Official Game Thread: Hawks at heat (2 of 2)

[macdaddy]

30 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Name some that have done so AND have made their new team better, just for context.

CJ McCollum and Mitchell come to mind

[JayBirdHawk]

28 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Three level scorer 

Can draw fouls

One of the most defensively versatile players in the NBA. 

Excellent lateral quickness for size

7'2 wingspan

6'8 228

Strong

Can defend 4 positions plus big wings. 

 

To answer your question? A lot

Which one is he doing at a HIGH LEVEL????

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

My worst gripe with Capela is, he can't hit the majority of his free throws and he can't score unless he's right at the goal.  0017 is much better.  If we trade JC and Capela, I hope we get a center who can make his free throws.

What if we drafted a big center?  What if we trade for a big center?  In either case, I really hope he can hit his free throws.  Capela is great at what he does.  Problem is, he can't do anything else on offense.

Sometimes it's better to look at what a guy can do than what he cannot do well. 

 

[FL_BRYANT]

Yes I am but it's not about just Heurter it is more about high level three pt shooters.

[kg01]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Which one is he doing at a HIGH LEVEL????

For question.  Hunter is capable of a whole lot.  But,if we're being honest, his problem is he doesn't do all those things at a consistently high level.  Meaning every game. 

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Which one is he doing at a HIGH LEVEL????

He's doing it at a professional level aka starting level. He doesn't nothing at an elite level other than his defensive versatility is top end. It's just hard to find his combo in a big wing. 

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He's doing it at a professional level aka starting level. He doesn't nothing at an elite level other than his defensive versatility is top end. It's just hard to find his combo in a big wing. 

When you have to use these many words to describe Hunter - leaves me wanting more.

[SalvorMallow]

7 hours ago, kg01 said:

Towns' performance in his first playoffs really soured me on him.  Fairly or unfairly?  Eh, who knows (cares).

Honestly, I trash him sometimes just to get soth's blood pressure up.  Works every time.   

On our games?  Eh, I somehow missed the last 2 ... for some reason.  But if yall see my heat fan BIL, tell him to EABOD and that he better bring plates and cups to the family BBQ on the 4th of July. 

You hear that @benhillboy?

@kg01is sick of your dry a** BBQ chicken... Just cups and plates this time. 

[benhillboy]

11 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

You hear that @benhillboy?

@kg01is sick of your dry a** BBQ chicken... Just cups and plates this time. 

I see now me and his BIL are gonna have to take a pic side by side to dispel this myth.  Then @kg01 will just cry “deep fake!”

Besides his BIL can’t be half as handsome as the kid lol.

Edited March 8, 2023 by benhillboy

[kg01]

11 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

You hear that @benhillboy?

@kg01is sick of your dry a** BBQ chicken... Just cups and plates this time. 

Facts.

2 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

I see now me and his BIL are gonna have to take a pic side by side to dispel this myth.  Then @kg01 will just cry “deep fake!”

Also facts.

[Packfill]

Nets freaking won again tonight.  After the trade deadline I was certain they would go into the tank and the Hawks would pass them in the standings.  

Not sure anymore given the limited number of games left to make up the difference in their records.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

12 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Three level scorer 

Can draw fouls

One of the most defensively versatile players in the NBA. 

Excellent lateral quickness for size

7'2 wingspan

6'8 228

Strong

Can defend 4 positions plus big wings. 

 

To answer your question? A lot

 

Nah Supes. You're naming off physical characteristics in most of those descriptions, and not things that he does that lead to winning.

3 level scorer - yes

Can draw fouls - he's only taking 3.3 FTs a game

Defensive versatility- he can guard multiple positions but doesn't have a great defensive impact

7-2 wingspan - Lack of steals and blocks means he doesn't use it

6-8 .. 228 - and plays like a 2-guard in physicality

Strong - Does he use it?

Can defend 4 positions plus big wings - once again without great defensive impact

 

Dre is essentially Harrison Barnes .. a player that is good enough to be a solid starter, but may not ever get to the next level as a player.

I'm not even asking for that. I'm just asking Dre to be borderline elite at ONE thing.

Just one.

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Nah Supes. You're naming off physical characteristics in most of those descriptions, and not things that he does that lead to winning.

3 level scorer - yes

Can draw fouls - he's only taking 3.3 FTs a game

Defensive versatility- he can guard multiple positions but doesn't have a great defensive impact

7-2 wingspan - Lack of steals and blocks means he doesn't use it

6-8 .. 228 - and plays like a 2-guard in physicality

Strong - Does he use it?

Can defend 4 positions plus big wings - once again without great defensive impact

 

Dre is essentially Harrison Barnes .. a player that is good enough to be a solid starter, but may not ever get to the next level as a player.

I'm not even asking for that. I'm just asking Dre to be borderline elite at ONE thing.

Just one.

His touches are limited so 3.3 FTA is good. He's not averaging a ton of touches like Murray or Trae

You don't have to have great impact, just the ability to do it and do it well has massive value has it limits massive weaknesses within a defense. There is a reason why any NBA executive will tell you how valuable defensive versatility is. Even someone bad as Bey on defense has value as he can play PF on defense without getting dominated, it helps positional projection. Once again, this is where Hawksquawk's lack of understanding modern value especially on defense shows its face. Ask Landry or Travis. Everyone will tell you how valuable is defensive versatility. It's more important than being an elite defender at just one position in the modern NBA.

Wrong again, his 7'2 wingspan helps him defend multiple positions with his excellent lateral quickness for his size. Stocks is not as important in the modern NBA as it was in the old NBA has offense are scoring at an elite rate. This means possessions matter a lot more. Whereas back when MJ was taking plays off and just playing the passing lanes, that was fine as it was hard to score so the ROI was pretty good but today, it's not. His ability to contest shots from the best shooters in NBA history has massive value in the modern NBA. 

Once again, you focus on offense too much which is why you don't understand Hunter's value. Him being 6'8 228 is why he's able to be a big wing and guard and defend them. 

Yes, he does use his strength. 

Harrison Barnes doesn't have anywhere near the level of defensive versatility as Dre. He's a better offensive player but defensively, he's limited to the same positions as Bey but better at them than Bey is defensively. Dre is a good player. A high end role player but a good player. If you can't see that, that's on you, not me. You need to understand the modern NBA better. You sound like you are stuck in 1997. The game has changed and that's why Hunter has more value today than he would have in 2007. 

Dre is by far the most undervalued player on this board and it's due to a lack of understanding the modern NBA 

Edited March 8, 2023 by NBASupes

[TheNorthCydeRises]

39 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

His touches are limited so 3.3 FTA is good. He's not averaging a ton of touches like Murray or Trae

You don't have to have great impact, just the ability to do it and do it well has massive value has it limits massive weaknesses within a defense. There is a reason why any NBA executive will tell you how valuable defensive versatility is. Even someone bad as Bey on defense has value as he can play PF on defense without getting dominated, it helps positional projection. Once again, this is where Hawksquawk's lack of understanding modern value especially on defense shows its face. Ask Landry or Travis. Everyone will tell you how valuable is defensive versatility. It's more important than being an elite defender at just one position in the modern NBA.

Wrong again, his 7'2 wingspan helps him defend multiple positions with his excellent lateral quickness for his size. Stocks is not as important in the modern NBA as it was in the old NBA has offense are scoring at an elite rate. This means possessions matter a lot more. Whereas back when MJ was taking plays off and just playing the passing lanes, that was fine as it was hard to score so the ROI was pretty good but today, it's not. His ability to contest shots from the best shooters in NBA history has massive value in the modern NBA. 

Once again, you focus on offense too much which is why you don't understand Hunter's value. Him being 6'8 228 is why he's able to be a big wing and guard and defend them. 

Yes, he does use his strength. 

Harrison Barnes doesn't have anywhere near the level of defensive versatility as Dre. He's a better offensive player but defensively, he's limited to the same positions as Bey but better at them than Bey is defensively. Dre is a good player. A high end role player but a good player. If you can't see that, that's on you, not me. You need to understand the modern NBA better. You sound like you are stuck in 1997. The game has changed and that's why Hunter has more value today than he would have in 2007. 

Dre is by far the most undervalued player on this board and it's due to a lack of understanding the modern NBA 

 

Dre is not undervalued on this board.  We know his importance to this particular team, mainly because the team overall is bad or at best inconsistent defensively.  Even his average defense on most nights is highly valuable.  We just need him to be more impactful in games.  And we need him to be excellent at something.

We need him to be beyond the shadow of a doubt the 3rd best player on this team on a nightly basis, with the ability to the best or 2nd best every blue moon.  He's still young, so he still has time to develop something in his game that is noticeably impactful and elite. 

With him being a top 5 pick, this eerily looks like the same convos we were having 15 years ago about another top 5 pick.  We waited and hoped for his jump to that next level, but it never came.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Dre is not undervalued on this board.  We know his importance to this particular team, mainly because the team overall is bad or at best inconsistent defensively.  Even his average defense on most nights is highly valuable.  We just need him to be more impactful in games.  And we need him to be excellent at something.

We need him to be beyond the shadow of a doubt the 3rd best player on this team on a nightly basis, with the ability to the best or 2nd best every blue moon.  He's still young, so he still has time to develop something in his game that is noticeably impactful and elite. 

With him being a top 5 pick, this eerily looks like the same convos we were having 15 years ago about another top 5 pick.  We waited and hoped for his jump to that next level, but it never came.

I disagree. Yes he is undervalued. Even you proved it in your last post. You must understand how valuable defensive versatility is in the modern NBA. If any individual don't have that understanding, you will always underappreciate him. 

He would be valuable to any defense because he covers your defensive limitations and all teams have them due to the salary cap structure in the NBA. He's generally solid or better on defense regardless of assignment (PG to PF). That's massive and is excellent when it comes to helping win games. 

I think your expectations are too grand offensively. He has flaws and limitations offensively. He will always be best as a high touches 4th option offensively. The role we currently have him in doesn't make sense because one night, he's a 5th option, next night, he's our #1 option. Why? Because we do not have a #1 option. 

He was a better pick than R.J. Barrett and stands fairly well next to most 4th overall picks in the last 20 years. 

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

Most aren't undervaluing him - just asking for him to be more as a #4 pick.

Ask any anyone what's his best skillset in 'ONE WORD'?

[Gray Mule]

22 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Most aren't undervaluing him - just asking for him to be more as a #4 pick.

Ask any anyone what's his best skillset in 'ONE WORD'?

In one word - - HAWK - - Because that's who he is and this alone makes him good!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Most aren't undervaluing him - just asking for him to be more as a #4 pick.

Ask any anyone what's his best skillset in 'ONE WORD'?

 

Exactly.

The fan base ask a lot extra things from Trae, mainly because of the amount of money he's making.

But we can't ask or expect Dre to be elite at ONE thing?

 

[JayBirdHawk]

11 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Dre is essentially Harrison Barnes .. a player that is good enough to be a solid starter, but may not ever get to the next level as a player.

I'm not even asking for that. I'm just asking Dre to be borderline elite at ONE thing.

Just one.

This guy copying your homework 

 

 

[benhillboy]

In this latest edition of @NBASupes vs. Hawksquawk, I think Dre’s career on/ off per 100 shows both opinions have merit.  
 

He’s -.09 on because his ideal role on a contender is around 7th man and he simply doesn’t have the motor or an advanced sense of ball and man movement like many players who are +2 and up.  -1 to 0 is usually the “on” value of players who “stay out the way.”  Dre’s never gonna be caught way out of defensive position or take some bonehead shot, and there’s real value in that just ask any team who’s employed Russell Westbrook.  Even after years of piling up ridiculous stats his teams haven’t seen a drop off of a single point when he’s off (3.7 on, 3.7 on/ off net lol)

Dre’s helped set the standard for Hawks’ mediocrity in the record and net rating being a starter during the Trae Era.  Yet the Hawks lose 3 points per 100 when he’s off because his defensive footwork and positioning, size, and good low volume mix of 3 level scoring is a considerable amount of tools to lose.  Part of that is poor depth behind him but I give him the bulk of credit.  My favorite parts of his game by far are his shot fake, close-out attack, and shot challenge.  Really wished he was more communicative on defense and cut more instinctively.  I think in the first heat game Quinn had him sprint from the wing to the opposite elbow and he eventually scored a driving layup, it was a real good look.
 

I’m in general agreement with Supes on his value but I surely wouldn’t defend him too tough lol.  Just by looking at their college ratings I would’ve taken Cam Johnson without a second thought and would’ve been rewarded.  The Suns didn’t miss him when he was off because they had other forwards who are highly impactful in Crowder and Bridges but when Cam was on he was +5, a great starter/ super sub in my book.  

Edited March 8, 2023 by benhillboy