My guy has talked around NBA circles of late

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Nate is old school and not really know for creative Xs and Os.

I complained earlier in the season about Nate's offense and his 'equal opportunity' approach.  There has to be an offensive heirarchy to the offense (and Gallo agrees - Gallinari said part of the Hawks’ problem this season is there’s no clear hierarchy and no clear game patterns. Both were much more defined last season, he said.).

[kg01]

Ok.  Nothing, insiders?  Welp, you had your chance ...

kg has finally gone off the deep end.  The losses, the non-effort, the lackluster-y-ness.  Yuck, he's done.  So we checked with our sauces and here's what we're hearing ...

- So Jollins (yeah he's back to being a Con now) is upset with his role, huh?  Well how's about you learn to string more than 2 dribbles together ..... as a member of the Philadelphia Suxers since we're (waitin' 5 days and) tradin' you for Simmons.  Eh, we'll toss in Cooper, some picks and Gallo.  Whatevs ..

"But he can't play with Capela, kg" - Rando squawkers

No worries, per my sauces we're tradin' him too.

- Capela to POR, Nurk to ATL, Lillard to PHI - all part of the Jollins deal .. somehow.

- Bogi/Cam to WAS for Beal ... eh, not high on this one but I gotta go where the voices tell me, right?

Yeah we're losing a bunch-picks in these deals but who gives AF.

See that, insiders?  That's how you deliver for the people.

(No insiders were harmed during this post, well just their feewings maybe.)

[JeffS17]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Ok.  Nothing, insiders?  Welp, you had your chance ...

kg has finally gone off the deep end.  The losses, the non-effort, the lackluster-y-ness.  Yuck, he's done.  So we checked with our sauces and here's what we're hearing ...

- So Jollins (yeah he's back to being a Con now) is upset with his role, huh?  Well how's about you learn to string more than 2 dribbles together ..... as a member of the Philadelphia Suxers since we're (waitin' 5 days and) tradin' you for Simmons.  Eh, we'll toss in Cooper, some picks and Gallo.  Whatevs ..

"But he can't play with Capela, kg" - Rando squawkers

No worries, per my sauces we're tradin' him too.

- Capela to POR, Nurk to ATL, Lillard to PHI - all part of the Jollins deal .. somehow.

- Bogi/Cam to WAS for Beal ... eh, not high on this one but I gotta go where the voices tell me, right?

Yeah we're losing a bunch-picks in these deals but who gives AF.

See that, insiders?  That's how you deliver for the people.

(No insiders were harmed during this post, well just their feewings maybe.)

Thanks for the scoop!!!!  Always appreciated!!

[HawkItus]

Sauces says 3 way deal Kings Hawks Philly.  We don't get Simmons, but we do get Hali.  

[JeffS17]

11 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

Sauces says 3 way deal Kings Hawks Philly.  We don't get Simmons, but we do get Hali.  

That would be nice.  If we can get pieces that at least make me more confident about the future I don't care as much about this season.  

[Gray Mule]

  Oh no!  Not Sharife Cooper!

[Sothron]

My talk with my guy was brief. Travis is more determined after the 2-4 road trip to make a trade but he's not going to make a trade just to make one to scare the team as I suggested privately they should do in another post.  Collins is legit upset with not getting plays called for him and the lack of effort on defense as a team. While my source and myself agree with Collins on both these things my source said the only untouchable on the roster is Trae. The way  it was said after just talking about Collins made it clear to me he's hinting that JC could be the big name on our end we move in a deal. One thing to keep in mind: we're not paying the tax so we can't take on salary.

Reading tea leaves (this means this is my conjecture not what I was told) it seems obvious to me that Gallo is almost certain to be traded in order to make salaries match for a bigger name. I think we all have called that since Gallo signed his contract with the last year only 5 million guaranteed which made it a prime contract to be moved. 

I am worried that JC could legit be traded. That's my take, again, my source is not saying they are shopping JC but if Trae is the only untouchable and JC is not happy with the team....we all know where that leads to.

[JeffS17]

5 minutes ago, Sothron said:

My talk with my guy was brief. Travis is more determined after the 2-4 road trip to make a trade but he's not going to make a trade just to make one to scare the team as I suggested privately they should do in another post.  Collins is legit upset with not getting plays called for him and the lack of effort on defense as a team. While my source and myself agree with Collins on both these things my source said the only untouchable on the roster is Trae. The way  it was said after just talking about Collins made it clear to me he's hinting that JC could be the big name on our end we move in a deal. One thing to keep in mind: we're not paying the tax so we can't take on salary.

Reading tea leaves (this means this is my conjecture not what I was told) it seems obvious to me that Gallo is almost certain to be traded in order to make salaries match for a bigger name. I think we all have called that since Gallo signed his contract with the last year only 5 million guaranteed which made it a prime contract to be moved. 

I am worried that JC could legit be traded. That's my take, again, my source is not saying they are shopping JC but if Trae is the only untouchable and JC is not happy with the team....we all know where that leads to.

Sigh... this is what I was afraid of.  Culture matters as is evidenced by our defense right now, and Collins is the kind of voice you want in the locker room.  He speaks truth and he at least tries to hold guys accountable.  I really don't want a team full of quiet introverts that cannot effectively communicate with each other, which is my biggest non-basketball reason for not being crazy about a KAT trade.

[Sothron]

More proof that JC is upset with the team:

 

https://theathletic.com/3057562/2022/01/10/what-is-wrong-with-the-hawks-a-lot-more-than-defense-we-cannot-say-were-a-good-team-right-now/?source=emp_shared_article

 

 

[Diesel]

22 minutes ago, Sothron said:

My talk with my guy was brief. Travis is more determined after the 2-4 road trip to make a trade but he's not going to make a trade just to make one to scare the team as I suggested privately they should do in another post.  Collins is legit upset with not getting plays called for him and the lack of effort on defense as a team. While my source and myself agree with Collins on both these things my source said the only untouchable on the roster is Trae. The way  it was said after just talking about Collins made it clear to me he's hinting that JC could be the big name on our end we move in a deal. One thing to keep in mind: we're not paying the tax so we can't take on salary.

Reading tea leaves (this means this is my conjecture not what I was told) it seems obvious to me that Gallo is almost certain to be traded in order to make salaries match for a bigger name. I think we all have called that since Gallo signed his contract with the last year only 5 million guaranteed which made it a prime contract to be moved. 

I am worried that JC could legit be traded. That's my take, again, my source is not saying they are shopping JC but if Trae is the only untouchable and JC is not happy with the team....we all know where that leads to.

Doesn't Collins contract make him untradeable..... logistically.  I don't believe we could trade him if we could because he's a little beyond PPP Right?

 

[Sothron]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

Doesn't Collins contract make him untradeable..... logistically.  I don't believe we could trade him if we could because he's a little beyond PPP Right?

 

The only hold up with a JC trade that I know if is he can't be traded until Jan 15th. I don't think there is a trade kicker in there like I believe Bogi still has in his contract.

[AHF]

Catching up on this thread, I saw comparisons between Championship Iggy / Championship Green and Ben Simmons in terms of how they shoot the ball away from the basket.  I wanted to add a little to that comparison because while I saw overall %s being thrown around, I didn't see shot distribution which has arguably a bigger impact on floor spacing than actual %s made.  I am not bothering to compare the 90's guys like Pippen because offense in the illegal defense / no zone era of the 90's is just an apples to oranges comparison for how the game is played today.

So here we go with these guys:

Shots within 3ft of the basket

Simmons (Career): 54.2% of field goal attempts

Green (Career):  33.5% of field goal attempts

Iggy (2014-15):  29% of field goal attempts

 

Shots 10 or more feet from the basket

Iggy (2014-15):  63.9% of field goal attempts

Green (Career):  48.9% of field goal attempts

Simmons (Career):  12.7% of field goal attempts

 

These guys are all very different from eachother.  Iggy shot over 40% of his attempts from 3pt range and took almost 2/3 of his shots as mid or long range jumpers.  Green took about half of his shots from mid and long range.  Simmons took 1 out of every 8 shots from mid-range or long range and a majority of his shots were at the rim.

These are very different profiles as far as clogging the lane and representing a threat on the floor.  Green is not a particularly good shooter from distance but teams respect that he will take that shot.  Iggy did most of his damage from range and his 3 was his best EFG% other than shots at the rim (better than a 50% efg% for his first four years in GS).  Simmons does not represent a threat on the floor at all except at the rim.  This is reflected both in the rarity of him shooting from 10+ feet from the floor and is reinforced by his terrible %s from there (29.4% from10-16 feet; 26.4% from 16-to-3pt range; and 14.7% from 3).

 

Simmons is an intriguing talent but you have to acknowledge he is not capable of playing a similar role on offense to either of those players unless he really improves his jumper a lot.  Otherwise, his shots are going to continue to require him to be near the rim as they have been historically.

 

If you are looking at a lineup with Capela and Simmons (neither of whom is a threat other than at the rim), I think that necessitates that JC becomes a stretch big and abandons being a runner on the pick and roll.  You can pick and pop with him with Simmons and Capela closer to the basket as threats but you can't run him to the rim without having 3 defenders in that space.  If Simmons is the ball handler, it needs to be a pick and pop as well because Simmons can only go to the basket.  He can't pull up or punish the defender who sags off of him.  That means that most of the time (not all) you need the other guy to be a threat from the perimeter, not so much rim running.  (Embiid was really good at shooting over his man in this type of action.)

[kg01]

It's funny.  The 'run more plays for JC' thing smells an awful lot like the 'muh name's Al Horford and I'm a PF' thing.

Yet literally at every team he's been too since, they played him at the 5.  And the one place it was abundantly clear he wasn't a fit was PHI where they played him at 4.

I'm thinking maybe they're not idiots for 'not' running offense through JC.  And, if he ends up elsewhere, he'll find himself in a similar role offensively.

The preceding musings are not shots at JC.  I just think the notion that he should be used more is flawed thinking.  Sorta how Myles Turner, for some odd reason, thinks he wants a bigger role.  Well a bigger role would only highlight things he can't do so .. what're we doin' here, mayne?

I don't want them to trade him.  I wanted them to pay/keep him.  But we can't do the 'I don't like my role' thing every year.  Gonna mess around and be a reverse Garnett/Marbury thing.

Edited January 10, 2022 by kg01

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

It's funny.  The 'run more plays for JC' thing smells an awful lot like the 'muh name's Al Horford and I'm a PF' thing.

Yet literally at every team he's been too since, they played him at the 5.  And the one place it was abundantly clear he wasn't a fit was PHI where they played him at 5.

I'm thinking maybe they're not idiots for 'not' running offense through JC.  And, if he ends up elsewhere, he'll find himself in a similar role offensively.

The preceding musings are not shots at JC.  I just think the notion that he should be used more is flawed thinking.  Sorta how Myles Turner, for some odd reason, thinks he wants a bigger role.  Well a bigger role would only highlight things he can't do so .. what're we doin' here, mayne?

I don't want them to trade him.  I wanted them to pay/keep him.  But we can't do the 'I don't like my role' thing every year.  Gonna mess around and be a reverse Garnett/Marbury thing.

You can have that discussion about whether more plays could be run for him or not but we all know we've never run plays for him and yet he is sitting at the lowest FGA/gm and lowest FGA/minute in the last 4 seasons.  He is playing 3.3 more minutes per game than last year but ending up with fewer shots.  When he is by far your most efficient scorer, that is a problem.  Don't care whether it is just featuring the PnR/PnP action with him more often, but you had better figure out a way to at least keep giving him the shots he has gotten historically when his TS% is that good.  

His FGA/36:

2019-2021:  8.4, 9.2, 9.3 FGA/36 = 8.97 FGA/36 overall

2021-22: 7.2 shots per 36 minutes

[shakes]

43 minutes ago, Sothron said:

More proof that JC is upset with the team:

 

https://theathletic.com/3057562/2022/01/10/what-is-wrong-with-the-hawks-a-lot-more-than-defense-we-cannot-say-were-a-good-team-right-now/?source=emp_shared_article

 

 

paywall article.    Post the cliff notes please.

[Sothron]

1 minute ago, shakes said:

paywall article.    Post the cliff notes please.

Athletic is pretty darn cheap but cliff notes:

Collins wants some plays run for him, has went to Nate privately about it. Sources say that his requests have been ignored. Collins is a vocal leader about playing defense and effort and Collins is frustrated that his voice is being ignored in the locker room.

[Blunt91]

I don't know if John is referring to touches in General or getting the ball on the block. If it is the latter then he has some blame in that.  He hasn't been doing a good job lately at establishing position.  Vince was pointing out how John needs to  "sit down" more when trying to get the ball in the post to keep smaller players from going around him and stealing the ball. 

[Spud2nique]

@Sothron puttin in dat work to get KAT. 

54 minutes ago, Sothron said:

More proof that JC is upset with the team:

 

https://theathletic.com/3057562/2022/01/10/what-is-wrong-with-the-hawks-a-lot-more-than-defense-we-cannot-say-were-a-good-team-right-now/?source=emp_shared_article

 

 

I can’t see this and I’m not paying for it Kirschner.

[Dynamo]

Seems like the situation is fluid.The Hawks need leadership(front office, coaching and players.)

[Spud2nique]

I’m catching up on the last few pages here gimme a sec.