Official Playoff Game Thread: heat at Hawks -- GAME 4

[Watchman]

2 hours ago, SalvorMallow said:

 

It isn't ALL Trae's fault, its is a coaching issue. We are running Nate's playbook and the results are plain for anyone to see.

Please see the slight modification above.  However, you are absolutely right about Nate's "playbook."

[Watchman]

21 hours ago, terrell said:

43 million next year for JC and Huerter.. Let that sink in.. Good grief.. Schlenk should be on the phone looking for buyers as we speak...

Schlenk should be unemployed.  He drafts small, he signs small free agents, and trades for small players.  Three centers and the tallest one is 6'10".

[Peoriabird]

22 minutes ago, AHF said:

I posted looks from last game.

You didn't... You posted the entire series but I'll help jog your memory from last night.  Trae young accounted for 1 Hunter assisted basket and it was a 3 with zero potential assisted baskets meaning that Hunter had an open shot created by Young but just missed it.  Young did have a hockey assist but it was just a routine around the horn type play.  Huerter actually got the assist.

[Peoriabird]

Huerter was assisted by Young on only 1 shot...A contested 3.  There was one other potential assist that Huerter missed  while having a wide open look but that is it folks.  On that play Young was not being pressured.  Huerter's other attempts were either created by someone else or he was creating his own shot off the dribble.  So I don't see all of these opportunities caused by Young creating holes in the Heat defense at the expense of his own offense.

[Sothron]

Random question: do we ever run off ball screen or motion plays? One of the ways to beat this defense Miami is doing is to run off ball screen action to free up someone. They are double teaming Trae every possession. That leaves someone wide open. 

Nate has really been shown up this series in the coaching department. I don't know how else to put it and still be honest.

[hylndr11]

45 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Schlenk should be unemployed.  He drafts small, he signs small free agents, and trades for small players.  Three centers and the tallest one is 6'10".

I understand why everybody's mad but this can't be realistic to expect that shrink should be fired after the first time he assembled a team around a superstar he drafted they went to the Eastern conference finals,. Too much hindsight here he even already called himself out wondering if he should have brought everybody back from last year

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, hylndr11 said:

I understand why everybody's mad but this can't be realistic to expect that shrink should be fired after the first time he assembled a team around a superstar he drafted they went to the Eastern conference finals,. Too much hindsight here he even already called himself out wondering if he should have brought everybody back from last year

Too many hot takes and unrealistic responses.

[JayBirdHawk]

Pace, pace, pace...we lack it.

 

 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

You didn't... You posted the entire series but I'll help jog your memory from last night.  Trae young accounted for 1 Hunter assisted basket and it was a 3 with zero potential assisted baskets meaning that Hunter had an open shot created by Young but just missed it.  Young did have a hockey assist but it was just a routine around the horn type play.  Huerter actually got the assist.

I posted open shots from game 4 among shots from other games.  Open shots every game for Hunter.  That hadn’t changed because he isn’t marked anything like Trae is.  No one is.  And no one has made Miami pay.

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Good to dream, keep hope alive....and I'm here for it.

It’s not over till Zion sings  Oh boy my inner kg and I can’t stop 

[FL_BRYANT]

13 hours ago, Diesel said:

Pace is on the coach. 

Nate coaches a slow pace.  He allows the walk up.  He wants us to play every series as a halfcourt set.   Nate is the problem. 

We have to improve pace.  Capella can do it.  JC can do it.  I believe that Trae can do it.   We should be a running and gunning team but instead we are a lazy, slow team.  

I've always said, we are a playoff team because during the season we perfect the halfcourt game.   And while that is true and you see it in our sets... we do have power going to the corner three, even started off last night with great halfcourt play...  Mental errors takes us out too easily.   The reason the second team is so much better than the first unit is they increase the pace.  Delon doesn't really push.. Lou has trained them that everybody goes up the court and we're moving the ball by the pass.   Our second unit catches defenses off guard.   The only time they look bad is when Bogi goes Hero balling and start hunting for his shot instead of rotating the ball. 

Somebody said we miss Hunt and Garland.  I guess I agree.   If those guys were responsible for having the pace up then we miss them.   But a Nate coached team will always suffer from pace. 

You know under Lloyd Pierce 2018-2019 we were first in Pace 5th in Fast Break points.  In 2019-2020 , we were 5th in Pace.   Today, we're 20th in Pace and dead last in Fast break points. 

If we get rid of Nate... First call to Mr. 7 seconds...Mike D'Antoni.   Everything we think of as a Flaw, he will find the good in it. 

 

 

I'm not sure exactly where the fault lies. I've heard Nate say more than once that we have to play with more pace . To play with more pace Trae has to be willing to give up the ball. Anyway if you combine pace with our half court game we are a tough team to beat. Add in some size and Defense then you are competing for a chip. We obviously need some upgrades because with the current rate of usage we are setting Trae up for injury. 

[Peoriabird]

7 hours ago, AHF said:

 No one is.  And no one has made Miami pay.

So Bogi didn't hit a bunch of shots in game 3? Why are you doing this?

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, FL_BRYANT said:

I'm not sure exactly where the fault lies. I've heard Nate say more than once that we have to play with more pace . To play with more pace Trae has to be willing to give up the ball. Anyway if you combine pace with our half court game we are a tough team to beat. Add in some size and Defense then you are competing for a chip. We obviously need some upgrades because with the current rate of usage we are setting Trae up for injury. 

Yeah... you can't just say play with more pace though... it's got to be practiced.  You play like you practice.  The idea of 7 second offense originated with Paul Westhead.   He is the creator of the Carolina Break.   This is a taught fast break.  In fact, he had about 8 different plays from a fast break and he demanded that every time his players take the ball out of the bucket, that they were running it up the floor. 

This is Roy Williams version... something that we can do. 

 

This is the original LMU Fastbreak offense. 

 

I was a big UM fan and I watched this team run UM to death.   The thing that made it successful is that you couldn't trap LMU players.   You could barely get back on defense... and the Offense knows where it's going everytime.   They are running to their spots and the rim runner is the first option and the trailer comes behind him as he clears out. 

Now I'm not saying that we have to run a fastbreak offense.   What I'm saying is that you practice pace.  It's something that is a part of your offensive scheme.   We are so efficient because we slow pace.   I've shown that under LP we were a better paced team than now.  Now, we are the slow plodding team that Nate always brings. 

 

 

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

So Bogi didn't hit a bunch of shots in game 3? Why are you doing this?

Now you are making the argument that Bogi has consistently made them pay?  But no I don’t think any wing or big has satisfied either of those premises.

Why I am doing it is obvious if you watch the team.  Miami can suffocate Trae because no one is a viable threat to make them pay.  I don’t know how many articles have to be posted discussing this but that is the root of this discussion.  Miami doesn’t fear Bogi (or Huerter or Hunter or CC or JC or OO or Delon, etc.) making them pay for selling out to swarm Trae.  And that goes back to why us Trae struggling. He owns some of it but as Supes and D have described it Trae is getting a Jordan Rules type of defensive focus.  That won’t change without secondary and tertiary legit threats.

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Now you are making the argument that Bogi has consistently made them pay?  But no I don’t think any wing or big has satisfied either of those premises.

Why I am doing it is obvious if you watch the team.  Miami can suffocate Trae because no one is a viable threat to make them pay.  I don’t know how many articles have to be posted discussing this but that is the root of this discussion.  Miami doesn’t fear Bogi (or Huerter or Hunter or CC or JC or OO or Delon, etc.) making them pay for selling out to swarm Trae.  And that goes back to why us Trae struggling. He owns some of it but as Supes and D have described it Trae is getting a Jordan Rules type of defensive focus.  That won’t change without secondary and tertiary legit threats.

Your statement was "No one has made Miami pay"!  My response was this is not true.  Bogi hit a lot of shots in game 3. I don't think either Okungwu or Wright missed a shot in game 3. Hunter missed only 2 of 8 shots in game 1 so your statement is obviously false and I can't figure out for the life of me why you are saying things that can be easily proven false.

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Yeah... you can't just say play with more pace though... it's got to be practiced.  You play like you practice.  The idea of 7 second offense originated with Paul Westhead.   He is the creator of the Carolina Break.   This is a taught fast break.  In fact, he had about 8 different plays from a fast break and he demanded that every time his players take the ball out of the bucket, that they were running it up the floor. 

This is Roy Williams version... something that we can do. 

 

This is the original LMU Fastbreak offense. 

 

I was a big UM fan and I watched this team run UM to death.   The thing that made it successful is that you couldn't trap LMU players.   You could barely get back on defense... and the Offense knows where it's going everytime.   They are running to their spots and the rim runner is the first option and the trailer comes behind him as he clears out. 

Now I'm not saying that we have to run a fastbreak offense.   What I'm saying is that you practice pace.  It's something that is a part of your offensive scheme.   We are so efficient because we slow pace.   I've shown that under LP we were a better paced team than now.  Now, we are the slow plodding team that Nate always brings. 

 

 

Is that Loy Vaught? Whoa I haven’t said that in like 20 years lol.

[Diesel]

22 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Is that Loy Vaught? Whoa I haven’t said that in like 20 years lol.

Yep....

That LMU team played an LSU team that featured Shaq.  Shaq and Stanley Roberts dominated the paint and the board and LSU squeaked by.  That LSU team went into the tourney and lost to a Ga Tech team that featured the big three of Dennis Scott, Kenny Anderson and .... Brian Oliver... Lethal Weapon 3...

 

Lethal Weapon 3 lost a heartbreaker to the eventual champs... UNLV

 

The Hawks then drafted Plastic Man Stacey Augmon with the 9th pick of the draft.

[AHF]

29 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Your statement was "No one has made Miami pay"!  My response was this is not true.  Bogi hit a lot of shots in game 3. I don't think either Okungwu or Wright missed a shot in game 3. Hunter missed only 2 of 8 shots in game 1 so your statement is obviously false and I can't figure out for the life of me why you are saying things that can be easily proven false.

I think you like to move the goal posts.  I don't for a second think you are too stupid to remember where this conversation started and what we are talking about.  Here is what we've all been talking about:

1. Miami has schemed to deliberately devoting a lot of defensive attention to Trae whenever he has the ball, including at various times doubling him, face guarding him, and setting up next level defenders ready to pick him up when he gets by his man. 
2. Trae has gotten significantly more attention than anyone else on the team.
3. No big man has been able to consistently punish Miami for applying that pressure to Trae.
4. No wing has been able to consistently punish Miami for applying that pressure to Trae.
5. Miami has not been given any sign that we have a secondary (let alone tertiary) option capable of consistently providing impact scoring that might make them hesitate to scheme specifically for Trae.

You can't play dumb to me and pretend you didn't understand that I referenced those same 5 premises when I talked about punishing Miami.  You are a smart poster and I know better than that.

No one has "been able to consistently punish Miami."  Bogi had a good game but is has 6 and 4 points in two of the games.  That is the definition of inconsistent.

You are making me LMAO now arguing that OO and Wright are consistent punishers.  They took a combined 10 FGA in 53 minutes of play in Game 3.  They converted nicely on those shots but Miami isn't changing how they defend because someone might take a shot every 5-6 minutes of play when given space.  Hunter's 14 points in game 1 didn't change how he or Trae were defended.  Hunter has been left open a lot all series.

(Don't confuse me of criticizing Wright this series.  He has been fantastic.  Great and highly impactful defense.  But this isn't a situation where he is an offensive threat.  As much as we wanted him to be more aggressive this year, that just isn't who he is as a player.  He is someone comparable to Tony Snell where he makes a good % but doesn't take many shots so doesn't impact how teams defend the Hawks.)

 

[Peoriabird]

38 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think you like to move the goal posts.  I don't for a second think you are too stupid to remember where this conversation started and what we are talking about.  Here is what we've all been talking about:

1. Miami has schemed to deliberately devoting a lot of defensive attention to Trae whenever he has the ball, including at various times doubling him, face guarding him, and setting up next level defenders ready to pick him up when he gets by his man. 
2. Trae has gotten significantly more attention than anyone else on the team.
3. No big man has been able to consistently punish Miami for applying that pressure to Trae.
4. No wing has been able to consistently punish Miami for applying that pressure to Trae.
5. Miami has not been given any sign that we have a secondary (let alone tertiary) option capable of consistently providing impact scoring that might make them hesitate to scheme specifically for Trae.

You can't play dumb to me and pretend you didn't understand that I referenced those same 5 premises when I talked about punishing Miami.  You are a smart poster and I know better than that.

No one has "been able to consistently punish Miami."  Bogi had a good game but is has 6 and 4 points in two of the games.  That is the definition of inconsistent.

You are making me LMAO now arguing that OO and Wright are consistent punishers.  They took a combined 10 FGA in 53 minutes of play in Game 3.  They converted nicely on those shots but Miami isn't changing how they defend because someone might take a shot every 5-6 minutes of play when given space.  Hunter's 14 points in game 1 didn't change how he or Trae were defended.  Hunter has been left open a lot all series.

(Don't confuse me of criticizing Wright this series.  He has been fantastic.  Great and highly impactful defense.  But this isn't a situation where he is an offensive threat.  As much as we wanted him to be more aggressive this year, that just isn't who he is as a player.  He is someone comparable to Tony Snell where he makes a good % but doesn't take many shots so doesn't impact how teams defend the Hawks.)

 

I copied your statement! How is that moving goal post?

[Peoriabird]

Plus Hunter by himself is shooting over 57% from the field and over 47% from 3 for the series. Are your expectations higher than that????