Official Game Thread: Bucks at Hawks

[MarylandHawk]

10 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I think the minutes restriction thing is bunk. Either you're able to play or you're not. Seems like it's mostly an optics thing. Spurs did that because they guys in their mid 30s, and a month to 2 month long post season awaiting them. But now you have you have non playoff teams load managing 25 year old players. 

Exactly. Ridiculous. I bet Michael Jordan, Dominique, Isaiah, and Bird are rolling over in their...oh wait a minute, they are still alive and well in their old age. Those guys played 15 to 20 years of professional basketball, including a lot of playoffs, with half the technology and an 82 game season on full tilt every time they played. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

35 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I think the minutes restriction thing is bunk. Either you're able to play or you're not. Seems like it's mostly an optics thing. Spurs did that because they guys in their mid 30s, and a month to 2 month long post season awaiting them. But now you have you have non playoff teams load managing 25 year old players. 

 

The record number of injuries this season actually validates the case for load management to a degree.   Especially this season, in which games are literally being played every other night.

[JayBirdHawk]

58 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I think the minutes restriction thing is bunk. Either you're able to play or you're not. Seems like it's mostly an optics thing. Spurs did that because they guys in their mid 30s, and a month to 2 month long post season awaiting them. But now you have you have non playoff teams load managing 25 year old players. 

I posted an article awhile back with Chelsea Lane speaking to minutes restriction but I can't find it.  For players coming off injury it's applied to keep them being effective in the minutes they can play in lieu of overworking them off the jump. (Or something like that).

[RandomFan]

4 hours ago, bleachkit said:

I think the minutes restriction thing is bunk. Either you're able to play or you're not. Seems like it's mostly an optics thing. Spurs did that because they guys in their mid 30s, and a month to 2 month long post season awaiting them. But now you have you have non playoff teams load managing 25 year old players. 

It's so bunk that every major sport has implemented some form of it in their training regimen. Football being the leading sport. Those guys are tracked in practices to maximize their performance not only during that practice, but also over that week, month, offseason, and season. 

The science is clear, it's not bunk. There are still discussions to be had about where the optimal cutoff line is for some of these restrictions and reductions, but the fact that maximizing performance is directly tied to some form of load management is not up for debate.

So you either accept reality, or you don't; those are the only two options. 

[bleachkit]

21 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

It's so bunk that every major sport has implemented some form of it in their training regimen. Football being the leading sport. Those guys are tracked in practices to maximize their performance not only during that practice, but also over that week, month, offseason, and season. 

The science is clear, it's not bunk. There are still discussions to be had about where the optimal cutoff line is for some of these restrictions and reductions, but the fact that maximizing performance is directly tied to some form of load management is not up for debate.

So you either accept reality, or you don't; those are the only two options. 

Football is different, that's apples to oranges. 

[JayBirdHawk]

On 4/16/2021 at 3:54 PM, RedDawg#8 said:

 

Trae was just rusty, no timing or rhythm, but not injured. His last game before he sat 3 games, he was visibly tender as he moved around. That wasn't the case last night. 

 

On 4/16/2021 at 3:57 PM, terrell said:

Well I keep reading he was injured. Even though our staff doesnt let injured players anywhere near the court... Thats why I said that..lol

 

5 hours ago, MarylandHawk said:

Because Trae and having that. Lol. 

@bleachkit

Trae talking about his injured calf, said he got in a rhythm today vs last game.  Said he needs his calf to shoot. (looking for post game interview).  So even though players are back playing doesn't mean they are ready to go full bore.  Trae even said that Collins had a tough time getting his wind. Nate said JC should have an increase in his minutes restrictions next game.

 

 

 

[RandomFan]

20 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Football is different, that's apples to oranges. 

And every other major sport? You're being ridiculous in defending this point. Physical taxation on the body resulting in load management across all sports that can maximize physical performance in games is universal. They only vary in the types and amounts of load managements required of each individual sport. 

This isn't even a controversial subject, not sure why this is being debated. Unless someone just wants to remain uninformed. 

[gHost83]

Y'all know why I'm here...

[bleachkit]

22 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

And every other major sport? You're being ridiculous in defending this point. Physical taxation on the body resulting in load management across all sports that can maximize physical performance in games is universal. They only vary in the types and amounts of load managements required of each individual sport. 

This isn't even a controversial subject, not sure why this is being debated. Unless someone just wants to remain uninformed. 

A lot of "load management" in the NBA is low-key tanking, or just resting stars waiting for the playoffs. Not sure that qualifies as "maximizing performance."

[MarylandHawk]

37 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

@bleachkit

Trae talking about his injured calf, said he got in a rhythm today vs last game.  Said he needs his calf to shoot. (looking for post game interview).  So even though players are back playing doesn't mean they are ready to go full bore.  Trae even said that Collins had a tough time getting his wind. Nate said JC should have an increase in his minutes restrictions next game.

 

 

 

My point exactly. Trae is the type of player that will play through pain as long as it doesn’t do long term damage. He understands that in playing professional sports, you will never be 100%. Sitting out games and then trying to jump back in with the best athletes in the world who are in midseason form only leads to more issues. I watch it every. Single. Year. 

[MarylandHawk]

11 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

A lot of "load management" in the NBA is low-key tanking, or just resting stars waiting for the playoffs. Not sure that qualifies as "maximizing performance."

Agree with this. So much so, the NBA has to get creative and implement play in games just to keep teams honest. 

[Thomas]

On 4/16/2021 at 2:40 PM, Spud2nique said:

I understand it’s Chuck’s role to play the fumbling idiot

To absolute perfection...

[RandomFan]

39 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

A lot of "load management" in the NBA is low-key tanking, or just resting stars waiting for the playoffs. Not sure that qualifies as "maximizing performance."

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the truth of the statement of load management is a fact of maximizing performance. Stop grasping for straws in an attempt to cling to your wrong original comment. You're better than that. 

[RedDawg#8]

I think there should also be an asterisk by this season when discussing load management and what not.

In years past I think many teams abused the system for strategic purposes.

I think this is the time of year you will see that strategy more frequently, but for the most part, this season has been more about survival and attrition more than anything. Minor injuries have a bigger impact with less scheduled days off to treat them, thus forcing teams to sit guys more often than they probably would have in a normal year.
Also just in general with the brutal day to day schedule of guys having to get up early even after long trips to get tested, so even less down time and virtually no days off to recharge mentally (which plays a part in physical health).

I think it's understandable for teams to hold guys out more often in such a hectic season as this one. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, MarylandHawk said:

My point exactly. Trae is the type of player that will play through pain as long as it doesn’t do long term damage. He understands that in playing professional sports, you will never be 100%. Sitting out games and then trying to jump back in with the best athletes in the world who are in midseason form only leads to more issues. I watch it every. Single. Year. 

You missed the point entirely.

[bleachkit]

53 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the truth of the statement of load management is a fact of maximizing performance. Stop grasping for straws in an attempt to cling to your wrong original comment. You're better than that. 

So if you just play your stars 10 minutes a game, they will play better. Got it.

[MarylandHawk]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You missed the point entirely.

Nope. Trae is out there playing with a giant Ice pack on his leg but Dre can’t even practice?  Either Dre has been misdiagnosed or they are holding him back for other reasons. 

[MarylandHawk]

3 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I think there should also be an asterisk by this season when discussing load management and what not.

In years past I think many teams abused the system for strategic purposes.

I think this is the time of year you will see that strategy more frequently, but for the most part, this season has been more about survival and attrition more than anything. Minor injuries have a bigger impact with less scheduled days off to treat them, thus forcing teams to sit guys more often than they probably would have in a normal year.
Also just in general with the brutal day to day schedule of guys having to get up early even after long trips to get tested, so even less down time and virtually no days off to recharge mentally (which plays a part in physical health).

I think it's understandable for teams to hold guys out more often in such a hectic season as this one. 

I think that is a valid point this season. I think other than Cam Dre and Dunn, the Hawks have done a what you said above. 

[RandomFan]

3 hours ago, bleachkit said:

So if you just play your stars 10 minutes a game, they will play better. Got it.

While this statement continues to prove you have no ground to stand on and are only trying to make attempts at jokes to cover your refusal to acknowledge being wrong, technically this statement is correct. 

What you fail to grasp is that somewhere between 10 minutes per game and the mid to upper 30's minutes that someone like Trae is currently playing, there exists a point where if you go above that threshold, then you will be negatively effecting your physical performance at some point in the future. Whether it's the following night, the night after that, or months down the line. It's not a disputed fact and it's not complicated to understand.

However, much like flat Earthers, some people just refuse to accept reality when it's presented to them.  

Edited April 19, 2021 by RandomFan

[MarylandHawk]

6 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

@bleachkit

Trae talking about his injured calf, said he got in a rhythm today vs last game.  Said he needs his calf to shoot. (looking for post game interview).  So even though players are back playing doesn't mean they are ready to go full bore.  Trae even said that Collins had a tough time getting his wind. Nate said JC should have an increase in his minutes restrictions next game.

 

 

 

I get what your trying to point out. I am just pointing out that certain players with similar injuries miss much more time than others. Trae is taking control of his situation where players without certain status or or persistence will just go with the doctors recommendation.  In the Hawks case those recommendations are really conservative. Furthermore, if it so happens to benefit managements goals to keep a player out, then that is what will happen.  That’s what I believe is going on with Dre and Dunn and to a lesser extent Cam. Cam issue is more serious than the other two and they should take the most conservative route but they are not saying that yet.