Official Game Thread: Hawks at Spurs

[Gray Mule]

44 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

 If officials can be "turned against him" then they shouldn't be officials.  

Is there any official in the NBA that would never be influenced by the way any player acts against them?  I'm sure there are many but I'll be very suprised if there are not some, though they would never admit it.

[JeffS17]

55 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I sometimes wish he'd quit complaining so much but he doesn't complain any more than tons of other guys in this league.   Because he isn't built like Lebron people seem to tolerate it less for some reason.  The league already changed the rulebook because he was getting to the line too much.  If officials can be "turned against him" then they shouldn't be officials.  

GM is correct, though.  The rules themselves have a lot of gray area and interpretation from the officials.  You want as much of that gray area to be working in your favor, not against you.  Pitting yourself against the referees like Trae does game in and game out is never going to work out in his favor.

[macdaddy]

16 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

GM is correct, though.  The rules themselves have a lot of gray area and interpretation from the officials.  You want as much of that gray area to be working in your favor, not against you.  Pitting yourself against the referees like Trae does game in and game out is never going to work out in his favor.

I agree with you and I find it annoying too but it's not crazy to think that Trae believes complaining works to call attention to the fouls he's getting that they are missing.   This is standard procedure for most stars in the league.   And complaining has worked really well for a lot of coaches (Doc Rivers,  Phil Jackson) and a lot of stars (Lebron, Jordan, Wade)

Luka has 15 techs, Ant has 13,  Fox 11, Durant 11, Derozan 10.  

[Atlantaholic]

Fire Nate!!!.... oh wait. 

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

No, tanking implies intentionally losing (through roster construction or otherwise) for a better draft pick.  We wouldn't be intentionally losing in the scenario I laid out.  It would be a rebuild, retooling the roster construction and fit.

No.. when you trade proven talent for undeveloped, unproven talent... you are indirectly tanking.  That's why most teams that consider this approach have a firesale.  We'd be stupid to do it because what we'd be telling Future FAs and talents is that we don't know how to build around proven talent.

 

 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Tomato - Tomato.   Trading vets for young players and draft picks is intentionally losing through roster construction.  I"m not saying it's a bad idea, and we can call it rebuild, retool or whatever, but this path 90% of the time leads to more losses in the short term.  

We have a team right now that has 6 of our top 10 players that were our own lottery picks.  And Trae is the only true star in the bunch.   Trading him to 'retool' or whatever will be starting over most likely.   We can hope we'll have a quick retool but I'm not seeing it.   I can't think of an example where that worked very quickly either.   

It's the move that losing teams make...

Hello Orlando.. How did letting Shaq walk workout??

Hey Minny.. how did getting young players and  picks for KG work out??

 

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

It's the move that losing teams make...

Hello Orlando.. How did letting Shaq walk workout??

Hey Minny.. how did getting young players and  picks for KG work out??

 

Utah is doing what Jeff is suggesting (i think).  Traded Gobert and Mitchell but didn't totally gut the roster.   Which has taken them from 49 wins last season to probably under 40 and out of the playoffs this year.  It'll be interesting to see how quickly they can return to a solid playoff team again and land a star player.  

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

Utah is doing what Jeff is suggesting (i think).  Traded Gobert and Mitchell but didn't totally gut the roster.   Which has taken them from 49 wins last season to probably under 40 and out of the playoffs this year.  It'll be interesting to see how quickly they can return to a solid playoff team again and land a star player.  

I would say it was a total gut in Utah. 

Oneal, Mitchell, Bogdan, Conley and Gobert gone...  What starter from last years team did they leave??  None...   They just decided to give the reigns to Clarkson.

It would be like if we traded all of our starters and put JJ in as a starting Forward.   We would have gutted the team.

 

 

[terrell]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Mitchell was a poor fit too next to Trae. 

And so is Murray......... Youve said so yourself...

Mitchell may be shorter, but He plays bigger than Murray.. He gets to the FT line.  And he's just as good of a playmaker.. And as a scorer it isnt even close.

Imagine having Trae OR Mitchell on the court at all times....

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by terrell

[terrell]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

No. The issue with this team has nothing to do with any losses. It's simply fit. Murray shouldn't be a SG anymore but we all know that. We don't want to face the truth that we gotta make a decision of Murray or Trae but the issue is, we need a significant player in return. It's easier to get a significant player for Trae but one has to be available. 

While everyone has a million ideas, my guess is we do nothing unless a good deal appears.

I hope Houston gets Wemby and we offer them Griffin for Sengun. That would at least give us an offensive center who can also run the PnR and we can finally start Okongwu at the 4. 

 

We Shouldve went after Sabonis when he became available...........

Weren't the Pacers in love with JC back then?

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by terrell

[sturt]

So, Quin gets a pass for not playing his hottest hand hardly at all in the 2nd half?

I'm concerned that there's a prevailing feeling that we should end games with our starting 5.

 

And another thing. But related.

 

This team's range of performance is pretty much demonstrated by the delta between their 2nd quarter and their 3rd quarter performance yesterday. Now, in context, this has been an amazing year for good teams being taken down by the conference bottom dwellers. We're not alone. But like a lot of people, I was kinda sorta anticipating that those 3 consecutive days of being able to practice under the new coach would be pretty defining. And it seemed to be that, right up until halftime yesterday.

 

Are we capable of a run? Absolutely. I still believe that.

[Gray Mule]

Run, up or down?  Hoping, if we have one, it's up!  Hoping to see Bruno get a few meaningful minutes.  Capela coluld use another minute or three of rest.  

Perhaps in our next game. 

What happened to Griffin?  He had a nice (+) by his name.  He played.  Then he didn't play.  When the Spurs scored and scored and scored and the Hawks didn't, wonder what really happened?

Edited March 20, 2023 by Gray Mule

[Spud2nique]

Missed the game. 2nd one I missed. Should I ever watch ugh.

[shakes]

Lol can’t believe I went dark on the NBA since 3:00 yesterday until I watched the game an hour ago…..for that. 

 

It it too late to tank for Wemby or Scoot?

[SalvorMallow]

4 hours ago, sturt said:

So, Quin gets a pass for not playing his hottest hand hardly at all in the 2nd half?

I'm concerned that there's a prevailing feeling that we should end games with our starting 5.

 

And another thing. But related.

 

This team's range of performance is pretty much demonstrated by the delta between their 2nd quarter and their 3rd quarter performance yesterday. Now, in context, this has been an amazing year for good teams being taken down by the conference bottom dwellers. We're not alone. But like a lot of people, I was kinda sorta anticipating that those 3 consecutive days of being able to practice under the new coach would be pretty defining. And it seemed to be that, right up until halftime yesterday.

 

Are we capable of a run? Absolutely. I still believe that.

I don't know how to get data on this... But how often do teams not close games with their starting 5? I have to imagine it is quite rare. 

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, terrell said:

We Shouldve went after Sabonis when he became available...........

Weren't the Pacers in love with JC back then?

 

They weren't trading him to us. They got Haliburton for him. They wanted JC at one time but it wasn't for Sabonis unless Atlanta wanted to add picks which they didn't. Ayton has more pull and PHX wanted Sabonis and couldn't get him because of Haliburton. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by NBASupes

[terrell]

24 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

They weren't trading him to us. They got Haliburton for him. They wanted JC at one time but it wasn't for Sabonis unless Atlanta wanted to add picks which they didn't. Ayton has more pull and PHX wanted Sabonis and couldn't get him because of Haliburton. 

Well they couldve added picks... LIke they did for Murray..

Edited March 21, 2023 by terrell

[sturt]

59 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

I don't know how to get data on this... But how often do teams not close games with their starting 5? I have to imagine it is quite rare. 

Yeah, there's probably paywalled site that will give that info, but nothing I've seen for free. Then, too, I think we're specifically talking only about games competitive to the last seconds, so that eliminates a big slice from due consideration.

And I'd agree it's likely more typical than not.... pure guess, 75/25? Would be surprised, tho, if it's "rare."

[Plainview1981]

20 hours ago, terrell said:

Lets be honest..

We gave up three firsts for a fraud just because the PG likes him.

And the PG isn't the Superstar player he thinks he is IMO.  Talented as hell, but is still an idiot in crunchtime in year 5.. When we go up BIG, instead of playing smart and closing the game out, it's usually stat pad and frontrunning time..(he and Murray both)

That is why every player on this roster should be up for grabs...Except for maybe the younguns with upside(AJ/JJ/OO)

We need to get a real Superstar here. 

And after sleeping on it (Quin closing with the starters which I thought was insane at the time)

I’m guessing he is just giving the "core" of this team an opportunity to show who they are.(or arent)

He’s going to take his best 8 (or 9) on any given night and see what they’re capable of.

If they’re not capable of securing a playoff spot, then so be it.

Just part of the evaluation process.

Smart move on his part..

Next season cant get here fast enough..

Murray has production level this year on par with what JJ's was. JJ was clearly better though 

[AHF]

15 hours ago, sturt said:

So, Quin gets a pass for not playing his hottest hand hardly at all in the 2nd half?

I'm concerned that there's a prevailing feeling that we should end games with our starting 5.

 

And another thing. But related.

 

This team's range of performance is pretty much demonstrated by the delta between their 2nd quarter and their 3rd quarter performance yesterday. Now, in context, this has been an amazing year for good teams being taken down by the conference bottom dwellers. We're not alone. But like a lot of people, I was kinda sorta anticipating that those 3 consecutive days of being able to practice under the new coach would be pretty defining. And it seemed to be that, right up until halftime yesterday.

 

Are we capable of a run? Absolutely. I still believe that.

It is slightly ironic but I’m more positive than you here on Quinn.  When I see a game like that I think of it as him leaving the starters in there to see what they are made of and how they respond to that kind of challenge. Who steps up and tries to change the flow, who reverts to bad habits, who shrinks from the pressure, etc.  Top priority for the rest of this season is data gathering to understand what we have and what we might need and putting together plans for individual and team development.  So I can see a reason to let that play out rather than bringing in Bogi, AJ, OO, etc. to try to jolt the lineup.

If Quinn is your architect, that kind of understanding is needed.  (And I think it is needed just as a coach because the issues we had this season go beyond just Nate and we need to understand the heart of that.)