Official Game Thread: Hawks at Spurs

[AHF]

16 hours ago, macdaddy said:

I agree with you and I find it annoying too but it's not crazy to think that Trae believes complaining works to call attention to the fouls he's getting that they are missing.   This is standard procedure for most stars in the league.   And complaining has worked really well for a lot of coaches (Doc Rivers,  Phil Jackson) and a lot of stars (Lebron, Jordan, Wade)

Luka has 15 techs, Ant has 13,  Fox 11, Durant 11, Derozan 10.  

I think the answer is clearly not to be quiet.  The most successful guys at going to the line did not sit by quietly like Hunter waiting for the refs to start treating them differently.  
 

But I do think Trae has crossed into the bad side of things.  Ideally you want a mix of positive interaction and blasting the refs ala what MJ had where he could be joking with one collegially or staring them down when he was pissed.
 

While some individual refs may never like you, the refs as a whole should not all find you to be abrasive and I kind of feel like that is where Trae is at based on the body language from both Trae and the refs.

[shakes]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think the answer is clearly not to be quiet.  The most successful guys at going to the line did not sit by quietly like Hunter waiting for the refs to start treating them differently.  
 

But I do think Trae has crossed into the bad side of things.  Ideally you want a mix of positive interaction and blasting the refs ala what MJ had where he could be joking with one collegially or staring them down when he was pissed.
 

While some individual refs may never like you, the refs as a whole should not all find you to be abrasive and I kind of feel like that is where Trae is at based on the body language from both Trae and the refs.

yep, Trae is showing his immaturity and lack of intelligence the way he acts towards the refs.  At this point in his career it's embarrassing to watch.

Still wondering if/when the lightbulb will go off and Trae will finally grow up and start showing maturity and game management-ship intelligence, but her we are still waiting 5 years in.

[Diesel]

IF there's one kink in his armor, it's the fact that he don't handle the refs well.   Complaining every time all time is not going to win over any of them and they already have it out for him.   The refs can control a game better than a defense can.  Unfortunately, up to this point, No coach has ever told him to just play and let him handle the referees.  If they did, it didn't last long. 

 

[JeffS17]

29 minutes ago, shakes said:

yep, Trae is showing his immaturity and lack of intelligence the way he acts towards the refs.  At this point in his career it's embarrassing to watch.

Still wondering if/when the lightbulb will go off and Trae will finally grow up and start showing maturity and game management-ship intelligence, but her we are still waiting 5 years in.

Agreed.  Never did I suggest he should just ignore the refs and not talk to them.  Obviously, it is important to interact with the refs, give them your perspective on noncalls, etc. but the way you go about that is equally, if not more important.  Trae whines to them incessantly and then when they offer their perspective, he walks away and them shoos them with his hand.  I see it 5+ times a game.  What I never see is Trae have a calm conversation with them and then nod in agreement or even try to understand their perspective.  He leaves zero room for compromise or even a feeling of mutual understanding.

In complete isolation, I wouldn't care that much because imo Trae is doing it to himself and I can't stop him from acting like a child, but it clearly rubs off on the rest of the team and as the face of our franchise, he's setting what is a negative toxic culture towards the referees and just in general.  Having an outwardly positive mindset would be much much better than an outwardly bitter and entitled mindset for the team culture.  It's why JC is the heart and soul of the team an not Trae.  If we trade JC, it will likely be Murray.

[shakes]

17 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Agreed.  Never did I suggest he should just ignore the refs and not talk to them.  Obviously, it is important to interact with the refs, give them your perspective on noncalls, etc. but the way you go about that is equally, if not more important.  Trae whines to them incessantly and then when they offer their perspective, he walks away and them shoos them with his hand.  I see it 5+ times a game.  What I never see is Trae have a calm conversation with them and then nod in agreement or even try to understand their perspective.  He leaves zero room for compromise or even a feeling of mutual understanding.

In complete isolation, I wouldn't care that much because imo Trae is doing it to himself and I can't stop him from acting like a child, but it clearly rubs off on the rest of the team and as the face of our franchise, he's setting what is a negative toxic culture towards the referees and just in general.  Having an outwardly positive mindset would be much much better than an outwardly bitter and entitled mindset for the team culture.  It's why JC is the heart and soul of the team an not Trae.  If we trade JC, it will likely be Murray.

 

yep, it's about maturity and intelligence.    I played a lot of men's league hockey over the past 20-30 years and the refs are often terrible.  I was often team captain and always one of the better players on the team so I was always talking to the refs.  I would get on them if they really sucked, but the key was I was always chatting with them, always very friendly when shooting the crap with them in between whistles.  Always got on their good side and had a relationship with every ref.    That way when it came time to really lay into them they actually listen to you and it can actually make a difference for future calls.

It's not hard to be friendly to refs, it's really not.  I never see Trae having a laugh with a ref or anything like that.  Like you said, he only engages them when he is mad and 99% of the time he shows the ref up with his tone or body language.  Shoo-ing refs offf?  Cmon, how does Trae not realize how horrible that looks?

 

Don't worry, I fully expect Trae to mature and smarten up by the time  he reaches his mid 30s

[Gray Mule]

ON ANOTHER SUBJECT ABOUT OUR LAST GAME

It's impossible to expect five professional NBA players to go down the floor with the ball in hand and miss all their shots for several minutes while their opponent goes wild, making most of their shots.

Yet, sadly, this just happened to the Atlanta Hawks.  Never has a NBA team been hotter than the Spurs and Ice Trae and the lads wearing the visitors uniform were indeed Ice Cold!

As I watched the first half, Bob and Nique said that the Hawks, on offense, could get whatever they wanted because the Spurs played no defense.  I told myself, the Spurs could say the same thing.  They could get anything that they wanted because the Hawks offered little resistance.

Hawks went to the half break, looking good.  Apparently they took a siesta because they came back on the floor and did their famous sleepwalk for the entire second half.

Tonight, Atlanta has another opportunity to build another big lead, then blow it all.  Sleepwalk right out of the home court.  If the Hawks go to sleep on the floor again, I hope Quin clears the bench!

 

[Diesel]

35 minutes ago, shakes said:

 

yep, it's about maturity and intelligence.    I played a lot of men's league hockey over the past 20-30 years and the refs are often terrible.  I was often team captain and always one of the better players on the team so I was always talking to the refs.  I would get on them if they really sucked, but the key was I was always chatting with them, always very friendly when shooting the crap with them in between whistles.  Always got on their good side and had a relationship with every ref.    That way when it came time to really lay into them they actually listen to you and it can actually make a difference for future calls.

It's not hard to be friendly to refs, it's really not.  I never see Trae having a laugh with a ref or anything like that.  Like you said, he only engages them when he is mad and 99% of the time he shows the ref up with his tone or body language.  Shoo-ing refs offf?  Cmon, how does Trae not realize how horrible that looks?

 

Don't worry, I fully expect Trae to mature and smarten up by the time  he reaches his mid 30s

I just hope he doesn't Draymond Green this thing.   I mean, even Draymond knows how to talk nice to a ref... but Draymond has developed a reputation.   I would be willing to bet that Trae has a lifetime of giving the ref the what for and not getting anything good from it but the feeling that he told his side of the story.   The problem is that these aren't refs that you won't see again.  They are going to be here as long as you are here.  Let your coach be the bad guy.

 

[terrell]

lol.  Because Of course they will..

We're the perfect team for your 1st game back. smh

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by terrell

[macdaddy]

We don't have to agree obviously but i think you guys are going way overboard about Trae's complaining.  Yeah he complains a lot.  So does Luka, Lebron, Embiid, Butler, Lowry, Derozan, Draymond, CP3 and tons of other guys.  I've seen Trae have conversations with refs lots and lots of times.  I make the case that there's something about Trae's appearance that folks feel like he's not a 'real star' and should behave differently as evidenced by the language people use "whiny little kid", "never smiling and joking around" etc.  

Trae is 10th in the league in free throws so I don't think the evidence is there that he's somehow made enemies of the refs.  Someone is complaining to the refs on almost every possession for every team.  We see Trae complaining a lot because he has high usage and gets played as physically as anyone in the league.  

[Spud2nique]

On 3/19/2023 at 3:24 PM, terrell said:

Snider closing with the starting lineup was laughable

Yea that’s not the only laughable thing..

Spel the man’s name right. 

[sturt]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

It is slightly ironic but I’m more positive than you here on Quinn.  When I see a game like that I think of it as him leaving the starters in there to see what they are made of and how they respond to that kind of challenge. Who steps up and tries to change the flow, who reverts to bad habits, who shrinks from the pressure, etc.  Top priority for the rest of this season is data gathering to understand what we have and what we might need and putting together plans for individual and team development.  So I can see a reason to let that play out rather than bringing in Bogi, AJ, OO, etc. to try to jolt the lineup.

If Quinn is your architect, that kind of understanding is needed.  (And I think it is needed just as a coach because the issues we had this season go beyond just Nate and we need to understand the heart of that.)

Continue to sense that we're more alike on Quin, and even on Landry, and hopefully especially alike on Ressler than a lot of our posts necessarily would leave an unwitting person to think.

I really only ask the question because I'm genuinely asking the question, and not that I have any hard convictions either way.

I do probably add a little prickliness to it because I do take issue with all the expertise gathered here who would have been all over Nate for having made the exact same decisions. I abhor fans being so willing to give the benefit of a doubt as long as the coach (or GM or whoever is understood to be the authority on Issues X or Y) is new, but suddenly somehow the coach becomes an absolute idiot nincompoop moron after some tipping point occurs.

Ironically perhaps, I'm routinely seen by some people to be judgmental, when in fact, I'm being judgmental (or, maybe "asshole" is the more accurate term?) not of Landry (in this most recent spat), but of the fans who are so so fickle and ready to rest their conclusions on their momentary emotions, pro or con, never mind the substance that supports, or doesn't, their desired conclusions.

 

That said and circling back to this issue... I think I feel better about Quin trying to kick this roster into gear and finish as strong as possible. I'm stubborn (... news to you? ). I'm hard to persuade that we were completely wrong about this roster. It made sense at the beginning of the season that this might be the most versatile, most impressive rotation 1-7 and maybe even 1-9 depending on the young 'uns progress, that we've had in many years, if not ever.

Still look at it and think, "Damn. If all these vets play at something closer to their peak performance level that we've seen... and if all these young 'uns play something close to how they were projected coming out of USC and Duke... and if we have a head coach who they respect and play hard for... how can this team not be NBA upper crust?"

Hate to give up on it. Chemistry is something you only get after you've persevered through some really rough waters ordinarily... but once you get through those waters, you end up having something that other teams more often than not lack... and it ends up being a huge advantage as a consequence.

But Quin does have to look at the bigger picture. And we both want the same end-result. So, I won't bark too much if we learn (whether by figuring it out based on evidence or if he hints at it in his comments) that he's using the balance of the season more to evaluate than he is to try to make our first-ever NBA Finals appearance.

[terrell]

3 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Yea that’s not the only laughable thing..

Spel the man’s name right. 

Spel? lol

Didnt you block me? Geez

And one more thing..

“Yea” is a very old-fashioned formal way of saying “yes,” used mainly in voting. It's the opposite of—and rhymes with—“nay.” When you want to write the common casual version of “yes,” the correct spelling is “yeah” (sounds like “yeh” ).

Edited March 21, 2023 by terrell

[Diesel]

is there an eye rolling emoticon?

 

[MarylandHawk]

Just checking in…proud to see nobody is in full melt down mode. Lol.