The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Threezus said:

The wing objective has literally been my objective for like a year + now lol.  On here and on real GM i have complained non stop about Bogi and Huerter being our weak link and Sg being our biggest position of upgrade need.   It's the main reason i have also complained about us targeting rudy so much is because i feel if we do that giving up good assets.  Then we will have very little to trade for a legit 2 way star SG upgrade to put next to Trae which to me is HANDS DOWN the biggest priority to get this team to the next level. 

I preached about it so much that people were getting irritated at me on RealGM because i would pop in on every single Jaylen Brown  Zach Lavine(i know he's not 2 way but still a very good scorer and playmaker)  Paul George, OG  etc... trade trying to find a way to get them to the hawks over the last year.  Even when we wasn't the team that was in the trade proposals at times

 

Our weakest link is acutally Hunter, but no one wants to legitimately have that conversation right now.

 

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Actually, the comparison of Ayton to McGee...  McGee wipes the floor with Ayton defensively.

Bomba... is cheaper, better offensive ass that Gobert. 

 

Flashes maybe but long term those guys like Bamba seem to fade, whether injury wise or stat.

[Spud2nique]

The more and more I think about it, I don’t want to lose JC, I would rather add Gobert  and run it back.

[Threezus]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Our weakest link is acutally Hunter, but no one wants to legitimately have that conversation right now.

 

Because thats not true Bogi and Huerter are for sure worse than him.   Atleast Hunter you can put on the teams best scoring player and have a prayer at stopping them.  If you had another good perimeter defender to help out there and let Hunter be on the 2nd best offensive player he would lock alot of people down at times.    Bogi and Huerter you can usually put on the worst offensive players and those 2 can still get cooked more often than not.   Huerter is better than Bogi on defense atleast at times but Bogi is straight trash at it.

Im not ok with getting rid of our best perimeter defender when it's already our worst problem on the team because you have no one else but him that can do it outside of maybe Delon Wright.   You would literally be doing the absolute worst thing you can do upgrading a little bit on a strength already at Center just to screw over and destroy the one thing you should be upgrading in the 1st place our perimeter defense.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Threezus said:

Because thats not true Bogi and Huerter are for sure worse than him.   Atleast Hunter you can put on the teams best scoring player and have a prayer at stopping them.  If you had another good perimeter defender to help out there and let Hunter be on the 2nd best offensive player he would lock alot of people down at times.    Bogi and Huerter you can usually put on the worst offensive players and those 2 can still get cooked more often than not.   Huerter is better than Bogi on defense atleast at times but Bogi is straight trash at it.

Im not ok with getting rid of our best perimeter defender when it's already our worst problem on the team because you have no one else but him that can do it outside of maybe Delon Wright.   You would literally be doing the absolute worst thing you can do upgrading a little bit on a strength already at Center just to screw over and destroy the one thing you should be upgrading in the 1st place our perimeter defense.

 

That's not what the advanced metrics say. 

As individual players, you may be right that Hunter is best all around.  But as a team collective, Bogi + Huerter is better for the Hawks, than Bogi + Hunter or Huerter + Hunter.

Why?

Because when Bogi and Huerter were on offensively, that overrode their deficiencies on defense.  Basically, the Trae - Bogi - Huerter lineup were outscoring people, while Collins and Capela were handling the interior when paired with them.  Look at these 3-man lineups

• Trae - Bogi - Huerter = +6.1 pts per 100 possessions
• Trae - Bogi - Hunter = +3.2
• Trae - Huerter - Hunter =  +3.1

And Hunter's impact on defense has been vastly overrated by this fan base. The only thing that Hunter does at least average on defense, is guard his man well. But there are other aspects of defense.  Can you do some of the possession changing things on defense, like get a steal or get a defenive rebound?

If Hunter isn't holding people under 43% FG when he's guarding them, is he really having a great defensive impact if he's also not getting steals or rebounds?

The reason why everyone loves Delon Wright now, is that you can SEE his defensive impact and it translates out on the court.  You see it in his effort and you see it in the +/- boxscore ( which is misleading at times, but you see his impact ).

DeAndre Hunter, at this point in time, is not an impactful defender, nor is he an impactful offensive player.   Whether that's because of injuries, or desire, or whatever, he's just not impactful.  He's just . . . there.

As some have said, the Hawks MIGHT be better off starting Delon Wright.  It's just that Delon might be better paired with Huerter or Bogi, than with Hunter.

2-man lineup combinations with Wright:

• Wright + Huerter = +9.2 pts per 100 possessions
• Wright + Trae = +8.7
• Wright + Bogi = +7.0
• Wright + Hunter = -5.4

[MarylandHawk]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

That's not what the advanced metrics say. 

As individual players, you may be right that Hunter is best all around.  But as a team collective, Bogi + Huerter is better for the Hawks, than Bogi + Hunter or Huerter + Hunter.

Why?

Because when Bogi and Huerter were on offensively, that overrode their deficiencies on defense.  Basically, the Trae - Bogi - Huerter lineup were outscoring people, while Collins and Capela were handling the interior when paired with them.  Look at these 3-man lineups

• Trae - Bogi - Huerter = +6.1 pts per 100 possessions
• Trae - Bogi - Hunter = +3.2
• Trae - Huerter - Hunter =  +3.1

And Hunter's impact on defense has been vastly overrated by this fan base. The only thing that Hunter does at least average on defense, is guard his man well. But there are other aspects of defense.  Can you do some of the possession changing things on defense, like get a steal or get a defenive rebound?

If Hunter isn't holding people under 43% FG when he's guarding them, is he really having a great defensive impact if he's also not getting steals or rebounds?

The reason why everyone loves Delon Wright now, is that you can SEE his defensive impact and it translates out on the court.  You see it in his effort and you see it in the +/- boxscore ( which is misleading at times, but you see his impact ).

DeAndre Hunter, at this point in time, is not an impactful defender, nor is he an impactful offensive player.   Whether that's because of injuries, or desire, or whatever, he's just not impactful.  He's just . . . there.

As some have said, the Hawks MIGHT be better off starting Delon Wright.  It's just that Delon might be better paired with Huerter or Bogi, than with Hunter.

2-man lineup combinations with Wright:

• Wright + Huerter = +9.2 pts per 100 possessions
• Wright + Trae = +8.7
• Wright + Bogi = +7.0
• Wright + Hunter = -5.4

Yikes. 

[theheroatl]

Hunter is absolutely a weak link especially in a contract year. The gamble is that he has a big leap up in year 4 like Jaylen Brown did and figure it out. 50/50 chance at that. I'm sure the FO is really debating whether to ship him away to Utah or keep him on his rookie extension.

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Our weakest link is acutally Hunter, but no one wants to legitimately have that conversation right now.

 

He is but he isn't. He's the most inconsistent and the most injured but he's the only one that can defend at a high level man to man and he covers every hard matchup we play against. 

He also is 6'7 230 with a 7'2 wingspan.

Edited June 16, 2022 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

That's not what the advanced metrics say. 

As individual players, you may be right that Hunter is best all around.  But as a team collective, Bogi + Huerter is better for the Hawks, than Bogi + Hunter or Huerter + Hunter.

Why?

Because when Bogi and Huerter were on offensively, that overrode their deficiencies on defense.  Basically, the Trae - Bogi - Huerter lineup were outscoring people, while Collins and Capela were handling the interior when paired with them.  Look at these 3-man lineups

• Trae - Bogi - Huerter = +6.1 pts per 100 possessions
• Trae - Bogi - Hunter = +3.2
• Trae - Huerter - Hunter =  +3.1

And Hunter's impact on defense has been vastly overrated by this fan base. The only thing that Hunter does at least average on defense, is guard his man well. But there are other aspects of defense.  Can you do some of the possession changing things on defense, like get a steal or get a defenive rebound?

If Hunter isn't holding people under 43% FG when he's guarding them, is he really having a great defensive impact if he's also not getting steals or rebounds?

The reason why everyone loves Delon Wright now, is that you can SEE his defensive impact and it translates out on the court.  You see it in his effort and you see it in the +/- boxscore ( which is misleading at times, but you see his impact ).

DeAndre Hunter, at this point in time, is not an impactful defender, nor is he an impactful offensive player.   Whether that's because of injuries, or desire, or whatever, he's just not impactful.  He's just . . . there.

As some have said, the Hawks MIGHT be better off starting Delon Wright.  It's just that Delon might be better paired with Huerter or Bogi, than with Hunter.

2-man lineup combinations with Wright:

• Wright + Huerter = +9.2 pts per 100 possessions
• Wright + Trae = +8.7
• Wright + Bogi = +7.0
• Wright + Hunter = -5.4

Stats like this don't tell the entire story. Dillion Brooks used to get crushed in defensive metrics but the eye test, he was guarding all of the best perimeter players. It wasn't till Bane came where they would mix it up.

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, Threezus said:

Because thats not true Bogi and Huerter are for sure worse than him.   Atleast Hunter you can put on the teams best scoring player and have a prayer at stopping them.  If you had another good perimeter defender to help out there and let Hunter be on the 2nd best offensive player he would lock alot of people down at times.    Bogi and Huerter you can usually put on the worst offensive players and those 2 can still get cooked more often than not.   Huerter is better than Bogi on defense atleast at times but Bogi is straight trash at it.

Im not ok with getting rid of our best perimeter defender when it's already our worst problem on the team because you have no one else but him that can do it outside of maybe Delon Wright.   You would literally be doing the absolute worst thing you can do upgrading a little bit on a strength already at Center just to screw over and destroy the one thing you should be upgrading in the 1st place our perimeter defense.

Hunter's rebounding is so poor that it's hard to take anyone seriously that says he is a defensive stopper.   He'd be the king of allowing a second shot.

 

[NBASupes]

These trade pieces in general are getting crushed by fanbases and individuals. Especially the Hawks pieces and Rudy Gobert. Makes no sense to me. 

[Diesel]

47 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

Hunter is absolutely a weak link especially in a contract year. The gamble is that he has a big leap up in year 4 like Jaylen Brown did and figure it out. 50/50 chance at that. I'm sure the FO is really debating whether to ship him away to Utah or keep him on his rookie extension.

Problem is we have no other SF to replace him...  but Jalen Williams is day one ready..

[theheroatl]

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Problem is we have no other SF to replace him...  but Jalen Williams is day one ready..

That may be true if we keep 16.  I wonder if Travis can convince Utah to take CHA's protected pick next year so we can keep 16. Send Utah Capela/Hunter/CHA 2023 and get Gobert and Williams. You then avoid paying the Hunter extension as well.

Edited June 16, 2022 by theheroatl

[NBASupes]

10 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Problem is we have no other SF to replace him...  but Jalen Williams is day one ready..

Jalen Williams is not a SF. His game is extremely guard based and his lateral quickness is average for guards, with his height, he would need Dort like lateral movements and he just lacks that. He's gonna be a 2 both short and long term.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

He is but he isn't. He's the most inconsistent and the most injured but he's the only one that can defend at a high level man to man and he covers every hard matchup we play against. 

He also is 6'7 230 with a 7'2 wingspan.

What we have here is a

[JayBirdHawk]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

Be honest...

If nobody ever started these rumors about Gobert to Atlanta... if the rumor never hit..

Would you have thought about him?  At All?

How about Ayton?  If it was expected that he were going to sign with Phoenix, would you have said, you know what, we need to target him??

Just asking....

Every off season we look at who the UFA/RFAs are, the players who are rumored to be on the trade block, disgruntled players, teams that have players at certain position we would love to have who would like our player at another position.

Every offseason there is a hierarchy to who you want - you want the player who is determined to be the best of the available lot.  Last season KAT, Beal, etc...then lower tier guys.

[kg01]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Stats like this don't tell the entire story. Dillion Brooks used to get crushed in defensive metrics but the eye test, he was guarding all of the best perimeter players. It wasn't till Bane came where they would mix it up.

*audible gasp*

Wa-wa-wait, is this my guy finally admitting what I've been saying for years, which is that defensive metrics are flawed and borderline useless?

[NBASupes]

34 minutes ago, sturt said:

What we have here is a

I don't believe we have a conundrum. Hunter is a big wing that can defend 1, 2, and 3s. Those are extremely hard to find. Like I said, big wings are like centers in the 90s and 2000s for today's NBA 

[JayBirdHawk]

Hunter's biggest problem is his inability to stay on the floor.  Starts and stops in his continued development impedes his progression. Everytime he seems to get going he gets injured - first the wrist, then the take down by Oubre (which he pretty much played through pain and stiffness for most of the rest of the season.

On his defense, found this snippet from the end of season reviews:

Quote

While he had a largely solid year defensively, after the Cam Reddish trade Hunter was tasked with a lot of difficult assignments, and it became clear that his shift to more minutes at the power forward position changed his defensive role within the team. While some of this can be matchup-dependent to counter teams that go small, there’s a clear split in his defensive responsibilities when playing a more perimeter-oriented 3 versus him at the 4. According to Basketball-Reference, Hunter was estimated to play at small forward 65% of the time and power forward 35% of the time.

The coaching staff clearly wanted him to crowd the paint and stay at or below the level of screens and avoid switching as much as if he were playing on the perimeter.

In other words, there was a clear pivot in his workload before and after the Reddish deal with the New York Knicks, and the burden of taking on the opposing team’s best player night in and night out took a major toll. This was compounded when either John Collins or Danilo Gallinari weren’t available at forward.

But on the balance, Hunter played admiral defense — often against the opponent’s best perimeter player.

 

He still has a lot to work on, but they aren't all Trae Young - coming out ready made for the NBA bright lights.  As TS said - development is not always linear.

[Mikey]

On 6/14/2022 at 10:49 PM, NBASupes said:

Atlanta is not taking on Bledsoe's contract. I don't know how many times I gotta say that. Portland can do a deal for Winslow/7 for JC. Portland has a lot of cap space

His contract is only 3 million guaranteed opposed to 4 million guaranteed for winslow. It would be pretty dumb for them not to take bledsoe and just cut him