My guy has talked around NBA circles of late

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 hours ago, MarylandHawk said:

I actually disagree with this. As much as my mind tells me Gallo isn’t good defensively in the post, the really is his old style of defense always frustrates the player he is guarding and he rebounds well. It was an underrated part of our success last year.  We got surprisingly good defense from him and Bogi and Kevin for that matter. His defense is about where it was last year but the others have fallen off a bit. 

Go look at where Gallo made his defensive plays last season, especially in the playoffs.  We all know the play he made on Embiid.  But that play was out by the top of the key.  When he was part of the trio that helped guard Julius Randle, it was out on the perimeter.

The frontline of Collins and Gallo last year was atrocious last season.  But when you added Gallo with Capela and Collins on the frontline, that group dang near became elite defensively.

Nate was forced to play this lineup in the playoffs because he didn't have Cam until late in the Milwaukee series, he lost Hunter as we went to Philly, and Bogi even went down and wasn't 100%.  Gallo played SF out of necessity, and it worked on offense and defense.

[Diesel]

11 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Because threes and twos are willing and can shoot.

Ben can guard whoever on the other end. I am speaking strictly offensively.

Not always. 

Offensively, he can play as a slasher (which he does very well).  Before so much emphasis was placed on three point shooting, what do you think 3 did mainly?  You're confusing skillset with position.  They are not the same.  He can lineup at the three with Clint, JC, Ben, Shooter, and Trae. And we will have three great shooters in the game.  And a guy who can slash...  It's a good combo. 

[JayBirdHawk]

9 minutes ago, JTB said:

Well when it comes to emotions it could be he’s that way to Philly and only Philly. Maybe he don’t like doc or embiid….we could see a completely different reaction playing with Trae and Collins. 
 

this may be where collins is ahead of Trae in leadership and maybe schlenk thinks collins leadership would reel in Simmons.

It was said the same at LSU

[h4wkfan]

I don’t like Simmons for us at all. The only big time player I’d be ok losing major assets for may be Jaylen Brown. Especially keeping 1 of Reddish / Hunter. 

[Diesel]

23 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Another thing you have to consider with Ben Simmons. His personality. Cool, detached, standoffish. Not exactly the best for team vibes. 

I wonder about it.  How much is spin from the 76ers and how much of it is real?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 hours ago, kg01 said:

I think Cam will develop into a 'that guy'.  His skill level is undeniable.  It's all upstairs and experience for him.

How many of these guys are needing to develop a skill they don't currently have?  Cam just needs to harness.

We shouldn't give that up for some middling player like Barnes or Grant or the like .. although those moves may help us more today.

 

The thing is, we may have to get rid of some of the people who play his position, in order for him to be "that guy".  Cam got a chance to blossom ONLY when everyone else was out of the lineup.

That's why I say that it's unrealistic for us to think that we can keep everybody. We made a decision last season that Hunter and Bogi were going to be the starting wings, and Kevin and Cam would come off the bench.

But to get everyone the minutes that they want, we had to do things like play Hunter at the 4 and even play Kevin at PG.  Why?  Because there aren't enough minutes at the SG and SF positions to make everyone happy.  That's where the small ball lineups came into play with Collins at the 5 and Hunter at the 4.  That frontline isn't stopping anybody because they're not physical enough.

So to me, at least one, if not two of these guys have to go, in order for the other two to really max out of their potential.  The organization has already signed Kevin, so he's not going anywhere this season.

So if you have to let go of two of these three guys to maximize the production at the wings, who do you let go?

• Hunter
• Bogi
• Cam

 

This is the Hawks version of Marry - Kiss - Kill

[aali34]

17 minutes ago, JTB said:

Well when it comes to emotions it could be he’s that way to Philly and only Philly. Maybe he don’t like doc or embiid….we could see a completely different reaction playing with Trae and Collins. 
 

Unlikely, since he had similar issues with LSU.

Not to mention up to this point Embiid has been very accommodating for him, even stretching out to the three so the pairing can work.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

That's fine - for what/who though.  That is the discussion.

 

Give them either Cam or Hunter + filler

[marco102]

11 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Not always. 

Offensively, he can play as a slasher (which he does very well).  Before so much emphasis was placed on three point shooting, what do you think 3 did mainly?  You're confusing skillset with position.  They are not the same.  He can lineup at the three with Clint, JC, Ben, Shooter, and Trae. And we will have three great shooters in the game.  And a guy who can slash...  It's a good combo. 

Slash into what with Capela sitting at the dunker spot? The pick and roll wouldn't work with Trae and Capela either because no one is guarding Ben on the perimeter. Show me a team that won the championship in the last 10 years with a three that could only slash to the basket and is one of the worst free throw shooters in the league.

This ain't the 90s and rather people realize it or not, defensive schemes are much better today than they were then.

I say all that but still am intrigued by Simmons.

[Sothron]

Just now, marco102 said:

Slash into what with Capela sitting at the dunker spot? The pick and roll wouldn't work with Trae and Capela either because no one is guarding Ben on the perimeter. Show me a team that won the championship in the last 10 years with a three that could only slash to the basket and is one of the worst free throw shooters in the league.

This ain't the 90s and rather people realize it or not, defensive schemes are much better today than they were then.

I say all that but still am intrigued by Simmons.

The only way Ben works to me is his being a secondary playmaker and Trae finally being able to play off the ball so Ben can feed Trae off screens. Capela would have to be moved in the offseason IMO and you either move JC to 5 or you pray OO is ready to start at center and his mid range game is improved. Because Ben wants clear driving lanes to the basket or getting the ball back on a give and go or as the rim runner. He literally can't shoot beyond 3 feet around the basket. 

I think we could find a way to get Ben to work but to me having your second best player be unplayable in the 4th quarter in playoff games is too much. 

[marco102]

1 minute ago, Sothron said:

The only way Ben works to me is his being a secondary playmaker and Trae finally being able to play off the ball so Ben can feed Trae off screens. Capela would have to be moved in the offseason IMO and you either move JC to 5 or you pray OO is ready to start at center and his mid range game is improved. Because Ben wants clear driving lanes to the basket or getting the ball back on a give and go or as the rim runner. He literally can't shoot beyond 3 feet around the basket. 

I think we could find a way to get Ben to work but to me having your second best player be unplayable in the 4th quarter in playoff games is too much. 

He fixes our defense, but causes so many problems offensively.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, Sothron said:

The only way I want them to trade JC is for a bonafide superstar. KAT is that. Ben Simmons is most definitely not that. It would take a superstar to get me to come off JC. After Trae he is my most favorite Hawk and the one I feel the most valuable to our team.

 

Agreed.   JC should not be traded for anything less than an All-Star caliber player on or above his level.

The wings, to me, are less essential, because we simply may have to let go of 1 or 2 of them, for the remaining ones to really blossom.

When at full strength, 2 of our wings are either going to be playing less than 20 minutes a game, or we'll have to play a few of them out of position for them to get their minutes.  If that's the case, Hunter has to get much more tougher when he plays the 4, and help on the boards, and Huerter/Bogi have to become much more reliable when playing the point and trying to guard opposing PGs on the other end.

At least when it comes to JC, I think we can all agree that if he's traded, we need to get someone who can step right in and take up all of his production and give us even more if need be.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

Slash into what with Capela sitting at the dunker spot? The pick and roll wouldn't work with Trae and Capela either because no one is guarding Ben on the perimeter. Show me a team that won the championship in the last 10 years with a three that could only slash to the basket and is one of the worst free throw shooters in the league.

This ain't the 90s and rather people realize it or not, defensive schemes are much better today than they were then.

I say all that but still am intrigued by Simmons.

I'll take Finals MVP Andre Iguodala for the win!!

As I was saying...   skillsets are not positions and up until this emphasis on three point shooting (the last 10 years you were trying to corner me into) became a thing, Most SFs were slashers. .. and you know this. 

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, Sothron said:

The only way Ben works to me is his being a secondary playmaker and Trae finally being able to play off the ball so Ben can feed Trae off screens. Capela would have to be moved in the offseason IMO and you either move JC to 5 or you pray OO is ready to start at center and his mid range game is improved. Because Ben wants clear driving lanes to the basket or getting the ball back on a give and go or as the rim runner. He literally can't shoot beyond 3 feet around the basket. 

I think we could find a way to get Ben to work but to me having your second best player be unplayable in the 4th quarter in playoff games is too much. 

Sounds good in theory till you realize Trae sucks without the ball and just stands around like John Wall

[Sothron]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

He fixes our defense, but causes so many problems offensively.

Just to add on top of what you said: he doesn't even fully fix the defense because he's off the court in the 4th quarter in close games and playoff games. So he's not even helping on defense because he's on the bench because he can't shoot or hit free throws.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

I'll take Finals MVP Andre Iguodala for the win!!

As I was saying...   skillsets are not positions and up until this emphasis on three point shooting (the last 10 years you were trying to corner me into) became a thing, Most SFs were slashers. .. and you know this. 

Iggy is Curry when it comes to shooting compared to Simmons who's more like Capela

[Sothron]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Sounds good in theory till you realize Trae sucks without the ball and just stands around like John Wall

To be fair, Trae has never really had anyone to get him the ball so...we don't know how he would react. I think he would respond like Steph or Korver back in the day.

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I'll take Finals MVP Andre Iguodala for the win!!

As I was saying...   skillsets are not positions and up until this emphasis on three point shooting (the last 10 years you were trying to corner me into) became a thing, Most SFs were slashers. .. and you know this. 

Wrong Iggie will shoot and he had a midrange game. Show me Bens game outside of three feet.

10 years is relevant because basketball isn't played like the 90s.

Edited January 7, 2022 by marco102

[NBASupes]

Just now, Sothron said:

To be fair, Trae has never really had anyone to get him the ball so...we don't know how he would react. I think he would respond like Steph or Korver back in the day.

Lol, you are talking two of the greatest movement players with elite stamina. That's not Trae Young nor is it his game.

[Diesel]