Official Game Thread: Hawks at Pistons (Wednesday)

[Spud2nique]

10 hours ago, Final_quest said:

Capela +22
Okongwu -19

Would you trade KD too? (Asking for a friend named not @kg01) 

[kg01]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Refs have been bad!

All True!

 

On the flipside, I'm seeing so many push offs that are going uncalled.

 

 

I was pissed when guy pushed off so egregiously.  But, in fairness to the refs, it's not like it happened right out front where it was so dang obvious a guy with sunglasses on could see it ....

[JeffS17]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

We knew neither guy was likely to give us anything approaching decent play.  In my view, if TS was going to let Gallo walk (as seemed obvious) and look to JJ as the replacement (as seemed like a high probability potential outcome) it would have been worth it to put more focus on developing JJ especially when the alternative is a terrible player giving you terrible minutes.

This was my biggest issue.  Nate and the FO were clearly out of sync which feels like an organizational issue.  You know Gallo isn't going to be around this year and frankly, Collins has been in a ton of seemingly legitimate trade rumors so Schlenk was/is clearly depending on JJ for the future -- yet Nate is refusing to play him for any substantial minutes all year.

[Atlantaholic]

Oh yea the officiating has been horse shit all year. Hawks getting hosed every game 

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

In my view, if TS was going to let Gallo walk (as seemed obvious) and look to JJ as the replacement (as seemed like a high probability potential outcome) it would have been worth it to put more focus on developing JJ especially when the alternative is a terrible player giving you terrible minutes. 

As a coach, the GM's plan is not a strong consideration for who gets to play... The coach is putting what he feels is the best team on the floor. 

Now about Knox... He played in 17 games for 111 minutes.. .that 6.5 mpg   Through his injuries and other things, Jalen played in 22 games for 5.5 mpg.  

After.. basically the allstar break, this is what KK got:

63		2022-03-01	22-202	ATL	@	BOS	L (-9)	Did Not Play
64		2022-03-03	22-204	ATL		CHI	W (+6)	Did Not Play
65		2022-03-04	22-205	ATL	@	WAS	W (+3)	Did Not Play
66		2022-03-07	22-208	ATL	@	DET	L (-3)	Did Not Play
67		2022-03-09	22-210	ATL	@	MIL	L (-9)	Did Not Play
68		2022-03-11	22-212	ATL		LAC	W (+6)	Did Not Play
69		2022-03-13	22-214	ATL		IND	W (+3)	Did Not Play
70	24	2022-03-14	22-215	ATL		POR	W (+9)	0	6:32	0	3	.000	0	1	.000	0	0		2	1	3	1	0	0	0	0	0	0.3	-3
71		2022-03-16	22-217	ATL	@	CHO	L (-10)	Did Not Play
72	25	2022-03-18	22-219	ATL		MEM	W (+15)	0	1:29	0	1	.000	0	1	.000	0	0		0	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0.0	-2
73		2022-03-20	22-221	ATL		NOP	L (-5)	Did Not Play
74		2022-03-22	22-223	ATL	@	NYK	W (+6)	Did Not Play
75	26	2022-03-23	22-224	ATL	@	DET	L (-21)	0	6:07	0	1	.000	0	1	.000	2	2	1.000	0	1	1	0	0	0	0	1	2	1.2	+2
76		2022-03-25	22-226	ATL		GSW	W (+11)	Did Not Play
77		2022-03-28	22-229	ATL	@	IND	W (+9)	Did Not Play
78	27	2022-03-30	22-231	ATL	@	OKC	W (+18)	0	17:58	6	10	.600	3	6	.500	2	2	1.000	0	2	2	0	1	1	0	4	17	13.1	+2
79	28	2022-03-31	22-232	ATL		CLE	W (+24)	0	7:23	3	4	.750	1	2	.500	0	0		0	1	1	0	0	0	0	1	7	5.3	-9
80		2022-04-02	22-234	ATL		BRK	W (+7)

80		2022-04-02	22-234	ATL		BRK	W (+7)	Did Not Play
Rk	G	Date	Age	Tm		Opp		GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	GmSc	+/-
81		2022-04-05	22-237	ATL	@	TOR	L (-10)	Did Not Play
82	29	2022-04-06	22-238	ATL		WAS	W (+15)	0	1:30	0	1	.000	0	1	.000	0	0		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	-0.7	-4
83		2022-04-08	22-240	ATL	@	MIA	L (-4)	Did Not Play
84	30	2022-04-10	22-242	ATL	@	HOU	W (+16)	0	1:57	0	2	.000	0	2	.000	1	2	.500	1	1	2	0	0	0	0	1	1	-0.2	-4

 

Can we call it garbage time??  This is the time that you wanted for Jalen..  well again, he had to get over his COVID and his busted Glute..  and then his knee... but after all that and with some rehab.. maybe he could have played in the 7 games that KK played in down the stretch?  You got to love that 1:30 and that 1:57 that Nate let him have in his last two games as a Hawk.

The greatest ability is availability. 

 

[NBASupes]

11 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

@NBASupes I need expertise and answers here! Despite JJ looking good on a bucket followed by a nice corner 3, why is it that he looks OUT OF PLACE on the floor. It’s almost like he’s the ISO guy or something. I can’t put my finger on it. Supes, can you help a brother out. I’ll  ask Scot E. Pippen aka @kg01 too. 
 

AJ flows with the offense. 
 

J Hol flows with the offense.

 

We use him wrong. It's so damn stupid. He's not a finisher. Why do we use him like Okongwu, JC, or Capela. We don't trust him, we let Gallo play his game. We didn't try to square peg Gallo

 

While @Diesel point is true, we don't do him favors

Edited October 28, 2022 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

9 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I think he's deferring too much to the Holidaze to run the offense.  His best move is 2/3 dribbles and pull up shot or drive and finish or kick to an open shooter.  The Holidaze aren't CnS they are attempting to dribble and mucking up the offense.  DJ is also overdribbling and going nowhere. Part of that is he has no idea where JJ and OO are going to be.  OO needs more touches, and they are still developing chemistry

He's tired

9 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I think he's deferring too much to the Holidaze to run the offense.  His best move is 2/3 dribbles and pull up shot or drive and finish or kick to an open shooter.  The Holidaze aren't CnS they are attempting to dribble and mucking up the offense.  DJ is also overdribbling and going nowhere. Part of that is he has no idea where JJ and OO are going to be.  OO needs more touches, and they are still developing chemistry

He's tired

[AHF]

13 hours ago, Diesel said:

As a coach, the GM's plan is not a strong consideration for who gets to play... The coach is putting what he feels is the best team on the floor. 

Now about Knox... He played in 17 games for 111 minutes.. .that 6.5 mpg   Through his injuries and other things, Jalen played in 22 games for 5.5 mpg.  

After.. basically the allstar break, this is what KK got:

63		2022-03-01	22-202	ATL	@	BOS	L (-9)	Did Not Play
64		2022-03-03	22-204	ATL		CHI	W (+6)	Did Not Play
65		2022-03-04	22-205	ATL	@	WAS	W (+3)	Did Not Play
66		2022-03-07	22-208	ATL	@	DET	L (-3)	Did Not Play
67		2022-03-09	22-210	ATL	@	MIL	L (-9)	Did Not Play
68		2022-03-11	22-212	ATL		LAC	W (+6)	Did Not Play
69		2022-03-13	22-214	ATL		IND	W (+3)	Did Not Play
70	24	2022-03-14	22-215	ATL		POR	W (+9)	0	6:32	0	3	.000	0	1	.000	0	0		2	1	3	1	0	0	0	0	0	0.3	-3
71		2022-03-16	22-217	ATL	@	CHO	L (-10)	Did Not Play
72	25	2022-03-18	22-219	ATL		MEM	W (+15)	0	1:29	0	1	.000	0	1	.000	0	0		0	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0.0	-2
73		2022-03-20	22-221	ATL		NOP	L (-5)	Did Not Play
74		2022-03-22	22-223	ATL	@	NYK	W (+6)	Did Not Play
75	26	2022-03-23	22-224	ATL	@	DET	L (-21)	0	6:07	0	1	.000	0	1	.000	2	2	1.000	0	1	1	0	0	0	0	1	2	1.2	+2
76		2022-03-25	22-226	ATL		GSW	W (+11)	Did Not Play
77		2022-03-28	22-229	ATL	@	IND	W (+9)	Did Not Play
78	27	2022-03-30	22-231	ATL	@	OKC	W (+18)	0	17:58	6	10	.600	3	6	.500	2	2	1.000	0	2	2	0	1	1	0	4	17	13.1	+2
79	28	2022-03-31	22-232	ATL		CLE	W (+24)	0	7:23	3	4	.750	1	2	.500	0	0		0	1	1	0	0	0	0	1	7	5.3	-9
80		2022-04-02	22-234	ATL		BRK	W (+7)

80		2022-04-02	22-234	ATL		BRK	W (+7)	Did Not Play
Rk	G	Date	Age	Tm		Opp		GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	GmSc	+/-
81		2022-04-05	22-237	ATL	@	TOR	L (-10)	Did Not Play
82	29	2022-04-06	22-238	ATL		WAS	W (+15)	0	1:30	0	1	.000	0	1	.000	0	0		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	-0.7	-4
83		2022-04-08	22-240	ATL	@	MIA	L (-4)	Did Not Play
84	30	2022-04-10	22-242	ATL	@	HOU	W (+16)	0	1:57	0	2	.000	0	2	.000	1	2	.500	1	1	2	0	0	0	0	1	1	-0.2	-4

 

Can we call it garbage time??  This is the time that you wanted for Jalen..  well again, he had to get over his COVID and his busted Glute..  and then his knee... but after all that and with some rehab.. maybe he could have played in the 7 games that KK played in down the stretch?  You got to love that 1:30 and that 1:57 that Nate let him have in his last two games as a Hawk.

The greatest ability is availability. 

 

Knox played 113 minutes in the second half of the season and TLC played 275 minutes.  That is a combined 388 minutes.

JJ played 120 minutes the entire season.

So yes, those would have been minutes better spent developing JJ.  And he would not have been healthy for every single one of those games but there were plenty of ways to get him more exposure last year.  Other NBA coaches found the time to get 46 other rookies more minutes than JJ.  Heck, you already have 16 players from the 2022 draft class who have totaled half (or more) of the minutes JJ got last year in the first week of the 2022-23 season.

[hylndr11]

13 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He's tired

He's tired

oh you mean from staying in the game.  Could be the case def, but like they keep saying we can also see theyve got a ways to go to figure out the best way to play together.ideal situation is that have that mostly figured out by the time bogi gets back.

[JayBirdHawk]

Here's another bone I gotta pick with Nate and his rigid rotations...it has to do with the timing of player subs, why not leave guys in if they are hot for another couple minutes. Example, Hunter was hot in the first, why not leave him in instead of subbing out cause it's his time?

 

 

[macdaddy]

38 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Here's another bone I gotta pick with Nate and his rigid rotations...it has to do with the timing of player subs, why not leave guys in if they are hot for another couple minutes. Example, Hunter was hot in the first, why not leave him in instead of subbing out cause it's his time?

 

 

This!!   This is Nate's real downfall i think.   We got to use Dre more.  He was on fire and then just didn't get shots or was out of the game. 

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

Knox played 113 minutes in the second half of the season and TLC played 275 minutes.  That is a combined 388 minutes.

JJ played 120 minutes the entire season.

So yes, those would have been minutes better spent developing JJ.  And he would not have been healthy for every single one of those games but there were plenty of ways to get him more exposure last year.  Other NBA coaches found the time to get 46 other rookies more minutes than JJ.  Heck, you already have 16 players from the 2022 draft class who have totaled half (or more) of the minutes JJ got last year in the first week of the 2022-23 season.

We are not in the business of spending time developing players.   We were trying to make it into the playoffs.   Ultimately, Nate will be judged by How far the Hawks go and NOT how many players we develop.   

Listen to the words of the Owner:

“I think if you asked our front office they would say that we thought based on last season’s visit to the Eastern Conference finals, that we could bring back predominantly the same team and get better and expect it to be better,” Ressler said. “I don’t think that worked out the way we thought.

“So yes, I think we should have tried to get better rather than bring back what we had. That won’t happen again, by the way. It was a mistake, in my opinion.”

 

Ressler's Expectation was to BE BETTER... BETTER than the ECF?  Do you think we do that by Developing players?  There's pressure where Nate sits... and that pressure is to take this team to the finals.   That was obviously the expectation last year.   SO... with that in mind, what do you think Nate will do..   Take the project drafted player who has played very little organized basketball over the last two years and probably looked bad in practice and give him lots of time on the court ... "to Develop"... or Do whatever it takes to WIN.

From all accounts, Knox played well in practice.   Once Nate found out that practice Knox wasn't game Knox... Knox started getting less than 2 minutes on the court.   I'm sure that TLC looked better than Jalen in practice.   What was Nate supposed to do.. penalize TLC and play JJ because we drafted him??   If TLC gives you the best chance to win... and the expectation is be better than the ECF.. what would you do?

 

 

 

 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

We are not in the business of spending time developing players.   

Sorry.  I just don't accept your fundamental premise.  Good teams do spend time developing players.  Sometimes that pays off with in-season development (so someone who wasn't ready to start the year is a key contributor in the playoffs) and sometimes that pays off further down the line.  But teams ignore development at their long-term peril.

[RedDawg#8]

45 minutes ago, AHF said:

Sorry.  I just don't accept your fundamental premise.  Good teams do spend time developing players.  Sometimes that pays off with in-season development (so someone who wasn't ready to start the year is a key contributor in the playoffs) and sometimes that pays off further down the line.  But teams ignore development at their long-term peril.

Agreed. Gradually working in “1” rookie  with limited minutes and eventually earned extended minutes is not going to make the difference between contending or not. There are 8-9 other players who are vets on the court getting well over 90% of the minutes. 

You cannot learn NBA speed in practice or from the bench. You learn how to process information at the NBA  level by playing in real games against NBA players.

Compounding the issue is when there is glaring weakness of the team, shooting, that a player in uniform can help address, but because he is a rookie, you don’t think he has earned his spot yet. AJ should have an opportunity ESPECIALLY while we wait on Bogi.

[RedDawg#8]

If Nate is scared to bench Justin then just play a 10 man unit and give AJ  a chance at regular mins.

[Gray Mule]

11 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

If Nate is scared to bench Justin then just play a 10 man unit and give AJ  a chance at regular mins.

NO!  Can't mess with the Sacred Nine!