My guy has talked around NBA circles of late

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

CAM IS A DAMN SUPERSTAR STOP TRYING TO TRADE HIM!!!! We finally developed him. Man, this roster is good we just need to get healthy, hold your water Travis we good, the NBA ain’t about seeds this year, I see a 7 or 8 seed knocking off a 2 or 1 specially in the East.

Hold on Travis!!! Don’t get crazy just yet.

I agree.  

Right now, all we need is a tweak.. not a reconstruction. 

 

[MarylandHawk]

On 12/26/2021 at 12:28 PM, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

He's not good at defending 4s.   He needs to be put on guys that stand out on the perimeter, looking for spot up shooters.

Here's an idea.  Play Okongwu at the 4 and Dieng at the 5.  Have Okongwu float like Collins does right now, while on offense, Dieng works offensively at the top of the ark, while OO controls the paint.

And Gallo isn't easily replaceable because he may be our 3rd best ISO player.  Trae can get his own shot.  Cam can too.  But so can Gallo, and he can draw fouls.  Gallo's value is that of a lethal spot up shooter from 3, and as a secondary post player when smaller forwards/guards are on him.

I actually disagree with this. As much as my mind tells me Gallo isn’t good defensively in the post, the really is his old style of defense always frustrates the player he is guarding and he rebounds well. It was an underrated part of our success last year.  We got surprisingly good defense from him and Bogi and Kevin for that matter. His defense is about where it was last year but the others have fallen off a bit. 

[JayBirdHawk]

10 hours ago, terrell said:

 

Yay or Nay?

Yeah, that's a NO!! That's an overpay! Stop giving away our stuff!

I see Grant worth a pick in the 16-20 range and another small asset.

(This brings back memories of the Drummond offers of Reddish and #16 when he went for a 2nd).

[mrhonline]

To me, Grant definitely counts as an impact player. He's not a star, but on a team with Atlanta's offensive talent, he'd be a positive. I think he'd start over Hunter because, well, Nate likes his vets.

It'd almost certainly be something like Cam+Gallo+2022 first (lotto protected)+OKC pick. Lyles would be needed to match salaries.

Rotation would be:

Quote

On-ball: Trae, Huerter, Lou

Off-ball: Bogi, Wright, TLC

Forwards: JC, Grant, Dre, JJ

Bigs: Clint, OO, Dieng, Lyles

Lots of matchup combinations there.

[JayBirdHawk]

54 minutes ago, mrhonline said:

To me, Grant definitely counts as an impact player. He's not a star, but on a team with Atlanta's offensive talent, he'd be a positive. I think he'd start over Hunter because, well, Nate likes his vets.

It'd almost certainly be something like Cam+Gallo+2022 first (lotto protected)+OKC pick. Lyles would be needed to match salaries.

Rotation would be:

Lots of matchup combinations there.

Like I said above this is an overpay for Grant.

He is currently out injured and won't be RE-EVALUATED until sometime around January 23rd. (so we have no idea when he will be available to play).  We are already down Hunter with an injury, don't need another injured player and overpaying to do so.

[JayBirdHawk]

9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Like I said above this is an overpay for Grant.

He is currently out injured and won't be RE-EVALUATED until sometime around January 23rd. (so we have no idea when he will be available to play).  We are already down Hunter with an injury, don't need another injured player and overpaying to do so.

I think his value is more in line with what Orlando got for Aaron Gordon last year: Salary Filler, protected 1st and smaller asset.

The Orlando Magic are trading forward Aaron Gordon and Gary Clark to the Denver Nuggets in exchange for Gary Harris, RJ Hampton and a 2025 first-round pick. The pick will be top-five protected in 2025, 2026 and 2027.

[kg01]

5 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

CAM IS A DAMN SUPERSTAR STOP TRYING TO TRADE HIM!!!! We finally developed him. Man, this roster is good we just need to get healthy, hold your water Travis we good, the NBA ain’t about seeds this year, I see a 7 or 8 seed knocking off a 2 or 1 specially in the East.

Hold on Travis!!! Don’t get crazy just yet.

There's a lot of truth here.  Honestly, with our luck, I kinda think if we make a big trade the guy'll go into HASP the day afterwards.

Then we get all the negative of the trade but none of the benefit.

A pretty strong case could be made that our struggles are a byproduct of the shifting roster.  Once things stabilize, we could go on a run.

[NBASupes]

 

12 hours ago, mrhonline said:

I think the most realistic option come February will end up being Jerami Grant.

Jerami Grant isn't good to me. I've never been a fan. I still think last year was a fluke. That's just me but I am not a fan of Grant for ANY major asset, even our own 1st. 

[mrhonline]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I think his value is more in line with what Orlando got for Aaron Gordon last year: Salary Filler, protected 1st and smaller asset.

The Orlando Magic are trading forward Aaron Gordon and Gary Clark to the Denver Nuggets in exchange for Gary Harris, RJ Hampton and a 2025 first-round pick. The pick will be top-five protected in 2025, 2026 and 2027.

So, a few things:

1. You can't really compare trades across years because finances shift  year to year. This trade deadline is seen as a major seller's market.

2. Gordon was expiring. Grant has an additional year.

3. Detroit has plenty of salary flexibility and don't have to trade him for that reason.

4. Many would see an inconsistent, underperforming, and oft-injured wing as a small asset. No offense to the Reddish fans, but no one has been willing to give up a good first for him yet...

I would characterize my suggested trade as:

Quote

Salary filler (Gallo)

Decent asset (Cam)

Protected first (2022)

Sweeteners (OKC 1st = 2nds)

If that's not enough, then, yes, I would move on.

[JeffS17]

The only reason to trade for Grant and the only we reason we should trade Cam at all is if they just want new scenery.  I don't know what conversations Travis has had with Cam, but Cam has made a lot of comments about wanting a bigger role.  Probably just a timing disagreement here as coaching doesn't think he's quite ready, but it's something to watch because Cam might want out to a situation where he can try to develop as the #1 option (similar to what Grant has had recently).

[kg01]

13 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Jerami Grant isn't good to me. I've never been a fan. I still think last year was a fluke. That's just me but I am not a fan of Grant for ANY major asset, even our own 1st. 

He's played well for DET, at times.  But I still think he's a bad-team 20pt scorer.  His best role is basically Hunter's role, but that's not a guy you give up primo assets for.

[mrhonline]

17 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Jerami Grant isn't good to me. I've never been a fan. I still think last year was a fluke. That's just me but I am not a fan of Grant for ANY major asset, even our own 1st. 

Certainly respect your opinion, but I don't think it's a common one. Grant is not a first option but he's well liked.

According to The Athletic:

Quote

Teams with championship aspirations are routinely calling Detroit about Grant’s services, sources tell The Athletic.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

He's played well for DET, at times.  But I still think he's a bad-team 20pt scorer.  His best role is basically Hunter's role, but that's not a guy you give up primo assets for.

He isn't a wing. He's a tweener like Covington. He's a more talented Covington without the BBIQ of prime RoCo. He's not an impact player at all. He's basically a tad better than Gallo.

2 minutes ago, mrhonline said:

Certainly respect your opinion, but I don't think it's a common one. Grant is not a first option but he's well liked.

According to The Athletic:

To be a 5th option role player like prime RoCo. He's trash if you are expecting a significant contribution. 

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, mrhonline said:

Certainly respect your opinion, but I don't think it's a common one. Grant is not a first option but he's well liked.

According to The Athletic:

Teams with championship aspirations are routinely calling Detroit about Grant’s services, sources tell The Athletic.

So they'd be offering late pick(s) and salary filler to play him as a 3rd+ option.  Hawks are looking for a wing (or another player) that can be a 2nd option to Trae - he's not that guy.

[NBASupes]

13 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

The only reason to trade for Grant and the only we reason we should trade Cam at all is if they just want new scenery.  I don't know what conversations Travis has had with Cam, but Cam has made a lot of comments about wanting a bigger role.  Probably just a timing disagreement here as coaching doesn't think he's quite ready, but it's something to watch because Cam might want out to a situation where he can try to develop as the #1 option (similar to what Grant has had recently).

Trade to trade deal is how Jermaine O'Neal is traded for Dale Davis. Portland literally had to rebuild a few years later after that deal whereas Indiana became one of the top teams in the east. This would be nothing short of disastrous 

[bleachkit]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

So they'd be offering late pick(s) and salary filler to play him as a 3rd+ option.  Hawks are looking for a wing (or another player) that can be a 2nd option to Trae - he's not that guy.

Yes I agree. He is solid on defense and he can score. But his efficiency numbers aren't that impressive he has an injury history. To me that's not worth the likely cost. 

[kg01]

8 minutes ago, mrhonline said:

Certainly respect your opinion, but I don't think it's a common one. Grant is not a first option but he's well liked.

According to The Athletic:

That jibes with my feeling on him.  He'd be great on a contender which will only look for him to be a roleplayer.  We need a legit 2nd option (maybe even a 1st option).  He'd be miscast in that role.

[JeffS17]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He isn't a wing. He's a tweener like Covington. He's a more talented Covington without the BBIQ of prime RoCo. He's not an impact player at all. He's basically a tad better than Gallo.

To be a 5th option role player like prime RoCo. He's trash if you are expecting a significant contribution. 

I think calling him trash is pretty harsh and unwarranted.  He was very good his last couple of years in OKC and his year in Denver.   He's basically been trying out to be a #1 option in Detroit which he is clearly not.  I think playing alongside Trae would make his productivity much much better than what we've seen in Detroit, and he is a solid defender.  All we would need from him is to be very focused on defense and ~15-20 ppg.  

What I don't understand about this deal is how he would fit with Hunter.  They fill the same role and JC is going to be at PF, so I'm not sure what our lineups would look like with Grant assuming it was Cam we sent out for him.  I think he would fit well here and improve the team marginally but I also don't think we need to be making moves for marginal improvements -- leave that for teams already contending.

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trade to trade deal is how Jermaine O'Neal is traded for Dale Davis. Portland literally had to rebuild a few years later after that deal whereas Indiana became one of the top teams in the east. This would be nothing short of disastrous 

I'm not advocating for that lol just saying the players are human beings, not names on a spreadsheet.

[NBASupes]

If you trade Cam or Hunter, the return must be high enough where their emergence elsewhere can't hurt you too much otherwise you are putting yourself on the hot seat and you will get fired and likely never another GM or President of Ops job again. 

There is a reason why Miami stays Miami. They will only trade their premium young guys for stars so if Herro emerges, Miami got a star for now even if Herro has longer potential status. GMs get fired when they do stupid shit.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I think calling him trash is pretty harsh and unwarranted.  He was very good his last couple of years in OKC and his year in Denver.   He's basically been trying out to be a #1 option in Detroit which he is clearly not.  I think playing alongside Trae would make his productivity much much better than what we've seen in Detroit, and he is a solid defender.  All we would need from him is to be very focused on defense and ~15-20 ppg.  

What I don't understand about this deal is how he would fit with Hunter.  They fill the same role and JC is going to be at PF, so I'm not sure what our lineups would look like with Grant assuming it was Cam we sent out for him.  I think he would fit well here and improve the team marginally but I also don't think we need to be making moves for marginal improvements -- leave that for teams already contending.

I'm not advocating for that lol just saying the players are human beings, not names on a spreadsheet.

I didn't call him trash, I said he's trash if you are expecting a significant contribution. I am not entertaining any beyond that point.