Official Playoff Game Thread: heat at Hawks -- GAME 4

[Final_quest]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

Save this talk until Wednesday if we're going to lose tomorrow. 

However, hustle should be job one tomorrow. 

True.  Should give them a shot to win in Miami.

[terrell]

23 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I agree with you. I don't want any long term injuries when it is clear we're getting bounced in the first round. I give JC a ton of credit for playing through a fascia tear in his plant foot AND a torn tendon in his shooting hand but he needs to get healthy. Same for Trae

I guess I'll start looking forward to the Trae/JJ/OO years in the future, just to have something to look forward to. I'm ready to move on from everyone else in the "core"..(I'd like to keep Bogi and Delon though as 2 of our vets)...Hopefully OO can turn into Draymond 2.0. That's what we're really missing.. A BIG that can create for others..Among other things..But that would help us alot..... Perhaps we can bring in a creative Coach to bring out the best in these guys..Nate the Robot aint it...

Btw would GS give us Draymond for JC and Huerter? lol.. If I recall correctly, we almost made a deal with them for Kev.

Green would be perfect for us..

 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by terrell

[Spud2nique]

To quote Gobert:

F$ck the talk.
 

 

 

Folks have to be ready tomorrow and scratch and claw and fight like dirty dogs on the street. Step up and be that team that you want to be.

[shakes]

was watching my favorite series, Mem vs Min and Desmond Bane did a full out superman dive trying to get to a loose ball that he didn't even get to.  Got up and was right back in the play.

if you want to know why teams are good and why other teams are the Hawks just watch stuff like that and then try and remember a single time all season one of our players sold out their body 100% to dive for a ball.

We got dbags like Huerter who dives for loose balls the way a con artist lays on the ground in a store pretending to be the victim of a slip and fall.    Bogi dives for balls like he's playing the Hokey Pokey...you stick your left foot in and your left foot out you do the hokey pokey and you shake it all about.

 

Hunter doesn't dive because what's the point, if he were to come up with the ball it would jus slip out of his hands.

 

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

This is such an exagerration I don't know where to start. Y'all act like the team never scores without Trae on the floor lol!!!

Boo for the logical fallacy.  What I'm talking about has nothing to do with whether the team scores when Trae isn't on the floor.  (Although the numbers are very black and white for how well our offense runs when he is off the floor so I'm kind of puzzled you would bring this up at all even if it were relevant to whether secondary players excelling would open the floor up for Trae.  FWIW - Atlanta was 8.2 points better per 100 possessions when Trae was on the court and had a 117.2 ORTG when he was on the court versus a 107.2 rating.  The highest offensive rating for the Hawks when a player was on the court was Trae's and the lowest when off the court was also Trae's.)

I'll you that it was an exaggeration to say that Miami doesn't mind sending the whole team at him if you read that as meaning they send 4 or 5 guys at a time at him but I was more meaning that every player on the floor at times has been asked to do something with the end goal of shutting down Trae whether that is guarding him directly, helping on him, stepping out to cut off his passing or driving lanes, etc.

I'll tell you where to start for discussing the "chicken and egg" issue I raised.  Tell me which of these premises is wrong and then drill down on which one(s) and why:

1. Miami has schemed to deliberately devoting a lot of defensive attention to Trae whenever he has the ball, including at various times doubling him, face guarding him, and setting up next level defenders ready to pick him up when he gets by his man. 
2. Trae has gotten significantly more attention than anyone else on the team.
3. No big man has been able to consistently punish Miami for applying that pressure to Trae.
4. No wing has been able to consistently punish Miami for applying that pressure to Trae.
5. Miami has not been given any sign that we have a secondary (let alone tertiary) option capable of consistently providing impact scoring that might make them hesitate to scheme specifically for Trae.

[FL_BRYANT]

6 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Not over.

After calling people out you come back with this old weak meme. Please!

 

[Peoriabird]

28 minutes ago, AHF said:

Boo for the logical fallacy.  What I'm talking about has nothing to do with whether the team scores when Trae isn't on the floor.  (Although the numbers are very black and white for how well our offense runs when he is off the floor so I'm kind of puzzled you would bring this up at all even if it were relevant to whether secondary players excelling would open the floor up for Trae.  FWIW - Atlanta was 8.2 points better per 100 possessions when Trae was on the court and had a 117.2 ORTG when he was on the court versus a 107.2 rating.  The highest offensive rating for the Hawks when a player was on the court was Trae's and the lowest when off the court was also Trae's.)

I'll you that it was an exaggeration to say that Miami doesn't mind sending the whole team at him if you read that as meaning they send 4 or 5 guys at a time at him but I was more meaning that every player on the floor at times has been asked to do something with the end goal of shutting down Trae whether that is guarding him directly, helping on him, stepping out to cut off his passing or driving lanes, etc.

I'll tell you where to start for discussing the "chicken and egg" issue I raised.  Tell me which of these premises is wrong and then drill down on which one(s) and why:

1. Miami has schemed to deliberately devoting a lot of defensive attention to Trae whenever he has the ball, including at various times doubling him, face guarding him, and setting up next level defenders ready to pick him up when he gets by his man. 
2. Trae has gotten significantly more attention than anyone else on the team.
3. No big man has been able to consistently punish Miami for applying that pressure to Trae.
4. No wing has been able to consistently punish Miami for applying that pressure to Trae.
5. Miami has not been given any sign that we have a secondary (let alone tertiary) option capable of consistently providing impact scoring that might make them hesitate to scheme specifically for Trae.

You act like Miami is leaving players wide open because of the attention Trae is receiving. This is laughable. The reason all of the Hawks are shooting a low percentage is because of the Heat defense not because of the lack of defense.  I don't know what games you are watching but I see every Hawks player under pressure when they have the ball in their hands

[macdaddy]

45 minutes ago, shakes said:

if you want to know why teams are good and why other teams are the Hawks just watch stuff like that and then try and remember a single time all season one of our players sold out their body 100% to dive for a ball.

I guess you didn't watch the Charlotte game last week when Trae dove head first to get a ball knocked into the charlotte backcourt?

[AHF]

11 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

You act like Miami is leaving players wide open because of the attention Trae is receiving. This is laughable. The reason all of the Hawks are shooting a low percentage is because of the Heat defense not because of the lack of defense.  I don't know what games you are watching but I see every Hawks player under pressure when they have the ball in their hands

What premises do you disagree with?  I'm not sure if you ready the prior post but there are five of them.  You may agree with some and disagree with others.  Interested in your take.

[shakes]

13 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I guess you didn't watch the Charlotte game last week when Trae dove head first to get a ball knocked into the charlotte backcourt?

I'm not talking about Trae, he's immune to most of my critiques of the team.  He's also the only player on the team willing to stand in there and get run over for a charge.    No doubt he is the toughest player on the team.

 

But cute that you can remember the one time someone on the team dove hard for a ball cause it's that's rare.

[Spud2nique]

45 minutes ago, FL_BRYANT said:

After calling people out

About what? I just said haters come out when we lose and not so much when we win. I don’t call people out about other things everyone has their opinion.

[Spud2nique]

47 minutes ago, FL_BRYANT said:

After calling people out you come back with this old weak meme. Please!

 

BTW this meme is older than the internet and prolly yourself so, a little respect for the meme please. Sheesh  

[terrell]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

About what? I just said haters come out when we lose and not so much when we win. I don’t call people out about other things everyone has their opinion.

You put my name in your comment, when Im here win or lose..

[SalvorMallow]

12 minutes ago, shakes said:

I'm not talking about Trae, he's immune to most of my critiques of the team.  He's also the only player on the team willing to stand in there and get run over for a charge.    No doubt he is the toughest player on the team.

 

But cute that you can remember the one time someone on the team dove hard for a ball cause it's that's rare.

Sad, but true. Watching the Memphis/Timberwolves series, there are bodies all over the court on every play. Both them teams are playing hard as hell. I wish we had a little more of that on our roster.

[Spud2nique]

Just now, terrell said:

You put my name in your comment, when Im here win or lose..

No yours is a lil different guy. You always say stuff like “we shoulda”… “we coulda” gimme those 3 picks back 7,10,17. For what, what were you gonna do? Being a GM isn’t easy that’s all I’m saying.

I do give you credit though Terrell because at least you show up like you said either way, good stuff.

[NBASupes]

39 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

You act like Miami is leaving players wide open because of the attention Trae is receiving. This is laughable. The reason all of the Hawks are shooting a low percentage is because of the Heat defense not because of the lack of defense.  I don't know what games you are watching but I see every Hawks player under pressure when they have the ball in their hands

This is true. Especially in game 4. Game 2 and 3, there was a lot of wide open shots. In game 4, Bogi and Kev were getting doubled too. They didn't double or even try to double Hunter and Delon. Nor did they double any big outside of Gallo and they only did that if he went to his post up. Miami swarms at elite speeds. It's truly elite, especially in game 4 on the road for them.

[SalvorMallow]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This is true. Especially in game 4. Game 2 and 3, there was a lot of wide open shots. In game 4, Bogi and Kev were getting doubled too. They didn't double or even try to double Hunter and Delon. Nor did they double any big outside of Gallo and they only did that if he went to his post up. Miami swarms at elite speeds. It's truly elite, especially in game 4 on the road for them.

That's because we don't pass the ball quickly or run actions off the ball. Of course all they have to do is pressure the ball handler if there is nothing else going on.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

That's because we don't pass the ball quickly or run actions off the ball. Of course all they have to do is pressure the ball handler if there is nothing else going on.

It's not easy to run off ball actions on a heliocentric team. You gotta have movement players. Our only movement players is Capela and JC and JC is the only one elite at it and he's like 60%. 

Someone said something stupid like, it's the scheme. No it's not dummy. It's the personnel. Danny Green plays like Danny Green everywhere. Klay plays like Klay. Movement players gonna play their game. Kyle Korver was moving off the ball in Chicago system based around Noah and Rose as he was in Horford and Teague system. Movement players have a movement skillset. In heliocentric ball, they can only do so much but we don't have guys who are capable and to be honest. Guys like Duncan Robinson and Joe Harris who can do it are expensive because IT'S hard to find!

[Peoriabird]

49 minutes ago, AHF said:

What premises do you disagree with?  I'm not sure if you ready the prior post but there are five of them.  You may agree with some and disagree with others.  Interested in your take.

I disagree that Hawk players were open because of the attention Trae was receiving and just flat out missed open shots. Proving that Trae Young got no support on offense.

[terrell]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

True.  Should give them a shot to win in Miami.

I'd be shocked but happy...

But Im kinda ready to get it over with and some off season moves.... It's inevitable that it's pretty much over for us this season.... The blueprint is out...

Edited April 25, 2022 by terrell