My guy has talked around NBA circles of late

[JTB]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

You and I are aligned.  I think Simmons could absolutely work here in a point forward role.  He might even be willing to take a backseat to Trae as a starter, and just be an energy guy.   If Nate was smart, Simmons would be the floor leader when Trae is out of the game, to keep the offense flowing to the shooters, while looking to drive to the basket for his own shot.

You and @Diesel will have to explain to me how the offense is going to work with Simmons and Capela.

Defenses are going to gap Simmons all day and play off of him and leave him open on the possessions he don’t have the ball and then you factor in the fact that  capela and Simmons can’t shoot beyond 3 feet. I just don’t understand how it would work offensively.

I understand that Simmons is good enough to beat his opponent off the dribble but how’s that going to help him when capela is crowding the lane?

what happens when Trae has the ball? He’s going to call for a pick …capela or Simmons comes and set it …then what???!!!….lol you know capela or Simmons aren’t going to pop out for a shot! It’s always going to be a roll to the basket….very predictable offense.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

49 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Okongwu is our Draymond, I guess we can have 2. 

 

This is projecting way beyond what Okongwu's skill set is.  He isn't a guy who can dominate a game with his passing, or guard 4 positions out on the floor. Draymond can do that.  And so can Ben Simmons.

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, JTB said:

You and @Diesel will have to explain to me how the offense is going to work with Simmons and Capela.

Defenses are going to gap Simmons all day and play off of him and leave him open on the possessions he don’t have the ball and then you factor in the fact that  capela and Simmons can’t shoot beyond 3 feet. I just don’t understand how it would work offensively.

I understand that Simmons is good enough to beat his opponent off the dribble but how’s that going to help him when capela is crowding the lane?

what happens when Trae has the ball? He’s going to call for a pick …capela or Simmons comes and set it …then what???!!!….lol you know capela or Simmons aren’t going to pop out for a shot! It’s always going to be a roll to the basket….very predictable offense.

 

The go to offense would be the "Shoot it Trae" offense.  You should know this by now JB!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

25 minutes ago, JTB said:

I think the experiment playing Simmons next to guys that can’t shoot or are better operating in the post area like embiid is over with.

schlenk coming from the warriors organization really understands how important spacing is so if Simmons can’t have space then I just don’t see it working offensively IF Capela is in the starting lineup. Defensively yes it works great no matter who’s out there with Simmons, he can guard 1-5 really. 
 

Last I agree with the draymond green comment…I’ve longed believe schlenk looks at Ben in that way, that style of play and if Ben accepts it , it can really transcend his career.

the most exciting thing about Simmons is looking at him in the draymond green role and that would be for any and all teams. He accepts that and we are talking about a highly possible HOF player.

 

The Warriors won a chip with Andrew Bogut and Draymond Green starting in 2015.  The reason why they won is because they were by far the best defensive team in the league, and the 2nd most efficient offensive team in the league.

Harrison Barnes played the 3 on that squad, who was a blah offensive player for them at best.

That Warriors team, from a shooting standpoint, really only had Steph and Klay, who hadn't turned into a monster yet.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

21 minutes ago, JTB said:

Lol no one can guard Durant or Giannis…not even Simmons though I can admit he’s an elite defender.

 

He can slow them down.  Even Collins slowed down Giannis . . a little.

Throw another 6-10 defender at Giannis to make him work even more, instead of the weaker 6-8 Hunter, who wouldn't do a horrible job, but he'd just be a liability from a rebounding standpoint.

Simmons > Hunter . . . from an overall team benefit standpoint.

[Peoriabird]

8 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

The Warriors won a chip with Andrew Bogut and Draymond Green starting in 2015. 

Green is a career 31% 3 point shooter and 71% from the FT line

Ben Simmons is a career 14% 3 point shooter and 60% from the FT line

Big difference

[TheNorthCydeRises]

13 minutes ago, JTB said:

You and @Diesel will have to explain to me how the offense is going to work with Simmons and Capela.

Defenses are going to gap Simmons all day and play off of him and leave him open on the possessions he don’t have the ball and then you factor in the fact that  capela and Simmons can’t shoot beyond 3 feet. I just don’t understand how it would work offensively.

I understand that Simmons is good enough to beat his opponent off the dribble but how’s that going to help him when capela is crowding the lane?

what happens when Trae has the ball? He’s going to call for a pick …capela or Simmons comes and set it …then what???!!!….lol you know capela or Simmons aren’t going to pop out for a shot! It’s always going to be a roll to the basket….very predictable offense.

 

 

The same way it works in Golden St with Draymond Green.

If Simmons has the ball, Capela becomes a screener for shooters out on the perimeter, when he is not directly involved in the pick and roll.  HE can even become a screener for Simmons in the pick and roll, who can make the same drive or lob play that Trae does on that play.

The Golden State bigs ( mainly Kevon Looney ) screens out on the perimeter all the time for a guy cutting to the basket.  Draymond then delivers passes right on the to guys for the layup, or he can find a shooter on the perimeter.

You're not going to just play off of Simmons because he does have the ability to put the ball on the floor and get to the basket.  And like with Draymond, when he goes to the basket, he's also looking to pass.

Ben's greatest value is defensive.  He shores up A LOT of the deficiencies we currently have.  Trae is good enough to control the offense, even with two non-shooters on the floor.  If anything, if Simmons is left open, he'll make the extra pass and find the open shooter.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

8 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Green is a career 31% 3 point shooter and 71% from the FT line

Ben Simmons is a career 14% 3 point shooter and 60% from the FT line

Big difference

 

And Green barely takes 1 three a game.  His threes are not even a factor in his game.

Simmons is a much better offensive player than Draymond, because he knows his limitations.  The fact that he doesn't expand his game, is preventing him from being a superstar.  But the guy has tremendous value on the floor on both ends of the court.  He makes people better, which is a great asset when you're not looking for your own offense.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Green is only averaging 1.3 three point attempts per game this season.   2.7 for his career.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

And Green barely takes 1 three a game.  His threes are not even a factor in his game.

Simmons is a much better offensive player than Draymond, because he knows his limitations.  The fact that he doesn't expand his game, is preventing him from being a superstar.  But the guy has tremendous value on the floor on both ends of the court.  He makes people better, which is a great asset when you're not looking for your own offense.

Green was taking nearly 4 attempts per game during the GS championship runs

[TheNorthCydeRises]

34 minutes ago, JTB said:

 

what happens when Trae has the ball? He’s going to call for a pick …capela or Simmons comes and set it …then what???!!!….lol you know capela or Simmons aren’t going to pop out for a shot! It’s always going to be a roll to the basket….very predictable offense.

 

 

Come on JTB . . . you're better than this.  The reason why the Trae Young pick and roll is one of the most lethal 2 point plays in basketball, is because if you don't stop the Trae drive, he gets a layup.  If you play him, he instantly throws the lob.  Both Simmons or Capela can go get it and dunk it.

What you call "predictable offense" is damn near the NBA version of the RPO in football.  Make the wrong read, and the QB keeps it and runs for a first down, or he throws it to a TE for an easy completion,  Make the right read, and the QB simply gives it to the RB for a run up the middle, that still might get you a 1st down.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Green was taking nearly 4 attempts per game during the GS championship runs

 

Is that the hill you gonna die on?  Draymond Green's 3 point attempts? 

 

He shoots below league average on that shot, and people give him that shot uncontested.  Draymond's threat of a 3 is not the reason why that team is so good offensively.  It's his ability to pass to better shooters that can make 3s, or hit people cutting to the basket.

Like I said, Ben Simmons checks off every complaint that you've had about this team this season

• Unselfish passer
• Plays defense . . . at an elite level
• Rebounds the basketball . . at an above average level
• Doesn't try to do too much . . ( i.e. take those long 3s that you hate, even if they go in 40% of the time when Trae takes it )

 

Now you're telling me that you wouldn't want a player on the team that would make the Hawks better defensively, and could get others easier looks on offense, just because he doesn't attempt 3 point shots?

But go ahead man.  Die on that hill if you must.

 

 

 

 

[terrell]

2 hours ago, Sothron said:

FWIW my guy feels Kyle Anderson is a low key quality add that Travis is more likely to go for.

Slow Mo?

[Peoriabird]

11 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Is that the hill you gonna die on?  Draymond Green's 3 point attempts? 

 

He shoots below league average on that shot, and people give him that shot uncontested.  Draymond's threat of a 3 is not the reason why that team is so good offensively.  It's his ability to pass to better shooters that can make 3s, or hit people cutting to the basket.

Like I said, Ben Simmons checks off every complaint that you've had about this team this season

• Unselfish passer
• Plays defense . . . at an elite level
• Rebounds the basketball . . at an above average level
• Doesn't try to do too much . . ( i.e. take those long 3s that you hate, even if they go in 40% of the time when Trae takes it )

 

Now you're telling me that you wouldn't want a player on the team that would make the Hawks better defensively, and could get others easier looks on offense, just because he doesn't attempt 3 point shots?

But go ahead man.  Die on that hill if you must.

 

 

 

 

The point is that Simmons is damn near a zero on offense especial in the Hawks offense and Draymond was at least functional in GS.

[JTB]

11 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Come on JTB . . . you're better than this.  The reason why the Trae Young pick and roll is one of the most lethal 2 point plays in basketball, is because if you don't stop the Trae drive, he gets a layup.  If you play him, he instantly throws the lob.  Both Simmons or Capela can go get it and dunk it.

What you call "predictable offense" is damn near the NBA version of the RPO in football.  Make the wrong read, and the QB keeps it and runs for a first down, or he throws it to a TE for an easy completion,  Make the right read, and the QB simply gives it to the RB for a run up the middle, that still might get you a 1st down.

You misunderstood my question…I ain’t worried about Trae in any offense scenario.

what I’m saying or rather asking is…when Trae has the ball and calls for the screen for either capela or Simmons what is the one not setting a screen doing on that play? 
 

with neither being able to space the floor it’s easy for the opponent to play off of the player (Simmons or capela) that’s not setting the screen for Trae and stand near the paint.

I mean without constant player movement I can’t see how this works offensively. Sure whatever player not setting Trae a screen could go and set a off ball screen but again without constant player movement I can’t see how that offense would work and we don’t move constantly on offense that’s just not our teams style.

[JeffS17]

I won't echo all the reasons people have stated that I do not want Simmons, but a part of me hopes Ben has been in the gym for the past 5 months shooting like 5,000 threes a day, and when he gets traded, he is an evolved version of himself.  I realize the likelihood of this happening is about zero but it would be funny.  Never know, sometimes guys are motivated by situations like what he's in.  God knows I always worked out the most right after a girl broke up with me lol

[JTB]

47 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

The Warriors won a chip with Andrew Bogut and Draymond Green starting in 2015.  The reason why they won is because they were by far the best defensive team in the league, and the 2nd most efficient offensive team in the league.

Harrison Barnes played the 3 on that squad, who was a blah offensive player for them at best.

That Warriors team, from a shooting standpoint, really only had Steph and Klay, who hadn't turned into a monster yet.

I think you’re underestimating the elite off ball player movement that curry and klay does. It’s truly a art and this team doesn’t have a player like that even if Trae got better at it, I don’t think he’d ever be what curry is off ball and I’m not even talking about shooting I’m talking about the art and understanding of coming off screens. 
 

and Huerter is pretty good with off ball movement but I’m not high on him getting to klay status on off ball moving.

 

when you have two guys who know how to play both on ball and off ball it makes it easier for two guys to be non shooters in the starting lineup. Oh and Barnes was not a terrible offense player, he was capable of hitting a 3 and being dangerous in his own right.

 

the skills may be transferable between green and Simmons but they aren’t necessarily with any of those other warrior players.

[MarylandHawk]

27 minutes ago, terrell said:

Slow Mo?

Dominique would have a ball clowning him every night. He always comments on how slow he is out there. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

21 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

The point is that Simmons is damn near a zero on offense especial in the Hawks offense and Draymond was at least functional in GS.

 

You need to watch the league, sir.  Like I said, Simmons was not the biggest reason why they lost that series vs us.  But he was a huge reason why they had the #1 seed.  

 

23 minutes ago, JTB said:

You misunderstood my question…I ain’t worried about Trae in any offense scenario.

what I’m saying or rather asking is…when Trae has the ball and calls for the screen for either capela or Simmons what is the one not setting a screen doing on that play? 
 

with neither being able to space the floor it’s easy for the opponent to play off of the player (Simmons or capela) that’s not setting the screen for Trae and stand near the paint.

I mean without constant player movement I can’t see how this works offensively. Sure whatever player not setting Trae a screen could go and set a off ball screen but again without constant player movement I can’t see how that offense would work and we don’t move constantly on offense that’s just not our teams style.

 

You can run the pick and roll out of the HORNS set, with both Capela and Simmons on opposite sides at the top of the key.