Official Game Thread: Hawks at Bulls

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

@AHF

That says nothing about their record with him.  That is only a comment on how they performed without him.  So that doesn't compare the record with him with the record without him.

[macdaddy]

I have no idea what you guys are arguing about but in 20-21 we had Kevin Huerter, Tony Snell, Solomon Hill, and Cam to play when Hunter was out.   

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I have no idea what you guys are arguing about but in 20-21 we had Kevin Huerter, Tony Snell, Solomon Hill, and Cam to play when Hunter was out.   

That was my point.  The fact that Hunter was hurt that year is irrelevant to how well we played when he wasn't available.  We had all the players you just mentioned plus a much more effective Bogi so we had much better defenders and overall players as alternatives when Hunter was out than we do this year.  Bogi being better on defense two years ago is not an insignificant piece of the puzzle at all.  (The name is the same, but the game's not the same.)

[terrell]

3 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Not shots. Kinda observing throughout the years. Your brain moves sporadically when speaking on issues. You can’t keep on the subject matter itself and bring in variables to try and prove you point, but as soon as your point gets exposed you jump to another branch of thought.

Honestly it’s the same way with Supes. You both probably have some decent points but you don’t articulate them well at all. 
 

Oh, the avatar thing was real too. You made a bet and lost and didn’t pay. If AHF was a loan shark you would be history, just sayin, weasel move to bow out of that avatar thing.

 

ps I’m a Hawks fan. Trae is having a down year. I’m not a stan of Trae but he’s on the list with Nique as the top 2 players in Atlanta Hawks history. 

I'd take Joe Johnson or Al Horford over Trae Young if I was building a team.. No question about it.. 

 

[shakes]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

I have no idea what you guys are arguing about but in 20-21 we had Kevin Huerter, Tony Snell, Solomon Hill, and Cam to play when Hunter was out.   

As soon as I saw Bogi was starting I knew we were gonna lose.

[terrell]

3 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

@terrell posted winning percentages with and without Dre 2 years ago as proof Dre is not important to Hawks success this year.  @AHF Inserted himself into the discussion and now is claiming he changed the topic so I should ignore the original premise. And now come in and start insulting my writing style for no apparent reason.

Of course hes important.. We dont have any more Big wings.. smh

But hes nothing special, thats for sure..

Just shows you how bad our roster is..

Edited January 24, 2023 by terrell

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

That says nothing about their record with him.  That is only a comment on how they performed without him.  So that doesn't compare the record with him with the record without him.

The conversation started with me stating that the Hawks need Hunter to win this year.  Terrell disputed it and proceeded to say that the Hawks have won playoff series in the past without him. I then stated they won one. He then research and posted the number of wins in the 20-21 season without Hunter.  I then stated that Hunter's value now has nothing to do with what happened 2 years ago and you agreed. I then stated as a side note that the Hawks had a higher winning percentage with a healthy Bogie minus Hunter because Bogie was playing out of his mind for 2 months. And now we are here.

[terrell]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

The conversation started with me stating that the Hawks need Hunter to win this year.  Terrell disputed it and proceeded to say that the Hawks have won playoff series in the past without him. I then stated they won one. He then research and posted the number of wins in the 20-21 season without Hunter.  I then stated that Hunter's value now has nothing to do with what happened 2 years ago and you agreed. I then stated as a side note that the Hawks had a higher winning percentage with a healthy Bogie minus Hunter because Bogie was playing out of his mind for 2 months. And now we are here.

Not sure you ever said "this year" but whatever..

Besides your best ability is availability.. And you know we cant depend on Dre staying healthy..

Edited January 24, 2023 by terrell

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

Not sure you ever said "this year" but whatever..

Besides your best ability is availability.. And you know we cant depend on Dre staying healthy..

I specifically stated that the Hawks have won 1 game without Dre this year

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

The conversation started with me stating that the Hawks need Hunter to win this year.  Terrell disputed it and proceeded to say that the Hawks have won playoff series in the past without him. I then stated they won one. He then research and posted the number of wins in the 20-21 season without Hunter.  I then stated that Hunter's value now has nothing to do with what happened 2 years ago and you agreed. I then stated as a side note that the Hawks had a higher winning percentage with a healthy Bogie minus Hunter because Bogie was playing out of his mind for 2 months. And now we are here.

Thanks for contextualizing.

Yeah, there is zero doubt in my mind that the Hawks are much better with him than without him this  year and the lack of quality backup depth is a huge part of that.  Statistically the case can be made that we were better or worse with him in 2020-21.  The numbers say we were better with him on the floor that year (look at ON/OFF where we were worse on offense with him on the floor but much worse on defense without him so on net we were better with him).  The record says we were very good without him.  For me, I don't really care how good we were without him that year because the key conclusion is that I don't think we can approach being as good this year without him as compared to how good we were without him in 2020-21.  

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, terrell said:

I'd take Joe Johnson or Al Horford over Trae Young if I was building a team.. No question about it.. 

 

Sure you would.  Some people love mediocrity. 

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, shakes said:

As soon as I saw Bogi was starting I knew we were gonna lose.

I must admit... that made me LOL... because I thought the same thing. 

We haven't learned yet.   Bogi may have great offensive stats.. but he's instant death to a defensive plan.   Our streak was really predicated on us being able to play stretches of good defense.   You don't get that with Bogi on the floor.   The other team gets excited when they see Bogi..

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Thanks for contextualizing.

Yeah, there is zero doubt in my mind that the Hawks are much better with him than without him this  year and the lack of quality backup depth is a huge part of that.  Statistically the case can be made that we were better or worse with him in 2020-21.  The numbers say we were better with him on the floor that year (look at ON/OFF where we were worse on offense with him on the floor but much worse on defense without him so on net we were better with him).  The record says we were very good without him.  For me, I don't really care how good we were without him that year because the key conclusion is that I don't think we can approach being as good this year without him as compared to how good we were without him in 2020-21.  

Sounds like you are finally coming around to the dark side. I like it! Maybe we can revisit the Marvin Williams comparison thread and have a good laugh one day. Especially if he continues to grow as a player.

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

 Maybe we can revisit the Marvin Williams comparison thread and have a good laugh one day.

The comparison is bad because Marvin averaged about 75  games per year playing over 30 mpg. 

Back then, when you knew you were being overpaid... you always showed up for work... and worked harder than everybody else. 

But this generation......

 

[Peoriabird]

8 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The comparison is bad because Marvin averaged about 75  games per year playing over 30 mpg. 

 

Williams reached 75 games played only 3 out of his 1st 9 years in the league

[Diesel]

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Williams reached 75 games played only 3 out of his 1st 9 years in the league

He was with us for 7 years and played 487 out of 558 games.    That's 87% of his games.  When Hunter plays 87% of his games in 1 season... let me know.  That would be about 71 games...

 

 

 

[BrazilianHawk]

17 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

But we only gave up 111 points.  That should've been a win.

 

Should it? Idk, Hunter wasn't there to score his usual 20... 

[Peoriabird]

21 minutes ago, Diesel said:

He was with us for 7 years and played 487 out of 558 games.    That's 87% of his games.  When Hunter plays 87% of his games in 1 season... let me know.  That would be about 71 games...

 

 

 

Like I said...me and other darksiders will be laughing at you Dre=Marvin hater in a few years.

[Vol4ever]

21 hours ago, Plainview1981 said:

I don't care what the 27/9 says... He hasn't been good this year.

The terrible defense, no leadership and the poor shooting just stand out.

He doesnt have the impact in crucial moments that He used to have.

 

So we got Cam and Trae for Luka.    Hmmmmm

[TheNorthCydeRises]

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

This is the thing that has not been said...

Would you play Isaiah Thomas off ball?

Would you play John Stockton off ball?

These are two Hall of Fame PGs and neither one was ever asked to play off ball.   Trae is of this sort.  He's not Dame Lillard or Steph Curry.   Those guys can function well running through picks and getting open and taking shots.   Our offense isn't even built like that.  So what happens is you take a ball dominant PG and you put him in the OG position and you play an offense that default is 4 guys standing around watching. 

It's not going to work.  Even if Trae were capable of playing off ball at this level, we don't run an offense with plays that cater to that. 

Facts.

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

Our problem is our offense. 

DJ is a great find.  I believe he is an OG.   However, the expectation of many here is that he can run the offense with Trae on the floor.   NOPE.  Our offense isn't built that way.   We call it ISO but actually, it's the way that the offense is played... When DJ gets the ball, his job is to score.  But he's a baller and has played predominantly at the PG.   Does he have spots?  Yes, he's the midrange master.  But in our offense, we're asking him to shoot from outside.  He came to us as what.. a 35% 3 pt shooter.  He's no Steph Curry.  But he's doing the best he can with what we have. 

Facts.  Dejounte is definitely a combo guard to me.  He likes to score more than pass, even though he's a willing passer at times.  He's best in the open court as a passer. Not necessarily in the half court. 

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

Our problem is our offense. 

Do you blame Nate?  You can't blame Nate for not being what you want.  When we brought in DJ, everybody said he would be hard to see him and Trae fitting.  That's because both of them are ball dominant and neither of them is a high percentage three ball shooter.   However, it was at that point that you should have been looking for a coach that can teach these two  guys to work together in sync.   Who has experience with that??

That's a false narrative.  He and Trae fit together well, because Murray can concentrate more on being a scorer with Trae on the floor.  He may go ISO, but he fits with Trae.  Once Murray starts to create more for Trae to get wide open looks, that's when you'll really see the two of them shine.  We've seen flashes of that already.

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

By the way.. Just because a guy is young or new doesn't mean that he knows how to fix our issue.   More than likely, even the new guys came up with the same coaching fundamentals and beliefs as Nate.   They just may relate to the players better.   But for the X and Os guy who can do this, you need somebody from the D'Antoni Tree if not D'Antoni himself.

D'Antoni would fix our offense, but our defense would be a disaster.

7 hours ago, macdaddy said:

I have no idea what you guys are arguing about but in 20-21 we had Kevin Huerter, Tony Snell, Solomon Hill, and Cam to play when Hunter was out.   

And Gallo, who we played at the 3 sometimes during the playoffs.