Official Playoff Game Thread: heat at Hawks -- GAME 4

[thecampster]

I waited to collect my thoughts before posting. Still not sure I'm going to say what I mean.

There are a few things obvious to me as this series seems to be winding down.

Trae is hurt and isn't saying anything. I expect news to come out post series.

Bogi is hurt and may be damaged goods. He caught 2 flatfooted rebounds last night. No attempt to jump. Very late reaction. He wasn't going to move unless the ball came to him. We may have missed our window to trade Bogi.

Collins lacks the dog in him. There's a want it, elevate your game, go get it quality and I just haven't seen it. He's starting to get old enough we can't say, lets wait, he's young.

In the Trae/Luka draft, we had the opportunity to trade the Dallas asset (Cam) + a future pick and a player to move up for Jaren Jackson. I haven't mentioned it before but that was part of the buried draft night chatter. There wasn't a consensus at the time of what to give up and would he develop. He sure would look good at the 4 on this team right now.

 

I'll wait until we're officially eliminated to finish this thought, say what I want in the off season, but the number one thing I want is heart and health for this team. When your star is hobbled but fighting through, someone has to step up their game. Someone has to want it, show the dog. That isn't here right now.

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I disagree that Hawk players were open because of the attention Trae was receiving and just flat out missed open shots. Proving that Trae Young got no support on offense.

Please reread the actual premises and try again.  I'm starting to think you are deliberately strawmanning my post at this point.

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

1. No big man has been able to consistently punish Miami for applying that pressure to Trae.
2. No wing has been able to consistently punish Miami for applying that pressure to Trae.
3. Miami has not been given any sign that we have a secondary (let alone tertiary) option capable of consistently providing impact scoring that might make them hesitate to scheme specifically for Trae.

He isn't putting these players in favorable positions to score. Therefore at least in the playoffs, the team is better off with Trae off the court than on the court because his defense.

[SalvorMallow]

24 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It's not easy to run off ball actions on a heliocentric team. You gotta have movement players. Our only movement players is Capela and JC and JC is the only one elite at it and he's like 60%. 

Someone said something stupid like, it's the scheme. No it's not dummy. It's the personnel. Danny Green plays like Danny Green everywhere. Klay plays like Klay. Movement players gonna play their game. Kyle Korver was moving off the ball in Chicago system based around Noah and Rose as he was in Horford and Teague system. Movement players have a movement skillset. In heliocentric ball, they can only do so much but we don't have guys who are capable and to be honest. Guys like Duncan Robinson and Joe Harris who can do it are expensive because IT'S hard to find!

This is a silly take. Because our system is heliocentric, JC can't set a back screen for Huerter to cut to the basket? That is a big problem with our scheme, no creativity whatsoever.

All Nate wants from his offense is the person on the ball to take their defender through enough screens to force a switch so they can attack the mismatch, drive and kick, pnr, or ISO. We have no complexity in our scheme where there are actions happening off the ball to open up our shooters or a wing diving to the basket. How often do you see Trae hitting a cutter from the top of the key? Very rarely, and that's by design.

It isn't Trae's fault, its is a coaching issue. We are running Nate's playbook and the results are plain for anyone to see.

[Spud2nique]

Just now, SalvorMallow said:

This is a silly take. Because our system is heliocentric, JC can't set a back screen for Huerter to cut to the basket? That is a big problem with our scheme, no creativity whatsoever.

All Nate wants from his offense is the person on the ball to take their defender through enough screens to force a switch so they can attack the mismatch, drive and kick, pnr, or ISO. We have no complexity in our scheme where there are actions happening off the ball to open up our shooters or a wing diving to the basket. How often do you see Trae hitting a cutter from the top of the key? Very rarely, and that's by design.

It isn't Trae's fault, its is a coaching issue. We are running Nate's playbook and the results are plain for anyone to see.

Damn. post you often just like other’s posts but don’t comment. I agree  

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

He isn't putting these players in favorable positions to score. Therefore at least in the playoffs, the team is better off with Trae off the court than on the court because his defense.

I still don't understand what premises you disagree with, if any.  

But here are some favorable positions for Hunter.  Most of these aren't just open they are OPEN.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=428&GameID=0042100101&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=Hunter 24' 3PT Jump Shot (7 PTS) (Young 4 AST)&sct=plot

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=42&GameID=0042100102&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=MISS Hunter 25' 3PT Jump Shot&sct=plot

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=62&GameID=0042100102&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=Hunter 25' 3PT Jump Shot (3 PTS) (Collins 1 AST)&sct=plot

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=160&GameID=0042100102&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=MISS Hunter 3PT Jump Shot&sct=plot

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=484&GameID=0042100102&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=Hunter 4' Alley Oop Layup (13 PTS) (Young 4 AST)&sct=plot

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=499&GameID=0042100102&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=MISS Hunter 26' 3PT Jump Shot&sct=plot

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=33&GameID=0042100103&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=Hunter 4' Cutting Layup Shot (4 PTS) (Young 1 AST)&sct=plot

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=140&GameID=0042100103&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=MISS Hunter 3PT Jump Shot&sct=plot

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=276&GameID=0042100103&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=Hunter 11' Pullup Jump Shot (8 PTS) (Young 4 AST)&sct=plot

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=13&GameID=0042100104&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=Hunter 3PT Jump Shot (3 PTS) (Collins 1 AST)&sct=plot

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=35&GameID=0042100104&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=Hunter 3PT Jump Shot (6 PTS) (Young 1 AST)&sct=plot

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=235&GameID=0042100104&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=MISS Hunter 26' 3PT Jump Shot&sct=plot

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=496&GameID=0042100104&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=MISS Hunter 25' 3PT Jump Shot&sct=plot

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=549&GameID=0042100104&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=Hunter 3PT Jump Shot (22 PTS) (Huerter 4 AST)&sct=plot

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=477&GameID=0042100101&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=Hunter 24' 3PT Jump Shot (10 PTS) (Wright 2 AST)&sct=plot

When I mention the difference in defensive pressure, these should be illustrative of what I'm talking about.

[terrell]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

I waited to collect my thoughts before posting. Still not sure I'm going to say what I mean.

There are a few things obvious to me as this series seems to be winding down.

Trae is hurt and isn't saying anything. I expect news to come out post series.

Bogi is hurt and may be damaged goods. He caught 2 flatfooted rebounds last night. No attempt to jump. Very late reaction. He wasn't going to move unless the ball came to him. We may have missed our window to trade Bogi.

Collins lacks the dog in him. There's a want it, elevate your game, go get it quality and I just haven't seen it. He's starting to get old enough we can't say, lets wait, he's young.

In the Trae/Luka draft, we had the opportunity to trade the Dallas asset (Cam) + a future pick and a player to move up for Jaren Jackson. I haven't mentioned it before but that was part of the buried draft night chatter. There wasn't a consensus at the time of what to give up and would he develop. He sure would look good at the 4 on this team right now.

 

I'll wait until we're officially eliminated to finish this thought, say what I want in the off season, but the number one thing I want is heart and health for this team. When your star is hobbled but fighting through, someone has to step up their game. Someone has to want it, show the dog. That isn't here right now.

We turned that offer down? Oh yeah it's Schlenk..... I heard LP loved JJJ..

Edited April 25, 2022 by terrell

[JayBirdHawk]

9 hours ago, HawkingAwesome said:

This is a direct result of trading away solo theres no way he would've let these fellas come out flat.

Solo was out injured for the rest of the season though. Hid voice in the locker room might have been helpful though.

4 hours ago, Sothron said:

I agree with you. I don't want any long term injuries when it is clear we're getting bounced in the first round. I give JC a ton of credit for playing through a fascia tear in his plant foot AND a torn tendon in his shooting hand but he needs to get healthy. Same for Trae

As long as they can't make the injury worse by playing it's generally ok.

Besides when we lose in Game 7 , they'll have the regular offseason to heal up. 

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

You act like Miami is leaving players wide open because of the attention Trae is receiving

But they are, they are shading Trae, leaving the weakside open.... see enough missed wide open shots for Huerter

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FGA&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0042100104&PlayerID=1628989&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Playoffs&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612737&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

 

Even Hunter when he started on ...open looks

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FGA&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0042100104&PlayerID=1629631&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Playoffs&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612737&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

 

 

 

[Diesel]

What Nickname do you give the Hawks when they comeback and beat Miami in 7?

 

I say the masters of elimination .

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

What Nickname do you give the Hawks when they comeback and beat Miami in 7?

 

I say the masters of elimination .

Good to dream, keep hope alive....and I'm here for it.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

But they are, they are shading Trae, leaving the weakside open.... see enough missed wide open shots for Huerter

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FGA&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0042100104&PlayerID=1628989&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Playoffs&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612737&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

 

Even Hunter when he started on ...open looks

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FGA&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0042100104&PlayerID=1629631&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Playoffs&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612737&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

 

 

 

Only 2 of Hunter shots were wide open.  Note on the plays, Trae wasn't being hounded either.

[Peoriabird]

One of the plays he took Butler off the dribble

Most were Huerter passes anyway not Young

[Peoriabird]

I don't see all of these open shot that you speak of.  Only 2 of Huerter's shots weren't contested.

[AHF]

21 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I don't see all of these open shot that you speak of.  Only 2 of Huerter's shots weren't contested.

Huerter is being tightly marked.  Trae is being hounded.  Hunter is getting lots of open looks.  Haven’t reviewed Jay’s link but I posted a bunch of easy looks above for Hunter this series.

That isn’t to say that Hunter hasn’t made some contested shots because he has.  Usually those are plays where he is holding the ball and single guarded and decides to take his man.  Some makes and some misses in that category.  But he has a lot of open looks to go with them.  
 

Wish JC was healthy because he would have a lot of great looks too if he could shoot and had his usual grip and explosion.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Huerter is being tightly marked.  Trae is being hounded.  Hunter is getting lots of open looks.  Haven’t reviewed Jay’s link but I posted a bunch of easy looks above for Hunter this series.

Check out the links and tell me what you think

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Check out the links and tell me what you think

I posted them above.  I’ve seen every shot of his this series.  Lots of open looks.

[Peoriabird]

Just now, AHF said:

I posted them above.  I’ve seen every shot of his this series.  Lots of open looks.

Talking about the last game

[AHF]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Talking about the last game

I posted looks from last game.

[Peoriabird]

Just now, AHF said:

I posted looks from last game.

How many assist from Trae being hounded.  How many Trae assist period to Dre or Huerter?