Ben Simmons A Hawk? I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[Diesel]

27 minutes ago, sturt said:

But, wait. Your words were explicitly, "if he stopped playing today."

You get that, right?

Are you asserting that Cheeks, Moncrief, McGinnis would have been "possibly locks" (again, using your words) for the HOF on the basis of only their first 4 years???

Now c'mon. Not even you believe that. That's why you're saying that, but then actually using their entire careers and the trajectory of their first four to try to buttress your conclusion.

 

Pardon the observation, but post after post after post, what you keep ignoring that I/we keep saying is that there is a very reasonable question right now as to whether Simmons has hit a speed bump in his career that ends up modifying his trajectory... and thus, modifying what his entire career looks like, ie, significantly less than your comparables.

None of your responses except for one insofar as I've caught it have spoken to the possibility that this episode ends up sending his career on an appreciably less attractive trajectory... and of course, saying in effect at least as I interpreted it, "It's okay if BS isn't good enough to put us over the top--Schlenk will just draft more rookie-scale contract super talents in the back end of the draft to make up for it."

*sigh*

Again look at Cheeks, Moncrief, and McGinnis accolades.  Right now... Simmons have the same or more than them.   Right now in his 4th year.   Not to mention guys like Drazen Petrovich, Zelmo Beaty, Spencer Haywood, etc..  Right now... his resume' equals are tops these guys in what they did in the NBA.  So how do you keep him out of the Hall??

 

[Diesel]

23 minutes ago, sturt said:

Is it, though?

Or is it, "in light of them missing Danny Green, and us missing Dre and Cam, and assuming Simmons' headcase fights within himself, I like our chances if both were 100%,"

Of what I've read, it's definitely the latter, and not what you said. But maybe I need to read more.

What I see is people saying.. Philadelphia is not a problem for us now.   That suggests that we have surpassed them... and many of the times it's stated it's stated with derision.   As if we beat them easily. 

By the way.  with Danny Green out there, they would have been more defensive.   Just saying. 

What I saw against Philly is why I was for Nate getting the nod as coach.  Nate Outcoached Doc.  You put that same Philly team in the hands of Eric Spolestra and we get the gentlemen's sweep. 

 

[macdaddy]

10 minutes ago, Diesel said:

What I see is people saying.. Philadelphia is not a problem for us now.   That suggests that we have surpassed them... and many of the times it's stated it's stated with derision.   As if we beat them easily. 

By the way.  with Danny Green out there, they would have been more defensive.   Just saying. 

What I saw against Philly is why I was for Nate getting the nod as coach.  Nate Outcoached Doc.  You put that same Philly team in the hands of Eric Spolestra and we get the gentlemen's sweep. 

 

Yeah no.  i don't agree with that!

You sound like a Philly fan regarding Danny Green.   Dude wasn't helping. He played the first 2 games and shot 30% and was getting smoked out there.  I was sorry to see him go down.

I agree that we in know way have surpassed the Sixers.  We have to prove that.   But they have to prove more.   I mean what have Simmons and Embiid ever done other than not get to the ECF repeatedly?

[Diesel]

17 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Yeah no.  i don't agree with that!

You sound like a Philly fan regarding Danny Green.   Dude wasn't helping. He played the first 2 games and shot 30% and was getting smoked out there.  I was sorry to see him go down.

I agree that we in know way have surpassed the Sixers.  We have to prove that.   But they have to prove more.   I mean what have Simmons and Embiid ever done other than not get to the ECF repeatedly?

So you think you put Danny Green on the floor for his offense?

That's another story. 

I agree... we do have more to prove.   Our fight is not just with Philly.  It's also with Miami, Brooklyn, Milwaukee, and yes.. Chicago. 

If we can't get it done vs. those guys then last year goes down in the books as a fluke. 

 

[sturt]

36 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Again look at Cheeks, Moncrief, and McGinnis accolades.  Right now... Simmons have the same or more than them.   Right now in his 4th year.   Not to mention guys like Drazen Petrovich, Zelmo Beaty, Spencer Haywood, etc..  Right now... his resume' equals are tops these guys in what they did in the NBA.  So how do you keep him out of the Hall??

 

Diesel, repeating yourself doesn't somehow make your point valid... it's as-if you didn't even read the rest of the post, truly...

  

 

 

[macdaddy]

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

So you think you put Danny Green on the floor for his offense?

That's another story. 

I agree... we do have more to prove.   Our fight is not just with Philly.  It's also with Miami, Brooklyn, Milwaukee, and yes.. Chicago. 

If we can't get it done vs. those guys then last year goes down in the books as a fluke. 

 

 

 

Danny Green did squat against Trae except get out smarted. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Since we're talking injuries:

Hunter and Cam out during the entire Philly series.

Clint had a bad achilles All year

Okongwu played thru a torn labrum

Bogi injured his knee in game 4 of the Philly series. Went from playing 40+ minutes to 23 minutes - and you could tell.

[macdaddy]

18 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Since we're talking injuries:

Hunter and Cam out during the entire Philly series.

Clint had a bad achilles All year

Okongwu played thru a torn labrum

Bogi injured his knee in game 4 of the Philly series. Went from playing 40+ minutes to 23 minutes - and you could tell.

Yeah other than the money for Simmons I just don't see any reason you'd want to throw a curveball into the roster we've built so far when they've all performed extremely well but we've never seen them all healthy together.    And with the chemistry we saw on this team last year why bring in someone who's pouting at home (even though i understand his issues).

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, sturt said:

 

Diesel, repeating yourself doesn't somehow make your point valid... it's as-if you didn't even read the rest of the post, truly...

  

 

 

Sturt it's hard for me to understand what you don't get.

Simmons.....  ROY, 3 allstar appearances.  1 ALL NBA Team.

 

Beaty (HOF):...   2 NBA Allstar Appearances.   NBA all rookie first team. 

Haywood (HOF)... 4× NBA All-Star (1972–1975), 2× All-NBA First Team, 2× All-NBA Second Team

Bernard King (HOF)...4× NBA All Star, 2× All-NBA First Team, NBA All-Rookie Team

So if Simmons is already comparable with these Hall of Famers.    What is going to keep him out??

I'm not talking about if he plays another season.  I'm talking about if he was in a plane crash... (God Forbid) and his name came up for consideration... What can you say that will keep him out of the hall??  Especially considering you have these and others in there. 

 

[JeffS17]

Simmons needs to go to Minnesota or Sacramento or mayybbbeeee Portland.  The first two he could help get into the playoffs and maybe drum up some excitement for those franchises.  Portland would be a massive gamble swapping out CJ but god knows that back court could use a defender. 

[sturt]

20 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I'm not talking about if he plays another season. I'm talking about if he was in a plane crash... (God Forbid) and his name came up for consideration.

1. More in the vein of reality, it wouldn't be a plane crash, but perhaps a career-ending injury (God forbid).

2. OH. So it's worse than I'd understood, then. You're saying that

• Cheeks, Moncrief and McGinnis would have made the HoF on the basis of their first four years (yes?)
• And therefore, so would Simmons... you're not even saying, then, what I thought you were saying, ie, that based on Simmons' trajectory being so similar to theirs... but that they would have made the HoF had any of them had a career ending injury after 4 yrs (yes?)
• And that Simmons has already equaled if not exceeded anything that Beaty, Haywood or King achieved (yes?)

If I've got that right... then, like I said... different planets... if not different solar systems.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

1. More in the vein of reality, it wouldn't be a plane crash, but perhaps a career-ending injury (God forbid).

2. OH. So it's worse than I'd understood, then. You're saying that

• Cheeks, Moncrief and McGinnis would have made the HoF on the basis of their first four years (yes?)
• And therefore, so would Simmons... you're not even saying, then, what I thought you were saying, ie, that based on Simmons' trajectory being so similar to theirs... but that they would have made the HoF had any of them had a career ending injury after 4 yrs (yes?)
• And that Simmons has already equaled if not exceeded anything that Beaty, Haywood or King achieved (yes?)

If I've got that right... then, like I said... different planets... if not different solar systems.

No.  I'm saying has already equaled or surpassed what those have done.  But you're trying to say that he has to play as many years as they have to get into the Hall??

Drazen Petrovich played 3 years and he's in the hall. 

 

[hazer]

[sturt]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

I'm saying has already equaled or surpassed what those have done.

[AHF]

LMAO at reports today that Simmons is insisting his next team's offense revolve around him.  That is the absolute wrong direction for him to move in his career from this point.  He needs to be a secondary or tertiary creator more like Draymond Green.  Having a team whose offense revolves around a guy who averaged less than 2 shots per 4th quarter in the playoffs is a recipe for failure.  He can definitely be an important and productive part of the offense but a guy who averages 15 ppg in the regular season and 14 ppg in the playoffs cannot be what the team revolves around.  Way too limited a scorer for that role.

[AHF]

Quote

League sources say the primary motivation for Klutch Sports’ aggressive holdout is to steer him to a team built around him on offense.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/9/28/22698824/ben-simmons-trade-philadelphia-76ers

[RandomFan]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/podcast-ben-simmons-kyrie-irving-andrew-wiggins-zion-williamson-ja-morant/

Scotto: I spoke with one agent who reps a player on the 76ers over the weekend. He said, “If they can’t figure it out, the season’s over before it even starts.”

It seems, as of right now, the best Philly can theoretically get for a win-now player in the short-term would be a deal with Portland for CJ McCollum, but Philly has had their eyes on Damian Lillard for a while, and they don’t want to settle.

[bleachkit]

This more than just Ben Simmons vs. Philly. This is a proxy war between Rich Paul and the league. 

[marco102]

34 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

This more than just Ben Simmons vs. Philly. This is a proxy war between Rich Paul and the league. 

How so? His client wants out of Philly. He's doing what any agent will do.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

How so? His client wants out of Philly. He's doing what any agent will do.

The precedence makes no contract meaningful.   There's 4 years left on Simmons' deal.  If Simmons proves that he can push his way out of a situation where he has a contract, then every player becomes capable of leaving any situation regardless of contract.  It's bully ball.  The problem becomes when Klutch start building teams.