My guy has talked around NBA circles of late

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Just to add on top of what you said: he doesn't even fully fix the defense because he's off the court in the 4th quarter in close games and playoff games. So he's not even helping on defense because he's on the bench because he can't shoot or hit free throws.

No...  
If you don't pigeon hole him into being what you think you need, you'll find that his game fits what we do quite well.  Check out the video above.  Just let him play.. our shooters will develop lanes for him to work and allow him to be PointFoward on offense.  On defense, his length and athletic ability makes up for a multitude of sins. 

The problem is that we think we need a three point shooter playing at Sf.  Please.   There were eras of basketball where the Sf never attempted a three pointer... I put Pippen in that class.  And a lot of those team would mop the floor with teams today.  Don't be a prisoner to the fad of the time. 

[NBASupes]

The reality is Simmons has to be a 4 or 5 no matter where he goes. He has the defensive versatility to guard 1-4 anyway. The issue is, Simmons is elite in the RS at creating corner 3s but Trae is even better at it than Ben. Ben and Capela is like Westbrook and Capela, we already know it's not gonna work. 

Okongwu is the obvious fit with Ben. The question is obvious. With the drop off on offense, are we better if we start 

Trae

Cam

Hunter

Simmons

Okongwu 

 

Or 

 

Trae 

Bogi or Cam

Kevin or Dre

JC

Capela 

 

As a team. Our bench no matter what is an issue if we can't stay healthy. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by NBASupes

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Hollinger: It would help them if a few more teams would drop out of the playoff race. The addition of the Play-In Tournament has made it harder for buyers at the trade deadline, because relatively fewer teams are selling.

This is a great point that Hollinger makes here.  With the creation of the play-in tournament, teams will be more reluctant to shut it down early and start trading away pieces for draft picks or younger players.  Under the old system, the 14 - 23 Portland TrailBlazers would be 4 games from the 8th and final playoff spot.   But because of the play-in tournament, they're only 1 game out of 10th place.

I think it is very good for the NBA to keep as many teams in the mix as possible, to prevent mid and late season tanking.  But it may have an adverse effect on the free agent market with teams not willing to make major moves and possibly give up playoff positioning.

[JayBirdHawk]

20 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

We made a decision last season that Hunter and Bogi were going to be the starting wings, and Kevin and Cam would come off the bench.

Cam and Hunter were the starting SG and SF to begin last season.  Cam's abysmal shooting got him benched in favor of Bogi who then promptly got injured in his first start.  Cam was back as the starter then both he and Hunter got hurt.

This season Cam has shown progress offensively, both in shooting and being able to drive and score and his passing has gotten minimally better.

[JTB]

3 minutes ago, Sothron said:

To be fair, Trae has never really had anyone to get him the ball so...we don't know how he would react. I think he would respond like Steph or Korver back in the day.

Not sure if he’d respond like those two in terms of elite off ball movement but despite what @NBASupes is saying I do think Trae would see some good looks if Simmons is here. It may not be direct passes from Simmons but perhaps hockey assist.

one other thing I’ve said in the past and still believe to this day….when pierce talked about getting the ball out of Traes hands I noticed Trae did TRY to move off ball a little more but watching him I noticed that he hasn’t quite picked up the understanding on how to actually move off ball…like he doesn’t know where to go necessarily…off ball movement is an art and sometimes you can’t figure it out without the right personnel 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

No...  
If you don't pigeon hole him into being what you think you need, you'll find that his game fits what we do quite well.  Check out the video above.  Just let him play.. our shooters will develop lanes for him to work and allow him to be PointFoward on offense.  On defense, his length and athletic ability makes up for a multitude of sins. 

The problem is that we think we need a three point shooter playing at Sf.  Please.   There were eras of basketball where the Sf never attempted a three pointer... I put Pippen in that class.  And a lot of those team would mop the floor with teams today.  Don't be a prisoner to the fad of the time. 

You mention Pippen like this is the 90s. You could spam PnR in the 90s. There was no zone defense. It was illegal. The game has changed. 

[Diesel]

6 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Wrong Iggie will shoot and he had a midrange game. Show me Bens game outside of three feet.

10 years is relevant because basketball isn't played like the 90s.

That year, Iggie shot 25% from 3??

Basketball from the 90s is not irrelevant.  That's your problem Marco.  You've bought into what Adam Silver is selling and think all the sudden, the game is different.   The only real difference is the level of physicality. 

[JTB]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

The reality is Simmons has to be a 4 or 5 no matter where he goes. He has the defensive versatility to guard 1-4 anyway. The issue is, Simmons is elite in the RS at creating corner 3s but Trae is even better at it than Ben. Ben and Capela is like Westbrook and Capela, we already know it's not gonna work. 

Okongwu is the obvious fit with Ben. The question is obvious. With the drop off on offense, are we better if we start 

Trae

Cam

Hunter

Simmons

Okongwu 

 

Or 

 

Trae 

Bogi or Cam

Kevin or Dre

JC

Capela 

 

As a team. Our bench no matter what is an issue if we can't stay healthy. 

Simmons is a 4 or 5 I agree but in no trade scenario should collins be involved to get him here.

Therefore if we aren’t talking about one of these lineups then there’s nothing to talk about with Simmons.

Trae

Bogi, Huerter, or Cam

Hunter or Cam

Simmons

Collins

 

or

 

Trae

Bogi, Huerter, Cam, or Hunter

Simmons 

Collins

Okungwu (need to be able to shoot a long distance mid range)

 

 

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You mention Pippen like this is the 90s. You could spam PnR in the 90s. There was no zone defense. It was illegal. The game has changed. 

Not so much.  Pippen played Point forward with less shooters than We would have with Simmons.  With Simmons, we would have 3 3 pt shooters on the floor with him.  That means two things... when he has the ball, lanes will open.  And he's so big and long that you have to get somebody on him...else he drives.  It's not much different than what was going on in Philly.  He had lesser shooters and a better big man playing with him.  Lesser shooters in that He had Curry as the best shooter but Tobias was not automatic but good and whoever the flavor of the day at PG.   I think JC > Harris.  Trae > PG .  and Other shooter < Curry.   Plus, Trae can actually have the ball and PNR with everybody else when he wants to do so. 

[marco102]

Just now, Diesel said:

That year, Iggie shot 25% from 3??

Basketball from the 90s is not irrelevant.  That's your problem Marco.  You've bought into what Adam Silver is selling and think all the sudden, the game is different.   The only real difference is the level of physicality. 

You are the only one talking about threes I said shoot. Shooting involves the midrange too. 

Not sure what you are looking at but in 2014/2015 the finals MVP sesaon these are Andre's stats.

His free throw percentage was better in the regular season.  His 3 point percentage was 35%.  His free throw percentage was a trocious, but still he had a midrange game he could rely upon.

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, JTB said:

Simmons is a 4 or 5 I agree but in no trade scenario should collins be involved to get him here.

Therefore if we aren’t talking about one of these lineups then there’s nothing to talk about with Simmons.

Trae

Bogi, Huerter, or Cam

Hunter or Cam

Simmons

Collins

 

or

 

Trae

Bogi, Huerter, Cam, or Hunter

Simmons 

Collins

Okungwu (need to be able to shoot a long distance mid range)

 

 

What's wrong with Cap, JC, Simmons, Bogi, Trae?

 

[JayBirdHawk]

22 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The problem is that we think we need a three point shooter playing at Sf.  Please.   There were eras of basketball where the Sf never attempted a three pointer... I put Pippen in that class. 

It's not just about shooting the 3 - we need a player NOT AFRAID to shoot.  Period.

The volume of 3s were not a part of the game back then.  Wrong on the Scottie shooting 3s - during the 1st 3 peat he averaged 1.0, 1.1 and 2.7 threes per game.  In the 2nd 3 peat he averaged 4, 5.2 and 5.2 threes per game an average of 36%. But more importantly he had a mean midrange bank shot and wasn't a reluctant shooter. ( I would like to see Cam develop that bank shot, he had a mean one last game)

[TheNorthCydeRises]

50 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Because threes and twos are willing and can shoot.

Ben can guard whoever on the other end. I am speaking strictly offensively.

 

He can defend the 3 ( which is actually what we really need ), and rebound from that position.

On offense, he can play the 4, with Collins handling the perimeter shooting. 

In the middle of games, you could see a lineup like this out on the floor with the 2nd unit

 

• Delon
• Cam
• Simmons
• Okongwu
• Dieng

 

In a lineup like this, Cam is your #1 offensive option, while Simmons is your facilitator at the top of the key, ala Draymond Green.  Ben may not shoot the ball, but he can definitely drive it to the basket and score.  You'd have a spot up shooter in Dieng at the 5 spot.  You'd have a lob/post threat with Okongwu at the 4 spot.  And you'd have Delon playing off the ball for a shooting/slashing threat.

And a lineup like this is EXTREMELY large with Simmons, OO, Dieng, and Cam all 6 - 8 and over. 

If Cam could score the ball as the #1 option with the bench,  that's a damn good defensive group for a 2nd unit.

 

If this is our starting group

• Trae
• Huerter
• Simmons
• Collins
• Capela

 

 . . you still have 3 shooters out on the floor in Trae, Huerter, and Collins.  You have 3 lob threats in Capela, Collins, and Simmons.  And you have the secondary playmaker in Simmons who could free up Trae and Huerter for open looks from 3, while still keeping Capela and Collins as offensive threats.

If Simmons fell into our laps, and we had to give up Bogi + Hunter + 1st + filler ( if needed ), that's a risk I'm willing to take if I'm Schlenk.

I also think that move makes Philly extremely dangerous in the East, which may backfire on us.  But that move definitely makes us better all around.  But the key to our success is if Cam could continue to develop into a high scoring and more efficient scorer.

 

Simmons might be our Draymond Green, and transform the trajectory of the team.

[Diesel]

Just now, marco102 said:

You are the only one talking about threes I said shoot. Shooting involves the midrange too. 

Not sure what you are looking at but in 2014/2015 the finals MVP sesaon these are Andre's stats.

His free throw percentage was better in the regular season.  His 3 point percentage was 35%.  His free throw percentage was a trocious, but still he had a midrange game he could rely upon.

You're right, I was looking at the wrong season.  BUT, His POSTSEASON STATS in 2014/2015 he raised his three point shoooting to 35% .

He was nowhere neear a three point shooter even in the post season and those 2 and 3 shot attempts per game verify that. 

[Peoriabird]

Didn't Simmons shoot like 34% from the FT line last post season?  Pass!

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Simmons might be our Draymond Green, and transform the trajectory of the team.

Okongwu is our Draymond, I guess we can have 2. 

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

You're right, I was looking at the wrong season.  BUT, His POSTSEASON STATS in 2014/2015 he raised his three point shoooting to 35% .

He was nowhere neear a three point shooter even in the post season and those 2 and 3 shot attempts per game verify that. 

Do with this what you will and tell me if Andre isn't a shooter compared to Ben.

Andre focusing on 2014/2015.

 

Ben

[NBASupes]

I rather Hunter over Simmons

Yeah I said it and Simmons is a better player but he's peaked and Hunter can be way better. People sleeping on Dre. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by NBASupes

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

I rather Hunter over Simmons

Yeah I said it

Yeah cause isn't Simmons making the freaking Max?

[ATLHawks3]

In a package for Ben, my best offer would be Gallo, Cam, and JJ.