Official Game Thread: Hawks at Bucks (7 PM EST Tip)

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Could it possibly be that when the Hawks drafted him he was told what to expect from Nate? Could it possibly be that when Jalen played so little at Duke that he thought spending SOME time in the G league was inevitable BUT he would be called up and put into the rotation? Was it possible that when Jalen was there with Nate that didn't use him at all his rookie season and Jalen realized getting ANY MINUTES is better than sitting on the bench?

This back and forth is just silly. You already have campster chiming in on this as well. It is blatantly obvious to anyone with eyes that Nate did not believe in Jalen and it showed in spades. You are being contrarian for no reason other than to be contrarian.

This is silly because you want to ignore the FACTS and go with what you've been told. 

You say it's blantant to anyone with EYES....

Why did Nate play Jalen 20 mpg in December and Jalen log 6 starts under a coach who did not believe in Jalen?

Somebody with EYES have to see those 20 mpg....  I'm sure you see them.  However, you would rather explain it as THE FO made him do it right.   So convenient.   But that doesn't make sense.   Let me explain why this doesn't make sense with people who have eyes.

Nate coached this team to the highest point that the franchise had ever been.   IF the FO could make decision for Nate and Make him do what they wanted him to do....  WHY WOULD THEY FIRE HIM?  They know he could coach.  They had him tied up for what 20 MILLION Dollars.   WHY FIRE HIM?

You had a more reasonable argument when you pushed that Nate wouldn't develop young players and the FO decided to go in another direction... However, if they can pull his strings and make him do what they wanted him to do.. there was no reason to fire him.

MAKE IT MAKE SENSE.

The thing that hurts that whole argument is Nate's unwillingness to DNP AJ and OO in 2023.

Clint was back.  Frank the tank was available.  JC was back.   Bogi was Back. Hunter was playing.   JHOLI was available. 

You probably wonder why I keep bringing up JHOLI?  JHOLI played for Nate before.   He was one of Nate's system guys.   A trusted player.  A good vet.   So you mean to tell me that Nate would Sit JHOLI for JJ?

	Basic Box Score Stats
Starters	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-
Dejounte Murray	38:25	10	21	.476	3	5	.600	1	3	.333	3	3	6	3	2	2	3	4	24	-2
Trae Young	36:40	6	19	.316	1	7	.143	10	11	.909	0	3	3	10	0	0	4	1	23	-11
Clint Capela	30:24	7	10	.700	0	0		0	0		7	9	16	0	0	2	4	4	14	-2
AJ Griffin	30:19	4	15	.267	3	9	.333	0	0		1	3	4	2	3	0	1	2	11	+12
Jalen Johnson	29:29	3	8	.375	1	3	.333	0	0		3	6	9	3	0	0	1	4	7	+2
Reserves	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-
Jarrett Culver	23:41	4	6	.667	0	1	.000	1	1	1.000	0	5	5	1	1	0	1	6	9	-15
Bogdan Bogdanović	22:27	6	13	.462	5	10	.500	0	0		0	3	3	1	1	0	1	0	17	-13
Onyeka Okongwu	17:36	4	6	.667	0	0		1	2	.500	3	5	8	1	0	0	3	3	9	-5
Vit Krejci	10:59	0	4	.000	0	3	.000	0	0		0	0	0	3	0	0	0	0	0	-1
Aaron Holiday	Did Not Play
Justin Holiday	Did Not Play
Frank Kaminsky	Did Not Play
Tyrese Martin	Did Not Play

 

JJ 29:29....  JHOLI  DNP

Oh wait Diesel... I told you ... Nate don't like JJ..

JJ 13:41;  JHOLI 23:55.

... yeah, but JJ fouled out. 

Do I really need to continue??

Yeah Soth..  Anybody with eyes can see how Nate hated JJ so much that he Played him 20 mpg in December while JHOLI  a guy who played for Nate before .. who probably has ate dinner at Nate's house.... sat the bench.   That's a lot of hate.

 

 

[Diesel]

5 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I know you don't believe my sources but this was out there in the media.

Let me help you with this....

@Sothron  You are the media. 

No, you don't have a media badge or maybe you do, i don't know.  But when media wants to know what's going on with the Hawks... out of laziness, they tune in to you.   I have seen this echo chamber work now for several years.  If it hits Hawksquawk... in a few days, it will be in the media.    Over time, it doesn't matter where the original source of the information is because nobody will feel like looking for it. 

 So you telling me it was out there in the media is basically you telling me.. I said it and it was repeated. 

I'm not blaming you.  More specifically, I'm pointing out the laziness of so called media. 

 

[Diesel]

10 minutes ago, Sothron said:

You can show all the charts you want about AJ's playing time. He only got initial playing time due to injuries. He kept a role in the rotation because his shooting kept him too valuable to bench. When Quin came in and the production from AJ started to drop then AJ's minutes were cut down to basically in and out of the rotation, mostly out. JJ got those minutes and IIRC Quin said in public the last rotation spot was between JJ and AJ and he would go with the hot hand at that time.

Listen to your statement. 

HIS Production kept him on the court. 

This is my problem with the narrative that Nate doesn't play Rookies.   The exception is when their production is there.  It makes you say... well isn't this every player?

Soth... you can't say that Nate didn't play a vet because he sucked.  Nate played a rook because he produced..  and then try to convince me that Nate has an agenda against Rookies. 

You've just made a case that PT was based on production...  That's what seemed more likely... when you look at AJ, OO, and JJ.  

If there was an agenda.. it was an agenda to get Nate out.   I don't have a problem with it because my problem with Nate revolved around his lack of creativity.  But its' insult to create a reason to get him out that doesn't fit. 

 

[kg01]

This is the most useless disagreement ever. 

[Sothron]

15 minutes ago, Diesel said:

This is silly because you want to ignore the FACTS and go with what you've been told. 

You say it's blantant to anyone with EYES....

Why did Nate play Jalen 20 mpg in December and Jalen log 6 starts under a coach who did not believe in Jalen?

Somebody with EYES have to see those 20 mpg....  I'm sure you see them.  However, you would rather explain it as THE FO made him do it right.   So convenient.   But that doesn't make sense.   Let me explain why this doesn't make sense with people who have eyes.

Nate coached this team to the highest point that the franchise had ever been.   IF the FO could make decision for Nate and Make him do what they wanted him to do....  WHY WOULD THEY FIRE HIM?  They know he could coach.  They had him tied up for what 20 MILLION Dollars.   WHY FIRE HIM?

You had a more reasonable argument when you pushed that Nate wouldn't develop young players and the FO decided to go in another direction... However, if they can pull his strings and make him do what they wanted him to do.. there was no reason to fire him.

MAKE IT MAKE SENSE.

The thing that hurts that whole argument is Nate's unwillingness to DNP AJ and OO in 2023.

Clint was back.  Frank the tank was available.  JC was back.   Bogi was Back. Hunter was playing.   JHOLI was available. 

You probably wonder why I keep bringing up JHOLI?  JHOLI played for Nate before.   He was one of Nate's system guys.   A trusted player.  A good vet.   So you mean to tell me that Nate would Sit JHOLI for JJ?

	Basic Box Score Stats
Starters	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-
Dejounte Murray	38:25	10	21	.476	3	5	.600	1	3	.333	3	3	6	3	2	2	3	4	24	-2
Trae Young	36:40	6	19	.316	1	7	.143	10	11	.909	0	3	3	10	0	0	4	1	23	-11
Clint Capela	30:24	7	10	.700	0	0		0	0		7	9	16	0	0	2	4	4	14	-2
AJ Griffin	30:19	4	15	.267	3	9	.333	0	0		1	3	4	2	3	0	1	2	11	+12
Jalen Johnson	29:29	3	8	.375	1	3	.333	0	0		3	6	9	3	0	0	1	4	7	+2
Reserves	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-
Jarrett Culver	23:41	4	6	.667	0	1	.000	1	1	1.000	0	5	5	1	1	0	1	6	9	-15
Bogdan Bogdanović	22:27	6	13	.462	5	10	.500	0	0		0	3	3	1	1	0	1	0	17	-13
Onyeka Okongwu	17:36	4	6	.667	0	0		1	2	.500	3	5	8	1	0	0	3	3	9	-5
Vit Krejci	10:59	0	4	.000	0	3	.000	0	0		0	0	0	3	0	0	0	0	0	-1
Aaron Holiday	Did Not Play
Justin Holiday	Did Not Play
Frank Kaminsky	Did Not Play
Tyrese Martin	Did Not Play

 

JJ 29:29....  JHOLI  DNP

Oh wait Diesel... I told you ... Nate don't like JJ..

JJ 13:41;  JHOLI 23:55.

... yeah, but JJ fouled out. 

Do I really need to continue??

Yeah Soth..  Anybody with eyes can see how Nate hated JJ so much that he Played him 20 mpg in December while JHOLI  a guy who played for Nate before .. who probably has ate dinner at Nate's house.... sat the bench.   That's a lot of hate.

 

 

This is a lot to go through.

Again, you keep referring to some statement from me that Nate was fired solely over his refusal to play young guys. I never said that was the only reason why he was fired.

Yes, using your logic if a coach does what the FO wants and the FO then fires the coach for doing what they wanted that doesn't make sense. Btw, that has in fact happened multiple times in all major team sports. Usually the "we are rebuilding, the coach is safe, we know wins will be scarce"...and so the coach is blamed/fired for losses when it is in fact the plan all along.

But anyways, I keep repeating the same thing. I know Justin Holliday playd for Nate before. Justin had his only good seasons IMO in Indiana under Nate. Justin was flat out COOKED when he got here. Go ask the Kings fans about him. They were glad to get rid of him. So no, Nate is not going to play a veteran whose cooked over a rookie that is producing. I never said Nate was stupid for crying out loud.

I've listed the reasons why nate was fired. So had campster. you notice there's similarities in what we said. It was also listed by other media types that follow the Hawks like Schulz, Brad Rowland, Glen Willis, etc.

I never consider myself a media outlet but perhaps you are correct that in today's internet age I am exactly that. Jason Walker was the only actual fan on a board that became a real media member to me but since he is how I started meeting Hawks and arena folks maybe it rubbed off on me. I have seen Woj/Shams and others use my information I share here that I would vastly prefer to stay here in their reports. 

I said that about you checking out other media because I strive to be intellectually honest in everything I do especially when it comes to a debate based off something I report here from my sources. So I wanted you to check out other folks that aren't me or from here to verify what I was saying, that's all.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

 

I don't care enough to go back and find this but there were reports that Nate was refusing to play OO as a rookie and Travis told Nate he had to play them

From May 2021 article:

That’s what happened last season with Onyeka Okongwu. The front office told McMillan that Okongwu needed to play at least a few minutes to get experience. Because he excelled early, Okongwu became a part of the rotation by the time the playoffs began.

 

https://theathletic.com/3302227/2022/05/10/nate-mcmillan-trae-young/

 

[JayBirdHawk]

All I know is as a Hawks fans I was clamoring for JJ to play and he wasn't. Had to watch the corpse of JHol play PF. Then I forgot TLC too. 

Nate's own words:

“Development is over for us,” McMillan said a few days ago. “I think that was over last year, even though some of our guys are developing still. We’re not coaching that way. I am not coaching that way. The organization, that’s not our plan this season to give minutes, as they were doing two years ago where you just put them out there and let them play.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[marco102]

A thread on the Hawks great defense defending Dame.

Great work from Dejaunte. 

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Great work from Dejaunte. 

Dejounte 

[Final_quest]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

A thread on the Hawks great defense defending Dame.

Great work from Dejaunte. 

Amazing!  Does this also mean we have a coaching staff that is gonna prep the team with a strategy to defend plays that are prominently used by other teams?

[Jdawgflow]

9 hours ago, kg01 said:

Starting to think AH and peo are the same person.  Who's with me? 

I think AHF may be a saint.  Him responding consistently in good faith blows my mind.  The ignore feature greatly improved my Hawksquawk experience.

[kg01]

12 hours ago, marco102 said:

Great work from Dejaunte. 

... and Quincy Snyder (pronounced 'Sni-duh').

And, on another note, is Dejaunte his evil twin that shows up every few episodes to muck things up with shenanigans and hijinks?

[Final_quest]

8 hours ago, Jdawgflow said:

I think AHF may be a saint.  Him responding consistently in good faith blows my mind.  The ignore feature greatly improved my Hawksquawk experience.

He definitely gives dozens of chances for people to respond in good faith, and puts a ton of effort and thought into a post that is not deserved.  

[sturt]

15 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

All I know is as a Hawks fans I was clamoring for JJ to play and he wasn't. Had to watch the corpse of JHol play PF. Then I forgot TLC too. 

Nate's own words:

“Development is over for us,” McMillan said a few days ago. “I think that was over last year, even though some of our guys are developing still. We’re not coaching that way. I am not coaching that way. The organization, that’s not our plan this season to give minutes, as they were doing two years ago where you just put them out there and let them play.

 

Happened on this.

Pardon, New York is calling in...

 

Foul.

Flagrant 1.

 

The Nate hate just comes too easy to people. At least, Jay, have the scruples to set-up the quote within the context it was said. Then, you have license to be critical to your heart's content.

 

Nate defines what "development" means as he is using it. This was a team that had, for years, "put them out there and let them play"... to "give minutes" as opposed to demanding a player earn minutes. This was, at that point, a team that had recently turned the corner from development to gunning for a championship. Virtually every one of us, you included, bought into that same vision or none of us would have been so upset when the 2021-22 and 2022-2023 teams fell short of... our expectations.

Indeed, there routinely were covid-related, reasonable explanations for his major decisions. (In that vein, it's absurd how some people so conveniently forgot how green Jalen was in his rookie season, unlikely to contribute, though wearing rose-colored glasses now, sliding past any consideration of the fact he'd literally played something like 25 games of organized basketball at any level since his junior year of high school. I personally wished Nate would have taken the chance and inserted Jalen into the rotation after JC went down with the finger injury; and, I think Nate quite possibly would have been rewarded though I cannot be certain of it. None of us can. At the same time, I understood why Nate made the choice he did, and I could only argue it was the wrong decision with any certainty if the team had failed after all to make the post season. But they did.)

 

Where you're not wrong is that Nate erred on the side of trusting in and playing his vets, as had been his history. No question. He wanted a trophy. We all did. His motivation was beyond criticism. He believed the best way to get there was to lean on experience, as most head coaches do, but sure, arguably he tended to lean more than most... and that strategic paradigm (not motivation) deserves some criticism, I agree.

But my point is it's misleading to make it sound like Nate had no justification for saying what he said. Our memories are too short, and our judgmental attitudes too sharp-edged... in my opinion.

[kg01]

9 hours ago, Jdawgflow said:

I think AHF may be a saint.  Him responding consistently in good faith blows my mind.  The ignore feature greatly improved my Hawksquawk experience.

Ohhh snap, stu is checking into the fray.  I got my popcorn ready, this thing is just getting started.

[Spud2nique]

Just now, kg01 said:

Ohhh snap, stu is checking into the fray.  I got my popcorn ready, this thing is just getting started.

His saint ness might be tested a tad today  

Arnie Shankman aka Pana Kamanana

 

 

 

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

His saint ness might be tested a tad today  

Arnie Shankman aka Pana Kamanana

 

 

 

It's fitting that stu makes a return on old hallows eve since this is the day ghosts walk among us. 

Don't yell at me, stu, I'm just joshin'. 

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

It's fitting that stu makes a return on old hallows eve since this is the day ghosts walk among us. 

Don't yell at me, stu, I'm just joshin'. 

Speaking of Halloween guess who I’m going as? That’s right! One Kevin Pangos!

 

  

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Speaking of Halloween guess who I’m going as? That’s right! One Kevin Pangos!

 

  

I'll go as Kenrich Williams.