several possessions because teams are denying.  

This was after losing 2 4th quarter leads vs the Knicks and Cavs. We can't pick and choose when it applies.

Quote

Collins talked about the need to get into offensive sets more quickly and to limit all those early shot-clock attempts that leave his teammates on the outside looking in. He shared his desire to be more involved and expressed a desire for more ball involvement and flow on offense.

There was no back-and-forth between the two, but the pointed criticism caught the attention of the room. And Young, sources say, made it clear to others later that he strongly disagreed with Collins’ assessment.

 

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, hawkzlova123 said:

If we kick heat A*%% ton8te just hire his supersonic @*^

No.  You can't make major decisions based on small sample sizes.  You have to let Nate finish the season and evaluate what he has done with the roster from this point on.  This team is going to ebb and flow naturally.  

[REHawksFan]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

This was after losing 2 4th quarter leads vs the Knicks and Cavs. We can't pick and choose when it applies.

 

I mean.....if Trae is on LP's side with that then, imo, he's wrong.  They need MORE off ball movement not less.  I don't personally have a problem with Trae taking shots especially late in the game as that's what your star should do in certain situations.  But in general, I want Trae to move more off the ball to create open looks, easier looks, rather than just stand there watching.  Same with all the players.  Move without the ball.  That's what I assumed the quote was about.  

It seems obvious that Trae was at odds with Pierce so I guess I'm confused as to why that would be if you are saying LP was taking Trae's side and not the rest of the team?  In that case I would think Trae would side with LP.  But the article is clear that it is Trae, JC, Cam, and others that have issues with LP.  

[Bonkers]

8 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Some of these cheap shots taken at Lloyd are giving me eye roll. They have begged Trae to do more off ball stuff, he either can't or he won't. To put that on CLP is just laughable.

I don't even understand what's going on anymore

This is just crazy to me

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, REHawksFan said:

I mean.....if Trae is on LP's side with that then, imo, he's wrong.  They need MORE off ball movement not less.  I don't personally have a problem with Trae taking shots especially late in the game as that's what your star should do in certain situations.  But in general, I want Trae to move more off the ball to create open looks, easier looks, rather than just stand there watching.  Same with all the players.  Move without the ball.  That's what I assumed the quote was about.  

It seems obvious that Trae was at odds with Pierce so I guess I'm confused as to why that would be if you are saying LP was taking Trae's side and not the rest of the team?  In that case I would think Trae would side with LP.  But the article is clear that it is Trae, JC, Cam, and others that have issues with LP.  

I'm just saying be mindful of all the reports - the truth is always somewhere in the middle.

[REHawksFan]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

I'm just saying be mindful of all the reports - the truth is always somewhere in the middle.

Good point.  A good reminder when we have a ton of new articles and rumors floating around.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, aali34 said:

 

I'd bet Bruno might be one of the unnamed players.

 

[macdaddy]

Didn't anyone see Rondo and Mays pass the ball back and forth literally for 20 seconds while no one else on the court moved.   It ain't all on Trae.   It's an offensive design that wasn't working.   I thought with new talent this year we'd see something different but we really didn't. 

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, aali34 said:

David Robinson being receptive to it laid the groundwork for their culture. Tim Duncan took it to a higher level. Hard to be upset at tough love when the franchise player has no issues with it.

And Popovich absolutely never throws his players under the bus publicly like Pierce does.  He takes responsibility himself for the teams failures and attributes success to the players.  It's how good coaches operate.  Pierce never takes accountability and constantly talks about effort and intensity and other bullshit.

You can't have a strict, authoritarian, style of coaching if you aren't going to be accountable for the results of the games.

Imagine if the CEO of a company reports losses for the quarter and then talks about how the sales guys just didn't put in the effort out there, or the marketing team got lazy in December.  It's asinine but he did that routinely. 

[bleachkit]

11 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I mean.....if Trae is on LP's side with that then, imo, he's wrong.  They need MORE off ball movement not less.  I don't personally have a problem with Trae taking shots especially late in the game as that's what your star should do in certain situations.  But in general, I want Trae to move more off the ball to create open looks, easier looks, rather than just stand there watching.  Same with all the players.  Move without the ball.  That's what I assumed the quote was about.  

It seems obvious that Trae was at odds with Pierce so I guess I'm confused as to why that would be if you are saying LP was taking Trae's side and not the rest of the team?  In that case I would think Trae would side with LP.  But the article is clear that it is Trae, JC, Cam, and others that have issues with LP.  

CLP wont be the last coach to lose his job trying to fix Trae, believe that.

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

And Popovich absolutely never throws his players under the bus publicly like Pierce does.  He takes responsibility himself for the teams failures and attributes success to the players.  It's how good coaches operate.  Pierce never takes accountability and constantly talks about effort and intensity and other bullshit.

You can't have a strict, authoritarian, style of coaching if you aren't going to be accountable for the results of the games.

CLP didn't throw his players under the bus. Good grief. His post game press conferences were not much different than other coaches. And as for Pop, the first thing Pop said to Tony Parker was "you are the worst defender I have ever seen." Literally that was the first thing Pop told Tony Parker. Imagine if CLP said that same thing to Trae? We would all be saying what an asshole CLP is, and that's not how you talk to players, blah, blah. 

[sturt]

[benhillboy]

32 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Let's be a bit fair about Trae for a second. His defense has gotten much better this year. We've seen him do a better job of staying in front of his man and even take a few charges. His limbs are too short and his step too slow to be a great defender but the effort has been much better from both he and Huerter this year. (Now if you want to criticize his shooting too much we can talk).

We need to watch a game together so I can realize what you’re seeing.  Positionally I guess he can be decent.  But there isn’t a starting PG going that puts less pressure on dribbles, whose arms effect passing lanes less, or challenges shots that lead to defensive rebounds less.  I haven’t seen him dive on the floor once this season and he’s driven past with amazing ease by most BUs, doesn’t even try to wall them off.  Communication is iffy; he isn’t loud, demonstrative, or talkative.  Arguably the least effective transition defender in the league.  There’s no one in the league he can box out as he has no shoulder mass to speak of and barley jumps off the floor to do anything.
 

I usually don’t attribute someone’s advanced metrics to other players but in this case it’s evident his improvement there is very dependent upon Clint and Dre as the team defensive rating has driven off a cliff going 100 mph since Dre went down.  I never see him in a crouched stance, which doesn’t really matter because like you said he takes choppy steps and never swipes at the ball.  He acts as if he’s disqualified if he fouls more than twice when he should be using about 4 of them situationally.  His size naturally makes him a compromised rotator.  He’s just too limited physically to be known as a mediocre effort guy.  Show me some film of him assisting a successful double team or getting a steal from the blind side of a Big on a dig: I’ve never seen it.  His steal and deflection numbers have always been dreadful for a 30 minute guy and taking a charge once every 3 games isn’t notable.  He’s like the compete anti-Kyle Lowry, who does ALL of these things ALL of the time.
 

He simply doesn’t lock in.  I knew the few flashes of fighting over screens and pushing his man after a pass early on in the season were fleeting.  Very simply he needs a coach who will demand these things until he hates him, then loves him again after seeing the impact.  The days of a Larry Brown type brow-beating Iverson into becoming a better player are long gone though.

[REHawksFan]

7 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

CLP wont be the last coach to lose his job trying to fix Trae, believe that.

So you saying LP got fired by trying to fix Trae? Sorry, I don't believe that for a second. 

[Cwell]

Most of this stuff coming out now is some of the same things that a few people, including myself, have been pointing out for months. Yet we were treated like we didn’t know what we were talking about. Funny how that works smh

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

CLP didn't throw his players under the bus. Good grief. His post game press conferences were not much different than other coaches. And as for Pop, the first thing Pop said to Tony Parker was "you are the worst defender I have ever seen." Literally that was the first thing Pop told Tony Parker. Imagine if CLP said that same thing to Trae? We would all be saying what an asshole CLP is, and that's not how you talk to players, blah, blah. 

It's not what you say it's how you say it.   It's not our fault he lost the locker room.