Official Game Thread: Hawks at Pistons (Wednesday)

[REHawksFan]

20 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

He's making $19.5 million so only Bogi's salary would match.

Detroit had capspace to absorb the salary difference.

I'd trade our Bogi for their Bogi but they'd never do that. 

[Wretch]

15 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I don't like Nate's offense.

Not enough ball and player movement- 10 measly assists. This hunting for mismatches - hate it hate it hate it....it leaves players having to do too much 1 on 1.

Still suck at guarding the 3, and unfortunately our attempts are too low to be sustainable.

15 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Nate's offense is built for 90s basketball

15 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

The spacing is limited with our offense. The Pistons can sag off our shooters to help stop drives and we can't punish them because no one wants to put shots up. Both Holiday's don't need to be on the court at the same time.

Ya'll...  Let's be clear...  I'm not coming to any firm conclusions about the roster or individual players per the terms of my 25 Games In^Ⓒ pledge.  I'm certainly not interested in putting any fuel on an eventual pro/anti-Nate dichotomy should we continue to see nights like this.  That being said, @JayBirdHawk, @JeffS17, @nathan2331...all of these are my thoughts exactly.  Except, I've kept my mouth shut.  Especially THIS:

15 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Schlenk made a nice offseason move getting Murray, but Nate is not may not be the coach for two very capable high-level playmaking guards.  His solution is to just stagger their minutes and have them take turns when they're sharing the court.

First of all, I EFFIN' HATE THIS.  But dude, this is like word for word my exact thoughts through 8 games...interjecting my own "wait and see" strikethrough correction because it takes time to integrate a new dynamic like Murray.  I'm not calling Nate a bad coach...and let me say that again before I have to do 20 pages of explaining literally what I just said...

I'M NOT CALLING NATE A BAD COACH

 

...nor do I think we're looking at a finished product.  However, I do see a pattern and apparently ya'll are seeing it too.

[Atlantaholic]

27 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

That is how Nate has run the rotation in every game so far.  Trae and the bench to end the first quarter for about 3+ minutes.  Then he starts the 2nd quarter with DJ and the bench.

Yea, we've had pretty much the exact same rotation every game. Tweaks have come due to foul trouble only,

[AHF]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We were asking for him to play spot minutes (in lieu of playing TLC), if he played well in his first minutes in the first half, he'd get additional minutes in the 2nd half.  Doing that would have ideally would have prepared him for a backup role this season.

Here's my main issue, from the moment we signed Gallo and the last year of his contract was not fully guaranteed - I assumed he would not be on the team for the final year of his contract- we should have been grooming his replacement last year (particularly since he was also a trade candidate) and we would not be having to through JJ to the wolves this year (which I'm fine with at the moment).

Exactly.  The other reason besides having JJ farther down the road of being developed was so that our GM would know what we had and how far JJ was away from being able to be a significant contributor.  We are seeing his only genuine time against NBA competition this year.  Had that happened last year, our GM would have had better data to decide how much depth we needed on the roster at PF.  

Getting that sense of "how lost is JJ right now" last year would also have given JJ more focus on his development and film study this offseason.  I was always talking about some of the minutes that TLC and Knox got.  Not talking about displacing Gallo for JJ.  It was obvious neither TLC nor Knox would be back but that we would likely be relying on JJ to play a real role in the rotation.

[JayBirdHawk]

SMH. Saw this too many times in the game.  Call a moving screen.

 

 

[Wretch]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

SMH. Saw this too many times in the game.  Call a moving screen.

 

 

There was a lot of WILD officiating going on last night.  I loved the foot-long scratch on Trae's neck lol.  They're like, "You're bleeding...get off the court."  Trae's like, "I know right?  How TF did that happen!?"

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

SMH. Saw this too many times in the game.  Call a moving screen.

 

 

When I played FB, I protected the QB the same way.

Next game, maybe they try a chop block.

 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Getting that sense of "how lost is JJ right now" last year would also have given JJ more focus on his development and film study this offseason.  I was always talking about some of the minutes that TLC and Knox got.  Not talking about displacing Gallo for JJ.  It was obvious neither TLC nor Knox would be back but that we would likely be relying on JJ to play a real role in the rotation.

See this is that BS. 

JJ is lost now.  Was probably more lost last year. 

Did you forget we were the defending EC Finalist.  You don't step up to go backwards.  Moreover, last year, aside from being lost, JJ was ALWAYS HURT.   COVID twice.  Busted Glute.  Knee injury.. and one time he just asked to be sent to G-League.   Even JJ realized that he was lost.  YET.. the expectation is while we're trying to get ourselves into contention to compete for a higher seed, we got time to do what developing teams do and play our lost players. 

Here it is...  Knox impressed in practice more than JJ did and Knox sucks.. but Knox was trusted more than JJ.  Now, we have a good team once again.. and all of you JJ lovers have JJ on the court and you see what Nate and his coaches saw in practice last year.   This kid is athletic but he's a project.  So stop your complaining about where he's at now... he's playing.  You got your wish.  If we lose games because he's playing.. just think.. he'll be so much better next year!!

 

 

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

 

[MarylandHawk]

3 hours ago, Wretch said:

Ya'll...  Let's be clear...  I'm not coming to any firm conclusions about the roster or individual players per the terms of my 25 Games In^Ⓒ pledge.  I'm certainly not interested in putting any fuel on an eventual pro/anti-Nate dichotomy should we continue to see nights like this.  That being said, @JayBirdHawk, @JeffS17, @nathan2331...all of these are my thoughts exactly.  Except, I've kept my mouth shut.  Especially THIS:

First of all, I EFFIN' HATE THIS.  But dude, this is like word for word my exact thoughts through 8 games...interjecting my own "wait and see" strikethrough correction because it takes time to integrate a new dynamic like Murray.  I'm not calling Nate a bad coach...and let me say that again before I have to do 20 pages of explaining literally what I just said...

I'M NOT CALLING NATE A BAD COACH

 

...nor do I think we're looking at a finished product.  However, I do see a pattern and apparently ya'll are seeing it too.

I think he is probably the best coach you will find for this scenario. He and Gary Payton were two guards with similar skills that played well together and made it all the way to the finals. He does need to keep tweaking until he gets it right. I think Bogi is the missing piece. That shooting, even the threat of it, is what is missing so far. 

[MarylandHawk]

9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Capella was fantastic from the 3rd quarter on.   

[MarylandHawk]

That fourth quarter was great to watch. That level of energy on offense and defense is what I have been clamoring for.  Let’s hope this is a team that can play at the level night in and night out for at least 40 mins a game. 

[MarylandHawk]

Seems like I am the only who thinks JJ is doing just fine with the minutes he has been given.  Not forcing things and making plays when he needs to. People need to remember this is his first week of real nba basketball and he is the 9th option on the team.  I like what I see so far. 

[JayBirdHawk]

14 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

Seems like I am the only who thinks JJ is doing just fine with the minutes he has been given.  Not forcing things and making plays when he needs to. People need to remember this is his first week of real nba basketball and he is the 9th option on the team.  I like what I see so far. 

I would like for him to grab some more rebounds and just hustle - the rest will come.

2022-23	21	ATL	NBA	SF	4	0	12.0	1.3	2.8	.455	0.3	1.3	.200	1.0	1.5	.667	.500	1.5	2.0	.750	0.5	1.3	1.8	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.5	1.3	4.3

 

I think it would be helpful if he gets in the open court, get quick easy buckets.  We are walking the ball up the court far too often.  Pick up the Pace.

[MarylandHawk]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I would like for him to grab some more rebounds and just hustle - the rest will come.

2022-23	21	ATL	NBA	SF	4	0	12.0	1.3	2.8	.455	0.3	1.3	.200	1.0	1.5	.667	.500	1.5	2.0	.750	0.5	1.3	1.8	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.5	1.3	4.3

 

I think it would be helpful if he gets in the open court, get quick easy buckets.  We are walking the ball up the court far too often.  Pick up the Pace.

Agreed this is my stance for the whole team though except John. He is playing with the pace and energy we need on both ends of the floor. When everyone matches his level on both ends consistently, we will be hard to beat. 

[Final_quest]

24 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

Seems like I am the only who thinks JJ is doing just fine with the minutes he has been given.  Not forcing things and making plays when he needs to. People need to remember this is his first week of real nba basketball and he is the 9th option on the team.  I like what I see so far. 

I’m a little shocked at how quick people are to judge him.  My thing last year was after reaching the ECF and playing below .500, they couldn’t afford to season him.  We would have missed the playoffs.  

It’s four games in, and everyone is like: “canceled.” 

[AHF]

56 minutes ago, Diesel said:

See this is that BS. 

JJ is lost now.  Was probably more lost last year. 

Did you forget we were the defending EC Finalist.  You don't step up to go backwards.  Moreover, last year, aside from being lost, JJ was ALWAYS HURT.   COVID twice.  Busted Glute.  Knee injury.. and one time he just asked to be sent to G-League.   Even JJ realized that he was lost.  YET.. the expectation is while we're trying to get ourselves into contention to compete for a higher seed, we got time to do what developing teams do and play our lost players. 

Here it is...  Knox impressed in practice more than JJ did and Knox sucks.. but Knox was trusted more than JJ.  Now, we have a good team once again.. and all of you JJ lovers have JJ on the court and you see what Nate and his coaches saw in practice last year.   This kid is athletic but he's a project.  So stop your complaining about where he's at now... he's playing.  You got your wish.  If we lose games because he's playing.. just think.. he'll be so much better next year!!

 

I agree that Nate trusted in his 4th year as a failed lottery pick over the much more raw JJ.  I didn't buy into the premise that by mid-season we looked like anything special such that we couldn't find any minutes for JJ.  And we knew what we were getting from Knox.  He was terrible in NY and was terrible for us.

He shot 35% from the floor and 19% from 3 for us last season.  Jalen Johnson had a terrible -4.9 BPM for us last year and Knox had an even worse -6.9 BPM.  JJ had a terrible 11.3 PER while KK had an even worse 10.1 PER.  Both had terrible -0.1 VORPs for us.  

We knew neither guy was likely to give us anything approaching decent play.  In my view, if TS was going to let Gallo walk (as seemed obvious) and look to JJ as the replacement (as seemed like a high probability potential outcome) it would have been worth it to put more focus on developing JJ especially when the alternative is a terrible player giving you terrible minutes.  Now that doesn't mean playing him when he is hurt but he was no-played when healthy numerous times and kept in college park when he could have been playing in Atlanta.  For some of the season that made sense - 30 minutes in CP is probably more valuable than 8 minutes in Atlanta for a guy who has played so little the last few years.  But at a certain point, more time in the G-League became less valuable than more time against real NBA players.

But reasonable minds can disagree on that and clearly we do.

FWIW, I'm a UK fan so I root for Knox to turn his career around but I wanted no part of him returning to Atlanta this season and I don't think TS/LF even considered it.

[JayBirdHawk]

57 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

Seems like I am the only who thinks JJ is doing just fine with the minutes he has been given.  Not forcing things and making plays when he needs to. People need to remember this is his first week of real nba basketball and he is the 9th option on the team.  I like what I see so far. 

Plays like these are what I'm looking forward to seeing from JJ  - AHol gotta finish that though.

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

Refs have been bad!

All True!

 

On the flipside, I'm seeing so many push offs that are going uncalled.

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

Doubling Trae!