Trae

[Diesel]

9 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

because his offense isn't good enough to win on most nights vs good teams. 

Uhm...  we got 2 wins on the Bucks and we just beat Denver.

 I think that there is a lot of people overreacting to a small sample size and making conclusions based on nothing.  The haters can have their moment, but let's not throw truth out of the window because of it. 

 

[REHawksFan]

5 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Can Trae?

Well if we are speaking about TS%, all we can say is Trae is A LOT closer to Curry than AI.  

AI:  Highest TS% in career - 56.7%  / Career avg. 51.8%

Trae: Highest - 60.3% / Career avg. 58.0%

Steph:  Highest - 67.5% / Career avg. 62.6%

Trae's WORST TS% is 53.9% in his rookie season. That's higher than 11 of AI's 14 seasons.  None of that means that Trae is going to equal Steph over time, but he's a hell of a lot better than AI from a TS% standpoint.  

[Hawkmoor]

10 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Well if we are speaking about TS%, all we can say is Trae is A LOT closer to Curry than AI.  

AI:  Highest TS% in career - 56.7%  / Career avg. 51.8%

Trae: Highest - 60.3% / Career avg. 58.0%

Steph:  Highest - 67.5% / Career avg. 62.6%

Trae's WORST TS% is 53.9% in his rookie season. That's higher than 11 of AI's 14 seasons.  None of that means that Trae is going to equal Steph over time, but he's a hell of a lot better than AI from a TS% standpoint.  

I agree.  The problem is DOES Trae want to put in the work like Steph?  Nate wasn't personally picking on Trae, he is basically saying that the pre game drill is a part of working hard, being a team player, etc.  Nate was 1,000 percent correct in telling Trae that if he doesn't wanna participate he can go home or come off the bench.  There is more there that has lead up to this.  In fact, the Hawks are still protecting Trae by keeping this stuff hush, hush.  Nate is caught in the middle of a now win situation as a proper head coach.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Hawkmoor

[JayBirdHawk]

If anyone thinks Nate showed 'balls' he didn't as he didn't follow through.

If there was a flare up and he wanted to discipline him - it should have been 'you are coming off the bench' end of story. The whole getting treatment stuff vs the walk through is eye raising. We've seen players be game time decisions based on injuries all the time and if they are good to go - they start like normal. Not come off the bench or don't show up. (That's stupid).

Maybe frustrations boiled over but that's not the right approach for Nate to give him the either or option in this instance. Or it should have been 'off the bench or sit out the game'.

But the biggest thing is then Nate cut himself off at the knees by saying it was a Miscommunication, so this doesn't come across well in my eyes.

 

5 hours ago, benhillboy said:

Finally Nate shows some balls in dealing with this kid. Steph came off the bench in the playoffs for an eventual championship team. You can’t make this shit up lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Diesel]

8 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Well if we are speaking about TS%, all we can say is Trae is A LOT closer to Curry than AI.  

AI:  Highest TS% in career - 56.7%  / Career avg. 51.8%

Trae: Highest - 60.3% / Career avg. 58.0%

Steph:  Highest - 67.5% / Career avg. 62.6%

Trae's WORST TS% is 53.9% in his rookie season. That's higher than 11 of AI's 14 seasons.  None of that means that Trae is going to equal Steph over time, but he's a hell of a lot better than AI from a TS% standpoint.  

The truth is that we don't need Trae to be Steph.. We need Trae to be Trae.  This has been damn ridiculous.   You give a joker an inch, he will take a mile... you give a joker a rope, he will want to be a cowboy.  That's what this thread and this rumor have been.  The Trae haters are in their full glory... much worse than when we lose a game.   And at the same time, they want to call themselves "Hawks Fans".   Really?  Don't seem like it.  

So now, Trae has to be Curry to satisfy what?  Who?  To win a championship??  Oh, that's the new blueprint?  Crazy.

 

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If anyone thinks Nate showed 'balls' he didn't as he didn't follow through.

If there was a flare up and he wanted to discipline him - it should have been 'you are coming off the bench' end of story. The whole getting treatment stuff vs the walk through is eye raising. We've seen players be game time decisions based on injuries all the time and if they are good to go - they start like normal. Not come off the bench or don't show up. (That's stupid).

Maybe frustrations boiled over but that's not the right approach for Nate to give him the either or option in this instance. Or it should have been 'off the bench or sit out the game'.

But the biggest thing is then Nate cut himself off at the knees by saying it was a Miscommunication, so this doesn't come across well in my eyes.

 

5 hours ago, benhillboy said:

Finally Nate shows some balls in dealing with this kid. Steph came off the bench in the playoffs for an eventual championship team. You can’t make this shit up lol.

I think you can make this shit up.   It's how I feel everytime I hear from somebody who has "sources".  At any rate, sources or not, we're running with a narrative and don't have all the information.   We got bits and pieces over here, rumors over there, and somebody's conjecture over there... and trying to piece it all together to get what we think is a clear picture.   It's not going to work.

The Good news is that Coach prime is coming.   Time to get your UC stuff.

 

[REHawksFan]

11 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

I agree.  The problem is Trae, like Iverson, doesn't want to put in the work like Steph nor do they have the TEAM mindset like Steph.  Nate was personally picking on Trae, he is basically saying that the shot around is a part of working hard, being a team player, etc.  Nate was 1,000 percent correct in telling Trae that if he doesn't wanna participate he can go home or come off the bench.  There is more there that has lead up to this.  In fact, the Hawks are still protecting Trae by keeping this stuff hush, hush.  Nate is caught in the middle of a now win situation as a proper head coach.

I'm not sure why you are speaking definitively on things you don't know, some of which are just inaccurate.  

1. It's a flat out lie that Trae doesn't like to put in work. He is and has always been the hardest working guy on the team.  

2. You have no idea whether he has a TEAM mindset or not.  Just pure speculation on your part.

3. We don't know if there is more to this or not. And we don't know that Nate was correct in giving him an ultimatum.  This is just conjecture. And I'd argue it's skewing unfavorably toward Trae due to your own personal opinions about the player rather than any insight into the situation.  

Edited December 5, 2022 by REHawksFan

[marco102]

54 minutes ago, Sothron said:

 

I miss that show. One of mine and Mrs. Sothron's favorites.

You're in luck.  I think they are making a movie with the original cast. It was one of my favorites too.

[REHawksFan]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The truth is that we don't need Trae to be Steph.. We need Trae to be Trae.  This has been damn ridiculous.   You give a joker an inch, he will take a mile... you give a joker a rope, he will want to be a cowboy.  That's what this thread and this rumor have been.  The Trae haters are in their full glory... much worse than when we lose a game.   And at the same time, they want to call themselves "Hawks Fans".   Really?  Don't seem like it.  

So now, Trae has to be Curry to satisfy what?  Who?  To win a championship??  Oh, that's the new blueprint?  Crazy.

 

I agree with this.  I'm certainly not suggesting he has to be or even needs to be Curry.  I was just pushing back on this idea that he's nothing more than a volume shooter like Iverson.  That's simply not true.  And he's a lot closer to the impact of Curry than he is of Iverson.  I blame Supes as he gets a lot of respect on here for his knowledge of basketball and his insider scoops, but when he flies off the handle on Trae, he says a lot of dumb shit that then gets parroted by the guys that hate Trae.  And worse, they then build off of it to further their own "opinions" [agenda].

[Hawkmoor]

6 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I'm not sure why you are speaking definitively on things you don't know, some of which are just inaccurate.  

1. It's a flat out lie that Trae doesn't like to put in work. He is and has always been the hardest working guy on the team.  

2. You have no idea whether he has a TEAM mindset or not.  Just pure speculation on your part.

3. We don't if there is more to this or not. And we don't know that Nate was correct in giving him an ultimatum.  This just conjecture. And I'd argue it's skewing unfavorably toward Trae due to your own personal opinions about the player rather than any insight into the situation.  

1.  Nate is the head coach and is STILL the head coach.  In a league where star players are BEYOND PROTECTED by the organizations, if the Hawks front office felt Nate was wrong he would be out of there sooner than later.  The initial report from the Athletic said that MANY inside the Hawks front office are questioning Trae Young's leadership.  That news didn't come from any personal speculation from Hawkmoor.  

2.  I can see on TV that Trae's mindset is of a scorer first, point guard second.  Anybody can see it.  With Steph,  his shots come from a team mindset FIRST.  Anybody and everybody can see it.  I played basketball and have been watching the sport since 1979 or so and Trae is not gonna come along and convince me that his style of play is how you play point guard at ANY level of basketball.

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I agree with this.  I'm certainly not suggesting he has to be or even needs to be Curry.  I was just pushing back on this idea that he's nothing more than a volume shooter like Iverson.  That's simply not true.  And he's a lot closer to the impact of Curry than he is of Iverson.  I blame Supes as he gets a lot of respect on here for his knowledge of basketball and his insider scoops, but when he flies off the handle on Trae, he says a lot of dumb shit that then gets parroted by the guys that hate Trae.  And worse, they then build off of it to further their own "opinions" [agenda].

Supes problem with Trae is personal as he has let it be known in this thread. 

Makes everything make so much more sense.

[marco102]

1 minute ago, Hawkmoor said:

1.  Nate is the head coach and is STILL the head coach.  In a league where star players are BEYOND PROTECTED by the organizations, if the Hawks front office felt Nate was wrong he would be out of there sooner than later.  The initial report from the Athletic said that MANY inside the Hawks front office are questioning Trae Young's leadership.  That news didn't come from any personal speculation from Hawkmoor.  

2.  I can see on TV that Trae's mindset is of a scorer first, point guard second.  Anybody can see it.  With Steph,  his shots come from a team mindset FIRST.  Anybody and everybody can see it.  I played basketball and have been watching the sport since 1979 or so and Trae is not gonna come along and convince me that his style of play is how you play point guard at ANY level of basketball.

1. Many doesn't mean most.  Many could be 4 people out of 20 decision makers. 

2. Steph has a different mindset when he plays without Draymond and Klay.  With all that being said, Trae is still a better facilitator of offense than Curry.  Trae is also not in the same offensive system as Curry either.  The Warriors system is predicated on team ball.  The Hawks system is predicated on the pick and roll and making reads out of that. 

[REHawksFan]

2 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

1.  Nate is the head coach and is STILL the head coach.  In a league where star players are BEYOND PROTECTED by the organizations, if the Hawks front office felt Nate was wrong he would be out of there sooner than later.  The initial report from the Athletic said that MANY inside the Hawks front office are questioning Trae Young's leadership.  That news didn't come from any personal speculation from Hawkmoor.  

2.  I can see on TV that Trae's mindset is of a scorer first, point guard second.  Anybody can see it.  With Steph,  his shots come from a team mindset FIRST.  Anybody and everybody can see it.  I played basketball and have been watching the sport since 1979 or so and Trae is not gonna come along and convince me that his style of play is how you play point guard at ANY level of basketball.

Questioning his leadership is not the same thing as saying Trae doesn't work hard.  The hardest working guy on the team can still lack leadership ability due to immaturity.  And I know you are never going to be convinced of anything positive about Trae.  That's why I stated that your OPINIONS are being skewed by your personal dislike of the player.  That much is obvious from every one of your posts.  

[AHF]

41 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Can Trae?

No.  He will never be as good a shooter as Curry and he will always be a much better passer.  He is much, much closer to Curry than AI but Curry's shooting efficiency is historic.  Trae's efficiency should be very good (his .595% TS%, .589% TS%, and .603% TS% the last 3 seasons is great) but I don't think his 3pt shot will ever be consistent enough to push his TS% into the range of Curry.  Defensively Curry should be the aspiration as he isn't great but is better.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

32 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Bottom line is winning cures everything. So if we go on to have a successful season this will be just a blip on the radar screen. If we go to have an unsuccessful season this will be seen as the beginning of the end.

Well, we're 4th in the East right now, with a legit shot to finish the month very well.

[JeffS17]

I will be happy if Trae plays hard on defense tonight and we see higher ball movement on offense.  I look forward to forgetting about this flare up.

[Diesel]

13 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I agree with this.  I'm certainly not suggesting he has to be or even needs to be Curry.  I was just pushing back on this idea that he's nothing more than a volume shooter like Iverson.  That's simply not true.  And he's a lot closer to the impact of Curry than he is of Iverson.  I blame Supes as he gets a lot of respect on here for his knowledge of basketball and his insider scoops, but when he flies off the handle on Trae, he says a lot of dumb shit that then gets parroted by the guys that hate Trae.  And worse, they then build off of it to further their own "opinions" [agenda].

I think we have been so superstar starved (as a franchise) for so long, that we don't know one when we have it.   Trae is a superstar and more importantly, Trae is a freaking Unicorn.  The closest thing to Trae is MVP Harden. Yes, Harden during his MVP season(s).  He really had two but he was robbed.    What Harden did to earn an MVP is how Trae plays all the time.   I'm not concerned about words with Nate.  I'm sure players and coaches have words all the time.   Just look at Magic and Westhead.  Just look at Butler and Spo.  Just look at Shaq and Hill.  Just look at Pippen and Jackson.  It happens.   And it doesn't destroy the team. 

As far as winning a championship... we were a ref's foot away from doing that with Trae playing like Trae.  He doesn't need to imitate anybody. 

 

[theheroatl]

Sorry Trae but if you didn't want it public you should've taken the conversation in private in a room with just you and Nate.

https://twitter.com/KLChouinard/status/1599801391778004993

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by theheroatl

[sturt]

Think I, for one, am okay with Trae's summary.

[REHawksFan]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I think we have been so superstar starved (as a franchise) for so long, that we don't know one when we have it.   Trae is a superstar and more importantly, Trae is a freaking Unicorn.  The closest thing to Trae is MVP Harden. Yes, Harden during his MVP season(s).  He really had two but he was robbed.    What Harden did to earn an MVP is how Trae plays all the time.   I'm not concerned about words with Nate.  I'm sure players and coaches have words all the time.   Just look at Magic and Westhead.  Just look at Butler and Spo.  Just look at Shaq and Hill.  Just look at Pippen and Jackson.  It happens.   And it doesn't destroy the team. 

As far as winning a championship... we were a ref's foot away from doing that with Trae playing like Trae.  He doesn't need to imitate anybody. 

 

I agree with a lot of this.  I will just say 2 things:

1. The only part of this situation that really irritated me was Trae choosing to sit at home rather than be in the gym with the team.  That just can't happen, imo. You gotta be there for your brothers.  

2. I still say the offense needs to be more dynamic and involve more than just PNR and isos if they want to be more successful in the playoffs.  I know where they were in the ECF, but that was kind of a fortunate path giving the NYK really sucking and Philly being a pretender team.  That's not to diminish Trae or that team, but just to recognize that you to continually evolve in the NBA if you want to have continued success.  And we saw that last playoff.  Trae alone is fine for short bursts when you really need to lean on your superstar.  But they HAVE to have a more dynamic offensive system overall if they want to really put pressure on teams in the playoffs.  And to do that, Trae can't do it alone.