My guy has talked around NBA circles of late

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

I'm gonna give my opinion on two points you made.  First, I agree that Harris is a better player than he is given credit for.  He was one of the most feared players for me against the Hawks in the playoffs.  I don't know his contract situation, but if the Hawks can pay that can of loot to Bogi,  they can pay that kind of loot to Harris.  Obviously not both on the same roster, but you get the idea.  Next, I'm of the opinion that Trae Young does NOT make players around him better.  Its not a coincidence that he is in the top 10 in the NBA in usage.  The comment you made is WHY John Collins wants to bounce.  Yeah, John is gonna SAY the right things to the media, but the guy wants out and Trae would be happy to see him go.  Now, Trae COULD make those around him better.  He proves it every blue moon.  The way he helped close out Milwaukee recently is a example. Trae has the ability to make those around him better, but he has to cut back on his shooting drastically to do that.

First of all, Harris is paid DOUBLE what Bogi makes.   So be prepared to pay that kind of loot X2.

As far as Trae goes what do you suggest he do?  He is shooting very efficiently this year and his running partners aren't exactly lights out.   It's one thing to say 'make the others around him better' but they have to make themselves better than they have shown.   When Trae is off the court we  suck. 

[Sothron]

54 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I feel this.  For basketball reasons I agree, but more importantly, im not trying to clean out my closet.... with Cam gone, if we also ship JC+Hunter i will only have trae jersey left lol

OO city jersey tonight for me, the yellow has grown on me a lot and hope he continues to ball.  You'll probably know it's me if you see that one because I think I'm the only person in Atlanta that special ordered OO17 jersey in yellow lol

Sent you our seat locations if you want to meet during the game. I love getting to meet Squawkers when I can.

[JayBirdHawk]

12 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

I don't know his contract situation, but if the Hawks can pay that can of loot to Bogi,  they can pay that kind of loot to Harris. 

$35, $37 and $39 million - almost twice Bogi. 

[marco102]

52 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

It looks like you're comparing only this years stats but if you look at Tobi last year he looks like a very very good player: 20 PPG on basically 50/40/90.  And probably more importantly, he's not catching lobs and only shooting corner 3s to get his stats.  IMO he's a better and more well rounded player than JC.  JC is still on a much much better contract and I wouldn't want Harris on that contract but I think people here underrate him and probably overrate Collins.  If we do trade Collins, I'm interested to see what his production and efficiency looks like playing without Trae.

 

Well if you are trading for what they are now, then JC is performing better this season.  JC is also much younger. You can't say look at last year and ignore this season. Last year, most the games didn't have fans. It' the Julius Randle effect.  When fans are around he hasn't performed as well as last season. 

This isn't me saying Tobias isn't a good player, I think he is.  That contract is just too much for my liking. 

[Hawkmoor]

18 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

First of all, Harris is paid DOUBLE what Bogi makes.   So be prepared to pay that kind of loot X2.

As far as Trae goes what do you suggest he do?  He is shooting very efficiently this year and his running partners aren't exactly lights out.   It's one thing to say 'make the others around him better' but they have to make themselves better than they have shown.   When Trae is off the court we  suck. 

You took a COMPLIMENT I gave Trae and missed what I was saying.  Let me back up.  There is no question that the players around him haven't been playing up to snuff.  The problem is how much is it because the offense is designed to evolve around Young and how much is it because of lack of talent?  You can't design your offense around one player, then suddenly expect the rest of the crew to have a rhythm.  The backup squad is not excuse for them, but the starters, thats a different matter.  Trae HAS THE ABILITY to erase the doubt about talent and scheme.  HE HAS THE ABILITY. THATS A COMPLIMENT.  He proved that when he HELPED the team close out Milwaukee.  He MADE HUNTER a better player down the stretch because Hunter could get in a rhythm and also catch the defense by surprise because they were honed in on Trae.  Michael Jordan couldn't win championships by himself. He MADE THOSE AROUND HIM BETTER by cutting down on his high usage.  He would drive and KICK THE BALL in that triangle offense.

I played point guard in a amateur organized league as a adult.  I grew up on the playgrounds playing point guard.  My mentally was the SAME as Trae. I was a scorer, period.  When I got into that league, I knew the players around me weren't as good, but guess what happened?  My best friend who played shooting guard on that team pulled me aside.  He said " look, you are the point guard, you HAVE to feed the other players", especially the big center we had."  I never wanted to do it because I felt they were scrubs.  Same thinking Trae has.  Guess what happened.  When I starting feeding the center, yes, he wasn't good, but I helped him be better by feeding him in certain spots, letting him find a rhythm to be the best center he could be.  Its wasn't about me.  Basketball is a team sport.  You win as a team and you lose AS A TEAM.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Hawkmoor

[kg01]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

Yeah of course you would.  A young player that doesn't contribute to winning and has little upside...lol.

You may be a bigger a** than me and that's saying a mouthful 'cause I'm a badunkadunk. 

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

You may be a bigger a** than me and that's saying a mouthful 'cause I'm a badunkadunk. 

LOL...just giving my amateur analysis.

[JeffS17]

6 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Well if you are trading for what they are now, then JC is performing better this season.  JC is also much younger. You can't say look at last year and ignore this season. Last year, most the games didn't have fans. It' the Julius Randle effect.  When fans are around he hasn't performed as well as last season. 

This isn't me saying Tobias isn't a good player, I think he is.  That contract is just too much for my liking. 

100%.  I don't really disagree with any of the conclusions here, just wanted to offer a balance to the numbers.  I definitely wouldn't judge a veteran Hawk player in their 11th season by the first 40 games in trade discussions so trying to offer that courtesy to TH -- his contract is untenable either way though lol

[AHF]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

It looks like you're comparing only this years stats but if you look at Tobi last year he looks like a very very good player: 20 PPG on basically 50/40/90.  And probably more importantly, he's not catching lobs and only shooting corner 3s to get his stats.  IMO he's a better and more well rounded player than JC.  JC is still on a much much better contract and I wouldn't want Harris on that contract but I think people here underrate him and probably overrate Collins.  If we do trade Collins, I'm interested to see what his production and efficiency looks like playing without Trae.

 

Here are their career per minute numbers so you tell me where Harris holds the big edge because it looks like Collins scores more, does it more efficiently, has the better jumper for spacing, rebounds more, and blocks more (and neither is a point forward of any kind):

Here are the advanced metrics from their player comparison page:

(I did not highlight total WS or VORP numbers because those are cumulative numbers for the career rather than rate adjusted numbers.)

[Hawkmoor]

It just dawned on me.  THE REASON the Sixers are acting like Ben Simmons is Julius Erving that teams are trying to pry off their hands is they are MESSING with Simmons.  I guarantee you its a front office ego thing.  They don't want Simmons to feel like he has won.  You don't have a player that teammates and coaches are angry with to that degree, WITH THE ABILITY to get rid of that contract, and clown around the way they are unless its some personal B.S. up in that front office.

[GameTime]

https://www.inquirer.com/sixers/ben-simmons-sixers-kings-tobias-harris-tyrese-haliburton-trade-rumors-20220119.html

Quote

Last week, the Atlanta Hawks considered sending John Collins, Cam Reddish and a first-rounder to the Sixers in exchange for Simmons, according to sources. However, the talks stopped after Harris’ name was brought in the deal.

The Sixers denied a report that said they’re packaging Harris alongside Simmons. However, multiple teams around the league say that’s the case. Sources have even said the Sixers are shopping Harris, which has also been denied.

The Kings know the Sixers aren’t interested in acquiring standout point guard De’Aaron Fox in a deal for Simmons. A source said that’s why the Kings want to include Barnes in the deal. The power forward’s $20.2 million could help make salaries match up. Barnes is also someone that has value around the NBA.

But, intent on getting Simmons, a source said the Kings are trying to find a way to acquire Harris, who’s also a power forward. They would either trade for him or find a third team willing to take Harris in a multi-team trade, according to a league source.

@thecampster @Sothron @NBASupes

Edited January 19, 2022 by GameTime

[macdaddy]

23 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

You took a COMPLIMENT I gave Trae and missed what I was saying.  Let me back up.  There is no question that the players around him haven't been playing up to snuff.  The problem is how much is it because the offense is designed to evolve around Young and how much is it because of lack of talent?  You can't design your offense around one player, then suddenly expect the rest of the crew to have a rhythm.  The backup squad is not excuse for them, but the starters, thats a different matter.  Trae HAS THE ABILITY to erase the doubt about talent and scheme.  HE HAS THE ABILITY. THATS A COMPLIMENT.  He proved that when he HELPED the team close out Milwaukee.  He MADE HUNTER a better player down the stretch because Hunter could get in a rhythm and also catch the defense by surprise because they were honed in on Trae.  Michael Jordan couldn't win championships by himself. He MADE THOSE AROUND HIM BETTER by cutting down on his high usage.  He would drive and KICK THE BALL in that triangle offense.

I played point guard in a amateur organized league as a adult.  I grew up on the playgrounds playing point guard.  My mentally was the SAME as Trae. I was a scorer, period.  When I got into that league, I knew the players around me weren't as good, but guess what happened?  My best friend who played shooting guard on that team pulled me aside.  He said " look, you are the point guard, you HAVE to feed the other players", especially the big center we had."  I never wanted to do it because I felt they were scrubs.  Same thinking Trae has.  Guess what happened.  When I starting feeding the center, yes, he wasn't good, but I helped him be better by feeding him in certain spots, letting him find a rhythm to be the best center he could be.  Its wasn't about me.  Basketball is a team sport.  You win as a team and you lose AS A TEAM.

I understand how it works.  Just not seeing that Trae isn't doing everything he can to get guys involved.   He did it last year with the same guys.   His shots are up but so is his efficiency.   The dude is feeding all game long.

[REHawksFan]

29 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Well if you are trading for what they are now, then JC is performing better this season.  JC is also much younger. You can't say look at last year and ignore this season. Last year, most the games didn't have fans. It' the Julius Randle effect.  When fans are around he hasn't performed as well as last season. 

This isn't me saying Tobias isn't a good player, I think he is.  That contract is just too much for my liking. 

I'm not sure I buy the fan thing as TH has been a very good player for several seasons when there were fans.  I think it's MUCH more likely that playing without Simmons has had a negative impact on him.  Just like playing without Trae, I think, will have a negative impact on JC.  But I do agree TH is far too expensive to take on.   

[hylndr11]

That was my issue with it 

[bleachkit]

Well if we are out on the Ben Simmons sweepstakes, what moves do we make now? 

[gurpilo]

I like Simmons but let's take a step back and look at the Big picture. Sixers could not win anything with Simmons and Harris and Embiid, I would say Embiid is today better than Trae. Supporting Cast was also better, specially if we give the team for them, so for me makes zero sense to TRADE all team for them. We intend to win a title not to guarantee we stay on mediocrity forever.

Main change we need to make is coaching and I am sorry to say that but is true

 

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, gurpilo said:

I like Simmons but let's take a step back and look at the Big picture. Sixers could not win anything with Simmons and Harris and Embiid, I would say Embiid is today better than Trae. Supporting Cast was also better, specially if we give the team for them, so for me makes zero sense to TRADE all team for them. We intend to win a title not to guarantee we stay on mediocrity forever.

I agree.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

OO city jersey tonight for me

That’s the one I’m getting. Last one though, last jersey ever!!! (I said this in 2006 with jj).. 

Enjoy.

[marco102]

6 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I'm not sure I buy the fan thing as TH has been a very good player for several seasons when there were fans.  I think it's MUCH more likely that playing without Simmons has had a negative impact on him.  Just like playing without Trae, I think, will have a negative impact on JC.  But I do agree TH is far too expensive to take on.   

This is fair and not what I was trying to say. 

He had career high efficiency numbers last year is the point I was making regarding the fans not being there.   I don't think he's a Julius Randle where he performs great the one season without fans.  You are right that not having Simmons is probably effecting his efficiency. 

8 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Well if we are out on the Ben Simmons sweepstakes, what moves do we make now? 

Nothing. Let the chips fall where they may and push through this season. Makes moves in the off season to address team needs.

[bleachkit]

3 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

I like Simmons but let's take a step back and look at the Big picture. Sixers could not win anything with Simmons and Harris and Embiid, I would say Embiid is today better than Trae. Supporting Cast was also better, specially if we give the team for them, so for me makes zero sense to TRADE all team for them. We intend to win a title not to guarantee we stay on mediocrity forever.

Main change we need to make is coaching and I am sorry to say that but is true

 

Well it depends what the cost is. Based on leaked reports it appears the cost is very high, and several teams have made competitive bids. Even though Trae and Ben is an intriguing fit, breaking up the team is a hard pill to swallow.