Official Game Thread: Jazz at Hawks

[dalamchops]

the one play trae pissed me off on was when we were down 7 or 8 in the 4th, Nate wanted a timeout, rest of the team stopped running up the floor and trae bricked a layup, leading to another FG from Markkanen to push the lead to 10. A basket out of the timeout would've kept the game within reach.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

If Trae is anywhere close to his normal efficiency we are probably 9-1 right now. 

Maybe - but it's not all Trae. 

One gams Capela appears to be running with cement boots, missing bunnies, getting outrebounded, then the next he's All-word rebounding and defending and not missing bunnies, sometimes even from 1 half to the next. We will have inconsistencies from our young bench core (OO, JJ, AJ) from game to game and so Nate has to recognize that.

[benhillboy]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

Not just last night.. hes been pretty ass all season..I expect better from a max player.

Can’t fault Trae for the contract, GMs pay top dollar for counting stats, where he’s always been a monster. 
 

Can’t fault his fans for defending him every step of the way either that’s their guy.  People called Delon trash for half the season I didn’t trip.  They eventually saw he was the only Hawk that came to play for 5 games in the playoffs.  Trae is gonna drop 50 soon and they’ll have their chance to troll the hell outta you lol.

I’ve always known exactly what Trae (current WS/48 .100) is and isn't based on the unbelievably low floor he showed in the first half of his rookie season and in last years playoffs (that teams no doubt took some keys from) so I just appreciate the exceptional assist to turn ratio and FT shooting and keep it moving.  His career win share comparisons are Rolondo Blackmon John Logan for Christs sakes, whoever that is.  Haliburton (WS/48 .215) or SGA (WS/48 .226) ain’t walking through that door so we just gotta ride with it until Schlenk is fired then things will shake up.

Edited November 10, 2022 by benhillboy

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

Haliburton (WS/48 .215) or SGA (WS/48 .226) ain’t walking through that door

No they aren't.  They have games to lose.  

[Final_quest]

40 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Trae is struggling shooting to start the season...again! If my math is correct.......

Last season in his 1st 10 games:

33.6% from the field, 25.5% from 3

 

This season in his 1st 10 games:

37.8% from the field, 31.5% from 3

Do I like that he is struggling, no!

Am I worried - not yet!

Unto Philly!

Thanks.  It must be exhausting to be a Hawks fan and dislike Trae.  
They can’t answer how we end up with a top ranked offense with league low turnovers either.  
They say, “He bogs down the offense.”, but no data supports that theory.

Then the guys who are Hunter stans wait for one good game from him and make a huge deal about it.  

[AHF]

Couple of thoughts:

1. Trae has been struggling this season.  Nothing wrong with saying that.  The reason we say he is struggling and not just that he is a terrible player is because we have 280 games worth of data on what he looked like from age 20-23.  So we know his shooting in particular has been much worse than normal.  If this continues all year, it will be a huge problem.  I think most Hawks fans aren't clutching their pearls because they have seen him in cold periods before and seen him come out of them.
2. Trae obviously is a bad defender and equally obviously isn't the worst defender in the history of the game.  Might as well start calling Skip Bayless worse than Hitler.  Bayless is bad but let's not be ridiculous.   I feel like the real argument here is something along the lines of an argument that among All-NBA players he is the worst or something more like that.
3. I'm not sure who anyone thinks likes Justin Holiday as a player on this board.  I'm also baffled by the argument that Nate giving lots of minutes to him is somehow not good proof that Nate likes him -- that goes double if someone believes Nate has better alternatives and is playing JHol over them.  In any case, I have suggested that Nate likes Justin and do think the fact that Justin is sitting at #7 in total minutes and mpg reflects his comfort with JHol on the court.  (He has played more than 30% more minutes than JJ for example).
4. I am not at all surprised by Nate's failure to play AJ but it pisses me off.  We just lost a game in which the difference in three pointers more than covers the difference between the teams and where Utah shot 44% and we shot 29%.  And we have a guy shooting 40% on high volume just sitting on the bench unused a game after he turned the tide for us.  If Nate had not had injuries forcing him to play AJ against the Bucks we may well have gone 0-2 in these games.  If AJ played like he did against the Bucks, we win last night.  Got to give him a chance to contribute when he has shown as much as he has.  This is doubly the case when the bench is as disastrous as it was yesterday (getting outscored 43-19 and getting run off the court). I overstated this.  Nate did give AJ 10 minutes of run.  I will say that I would have liked to see AJ play with Trae some instead of being the substitute for Trae.  In both runs that AJ got, Trae came out when he did and AJ came out when Trae entered.  Would like to see some mix with that.

[Gray Mule]

You know what this old man says:  "Hit those free throws!"

Jazz - - - 20/24

Hawks- - 9/11

Jazz made 11 more free throws - - Won by 7.

Larry Bird Jr, AKA The Blonde Bomber killed us all night.  Couldn't/wouldn't defend him.  Scored from inside, the foul line and the outside three.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

You know what this old man says:  "Hit those free throws!"

Jazz - - - 20/24

Hawks- - 9/11

Jazz made 11 more free throws - - Won by 7.

Larry Bird Jr, AKA The Blonde Bomber killed us all night.  Couldn't/wouldn't defend him.  Scored from inside, the foul line and the outside three.

Yep.  Both teams hit their FTs at the same rate but one team had 10 fewer attempts than their average this season (including 0 for their leading player who had 15 the prior game) and the other team got to shoot a few more attempts than normal for a total difference of +12.5 attempts.  Pretty big impact on the final score for sure!

[kg01]

38 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

No they aren't.  They have games to lose.  

Bbbbbut no, macd.  They're OBVIOUSLY winning players you can craft a championship team around.  Just ignore the constant L's, muh anALyTicS tell me those are actually wins ... in muh spreadsheet and in muh head.

51 minutes ago, dalamchops said:

the one play trae pissed me off on was when we were down 7 or 8 in the 4th, Nate wanted a timeout, rest of the team stopped running up the floor and trae bricked a layup, leading to another FG from Markkanen to push the lead to 10. A basket out of the timeout would've kept the game within reach.

This is fair.

[macdaddy]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

I am not at all surprised by Nate's failure to play AJ but it pisses me off.  We just lost a game in which the difference in three pointers more than covers the difference between the teams and where Utah shot 44% and we shot 29%.  And we have a guy shooting 40% on high volume just sitting on the bench unused a game after he turned the tide for us.  If Nate had not had injuries forcing him to play AJ against the Bucks we may well have gone 0-2 in these games.  If AJ played like he did against the Bucks, we win last night.  Got to give him a chance to contribute when he has shown as much as he has.  This is doubly the case when the bench is as disastrous as it was yesterday (getting outscored 43-19 and getting run off the court).

I agreed with your whole post but not so sure about this.  AJ played, not a lot, but that could be because he sucked last night.  He's a rookie he's going to suck sometimes but i certainly wasn't screaming for more AJ.  He was the last bench guy to leave the game in the fourth quarter i'm pretty sure.  

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I agreed with your whole post but not so sure about this.  AJ played, not a lot, but that could be because he sucked last night.  He's a rookie he's going to suck sometimes but i certainly wasn't screaming for more AJ.  He was the last bench guy to leave the game in the fourth quarter i'm pretty sure.  

That is fair.  I'm going to edit my post because I agree I really overstated this piece.

[JayBirdHawk]

54 minutes ago, dalamchops said:

the one play trae pissed me off on was when we were down 7 or 8 in the 4th, Nate wanted a timeout, rest of the team stopped running up the floor and trae bricked a layup, leading to another FG from Markkanen to push the lead to 10. A basket out of the timeout would've kept the game within reach.

 

https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2022/11/09/0022200162/600/fc5ae3a1-5fe2-c198-d0bb-c1bb3c3d337c_1280x720.mp4

 

[kg01]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

That is fair.  I'm going to edit my post because I agree I really overstated this piece.

So mature.  The usual HS response is to double-down on the overreaction and try to fight anybody that disagrees.  I call it [insert name of fellow poster]'ing.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2022/11/09/0022200162/600/fc5ae3a1-5fe2-c198-d0bb-c1bb3c3d337c_1280x720.mp4

 

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Trae is in one of the worst shooting slumps of his career.

Not really - his 1st 10 games were worse last year (I posted his number a few posts back).  Anybody remember him shooting 19% from 3 the 1st month of his NBA career?

I'm hopefuly he'll get on track like he usually does.

[macdaddy]

8 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2022/11/09/0022200162/600/fc5ae3a1-5fe2-c198-d0bb-c1bb3c3d337c_1280x720.mp4

 

Normally i'd be ok with the refs not calling that a foul because it was marginal contact but Hawks got whistled on everything similar on the other end.   

[Final_quest]

27 minutes ago, AHF said:

 

I'm not sure who anyone thinks likes Justin Holiday as a player on this board.  I'm also baffled by the argument that Nate giving lots of minutes to him is somehow not good proof that Nate likes him -- that goes double if someone believes Nate has better alternatives and is playing JHol over them.  In any case, I have suggested that Nate likes Justin and do think the fact that Justin is sitting at #7 in total minutes and mpg reflects his comfort with JHol on the court.  (He has played more than 30% more minutes than JJ for example).

Was reading Glen Willis on Twitter yesterday and he is a fan of Jhol.  He said people will come around to Justin like they did with Delon Wright.  He particularly likes his execution on defense.  I personally am open to the idea that he's a lot better than people on here are suggesting.  Further I am also cheering for AJ to get more minutes, but I'm not gonna go all chicken little the sky is falling if there is a game he doesn't get much PT.  

[macdaddy]

I think it was a little encouraging that we went to a 10 deep rotation to include AJ even if limited minutes.  

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I think it was a little encouraging that we went to a 10 deep rotation to include AJ even if limited minutes.  

But still very high minutes for DJ (37+ minutes) and Trae (35+ minutes).

[benhillboy]

I’m slick disappointed in OO so far.  Last season he was +5.2 and +4.4.  The energy still plays but it’s time to add some skills.