Official Game Thread: Hawks at Bucks (7 PM EST Tip)

[Final_quest]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

Well and we've all heard what someone said and took it to the extreme in our heads. Nate might have said, cut you're hair, you'll never get a good commercial with that hair and JJ heard, "you'll die in College Park and I'll own your soul for a 1000 years".  At least I have an ex who heard things like that.

100%.  Like a source might say, "Hawks are talking to a lot of teams about Cam."  It gets interpreted as, "Cam is the hottest trade target across the league."

We have to use common sense and filter what is being said.  Nothing is held to a journalistic standard in back channel conversations.  

[macdaddy]

I have no knowledge of this but in my opinion it's always something like : he said 'you'll never be a player in this league' and what was really said was 'if you can't do this and this you'll never be a player in this league'

Of course Danny Ferry told Teague he didn't like anything about him so who  knows what gets said. 

[Gray Mule]

We don't really know who told the tale about Nate.  We do know, however, that Nate told everyone that he wasn't into developing players.  We do know what Jalen Johnson's G League coaches said about his talent.

Actions speak louder than words.  

In last night's game, Quin's influence on this year's Hawk team began to show.  You know, actions - - !

Great to see AJ Griffin make that three right in front of dad!

Hawks may not be a total disaster after all !!

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I have no knowledge of this but in my opinion it's always something like : he said 'you'll never be a player in this league' and what was really said was 'if you can't do this and this you'll never be a player in this league'

Of course Danny Ferry told Teague he didn't like anything about him so who  knows what gets said. 

Danny is an asshole. That's why he hasn't had a player facing position since. His Deng outburst got his goofy ass fired

[NBASupes]

26 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

 

 

 

 

Soth… this isn’t an “I don’t believe you thing” it’s more of a “whoever told you this is full of crap “…

I’m not going down this rabbit hole again that ends in Soth saying I don’t believe him again. My thoughts are .. 

1. I am pretty sure Nate didn’t say that.

2. Even if he did who gives a he’s gone, Lloyd is gone.. Bud is gone. 
 

Soth, again I believe you tomorrow if you come out and say Bud used to spank Dwight on the butt and he seemed to like it.. 

but this one.. man, Nate would have had to be straight up evil.

This. I always give my brother @Sothron the benefit of doubt but this one would have got Nate canned way before he got canned. This is how LP got blackballed with a lot of players. He needed the coaches President rep to save him is the only reason he's still coaching in this league. I still think the coaches have black balled Trae for players black balling LP. LP deserved it. I don't care what the coaches think. 

 

That said, that Nate shit some bullshit. I don't believe your source gave you legit Intel. If I even started reaching out to some players, my guess is they will tell me that's BS. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by NBASupes

[Gray Mule]

Taking a story completely out of context:

A man tells his best friend, "My wife beat me up this morning."

Friend looks him over carefully, "I don't see any scars!"

The man replies, "My wife got up at 7 this morning.  I slept until 7:30.  She beat me up by 30 minutes!

 

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

I believe that someone told you that.  Have no idea why people are acting like you haven't posted here for 20+ years and never spread disinformation.    

I did add this edit to my post belatedly:

Edit:  I should also add that I have never seen any reason to believe that Sothron is making anything up that he posts.  Doesn't mean his source is correct, but I do trust in his integrity to only claim he was told something by a source if he was actually told that by someone with a real connection to the team. (And, fwiw, here there are facts that are pretty consistent with it so when I say I don't care I mean I don't care whether Nate specifically said it to JJ which would be crazy rude for a coach to say to a 19 or 20 year old kid or if this was a telephone game version of events where Nate said it in a coach's meeting or something but then eventually the source tells Sothron that Nate said it directly to JJ).  

 

Remember, we aren't debating poster's integrity on the site.  If you think something is implausible, explain why you think it is implausible without resorting to talking about the poster.

[shakes]

Hawks redeemed themselves.  Made some nice cash betting the game last night.  Taking the Hawks straight up to win paid great odds. 

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I don't think one guy on this team is that guy every night.  Some nights maybe but not every night so to anoint a player to dominate the shots every game on a team like this is foolishness.

Fully agree.  But I will also say I think we are already seeing some of that.  

Trae is taking the fewest shots this year since his rookie season.   (Small sample size caveat to all of this.)  He took 4.5 more shots per game earlier in his career.  And if you look on  a per minute basis, he is taking the fewest shots of his entire career including his rookie season.  So I think you are seeing a deliberate effort to spread the ball around more.  

Trae and DM have been brutal to start the year offensively.  Both have to get better and I agree with you that when other people are having success you need to lean into that and use it to open up easier shots for your more established struggling scorers.  

I didn't like it when Kobe played hero ball in LA so I'm sure not going to like it when Trae does it here.  That doesn't mean that I don't want to ever see him just go get a bucket because that absolutely has to happen sometimes.  But options a, b and c on any given possession need to be either called plays, functions of the normal system, or opportunistically taking advantage of a breakdown in the defense.  Beating your man one-on-one is not a sustainable high volume strategy.

[thecampster]

57 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

 

 

 

 

Soth… this isn’t an “I don’t believe you thing” it’s more of a “whoever told you this is full of crap “…

I’m not going down this rabbit hole again that ends in Soth saying I don’t believe him again. My thoughts are .. 

1. I am pretty sure Nate didn’t say that.

2. Even if he did who gives a he’s gone, Lloyd is gone.. Bud is gone. 
 

Soth, again I believe you tomorrow if you come out and say Bud used to spank Dwight on the butt and he seemed to like it.. 

but this one.. man, Nate would have had to be straight up evil.

Recent news stories about Dwight infers than he might have.

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

Fully agree.  But I will also say I think we are already seeing some of that.  

Trae is taking the fewest shots this year since his rookie season.   (Small sample size caveat to all of this.)  He took 4.5 more shots per game earlier in his career.  And if you look on  a per minute basis, he is taking the fewest shots of his entire career including his rookie season.  So I think you are seeing a deliberate effort to spread the ball around more.  

Trae and DM have been brutal to start the year offensively.  Both have to get better and I agree with you that when other people are having success you need to lean into that and use it to open up easier shots for your more established struggling scorers.  

I didn't like it when Kobe played hero ball in LA so I'm sure not going to like it when Trae does it here.  That doesn't mean that I don't want to ever see him just go get a bucket because that absolutely has to happen sometimes.  But options a, b and c on any given possession need to be either called plays, functions of the normal system, or opportunistically taking advantage of a breakdown in the defense.  Beating your man one-on-one is not a sustainable high volume strategy.

Yet we have a hand full of posters who want Trae to indiscriminately jack up long 3's. This is beyond my comprehension as a fan of basketball and seeing result when Trae repeatedly hunts these kinds of shots at crucial time during Hawk games over the years.

[macdaddy]

23/11 with a bunch of steals and 37% or greater from 3 would be a great season for Trae this year.  

[Spud2nique]

48 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

'if

So Nate was just trying to provide the carrot for the day for JJ..

Like me the other day..

So I go to the local center to shoot around like always and on one side there was a pops and kid around 16..17 years old shooting drill style. Other side was like a few kids around 5-10 years just playing with their dad, well the dad says, do you mind shooting on the other side so the kids could run 4 on 4 horizontal full court, I’m like sure no worries..

So I go to the other side and there’s a main hoop occupied by father n son and 2 side rims, well the side one are kinda forgiving to where @kg01 would even shoot over 50% in FG attempts during practice. So I went over to tell them im shooting on their side now and as I tell the kid that I’ll be on this side because they were gaming he says.. yeaaa sure.. on that rim (pointing to the $hitty side rim). {me internally.. that was kinda rude} Externally: Nah, im gonna shoot at the main one. Kid: Do whatever you want I don’t give a fck. Me: ohhhkayyy ohhkaaayy.. Me: Hey bro I was just being courteous to let you know I was on your side I didn’t have to say anything..

Dad comes in.. what’s the problem. I said you got a rude son that’s the problem and I was being courteous to let him know I was on this side now and he says.. “I don’t give a fck do what you want.” He said.. oh, I’m sorry, no worries… shoot at that rim.. {again pointing to the side rim}..
 

Me: Nah, I’m shooting at the main rim with y’all. 
 

Him: Well why can’t you shoot on the side rims.

Me: Because the side rims are wobbly and when you are an elite shooter, you need a tighter rim.

So I start shooting angrily (focused)..

Kid is circling the arc draining 3’s and I’m like ohhhhhhhh okkkkaaayyyyyy okkkkkkkaaayyyyy I see what we got here..

MY CARROT FOR THE DAY.

The kid and I went back and forth shooting threes from all around the arc. 
 

He was good. I got a lil angrier (more focused, Tupac bumpin in my AirPods and I get FIBA FCKING BOGI LASER DOWTOWN FOCUSED.

We went at it for an hour..

I hit about 55% from the various spots and kid hit around 60%. 

They walked off the court at the same time as a coach arrived who I knew. Apparently he knew the kid and his dad as well. I said, you know those dudes? He said ya, he’s one of the better high school prep players. I said oh ya, well him and his dad are entitled douchebags also. 
 

I don’t like privileged people, I’m not in love with bullies either..

 

Anyhoooooooo, long story long,

Nate was just giving JJ a for his career. How do we know that’s not what is driving him to the top right now? He could still be chasing that and Nate may be responsible for driving JJ’s career straight into…

 

wait for it…:

 

THE NAISMITH BASKETBALL HALL OF FAME!!!!! @kg01 catch me.. there’s your fa da day.

[AHF]

10 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Yet we have a hand full of posters who want Trae to indiscriminately jack up long 3's. This is beyond my comprehension as a fan of basketball and seeing result when Trae repeatedly hunts these kinds of shots at crucial time during Hawk games over the years.

I think you are inserting the bolded word which turns their view into a completely unreasonable strawman.  If you can quote someone actually saying this then we can engage around those posts but I think you'll find something more along the lines of the sorts of arguments that North has made where we wants Trae to take the 30+ foot 3pt shots because he thinks those are higher quality shots due to him having the space to take them in rhythm and relying on the shooting % data showing Trae is elite on converting those.  I don't think he is at all clamoring for Trae to just jack up contested 3pt shots all the time or anything.  

[Spud2nique]

31 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Recent news stories about Dwight infers than he might have.

HEY!!!! What he does in his woods with his trees and bushes is HIS BUSINESS!!!!!  

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Gray Mule said:

Taking a story completely out of context:

A man tells his best friend, "My wife beat me up this morning."

Friend looks him over carefully, "I don't see any scars!"

The man replies, "My wife got up at 7 this morning.  I slept until 7:30.  She beat me up by 30 minutes!

 

I absolutely love this!!! Gramps can you spit wise phrases like this at us more often? 

[Peoriabird]

19 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think you are inserting the bolded word which turns their view into a completely unreasonable strawman.  If you can quote someone actually saying this then we can engage around those posts but I think you'll find something more along the lines of the sorts of arguments that North has made where we wants Trae to take the 30+ foot 3pt shots because he thinks those are higher quality shots due to him having the space to take them in rhythm and relying on the shooting % data showing Trae is elite on converting those.  I don't think he is at all clamoring for Trae to just jack up contested 3pt shots all the time or anything.  

I said indiscriminately, not contested meaning no real thought behind when these shot are to be taken. I.e. short clock, play breakdowns etc. Many of them are taken without any effort on Trae's part to run a play during certain offensive sets

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I said indiscriminately, not contested meaning no real thought behind when these shot are to be taken. I.e. short clock, play breakdowns etc. Many of them are taken without any effort on Trae's part to run a play during certain offensive sets

Indiscriminate means there is no thought behind which shots are taken.  Ie there is no “discriminating” between different types of shots.  So someone who indiscriminately advocates for more shots doesn’t care if they are contested, etc.

[Sothron]

I appreciate the support and that @Spud2nique is not claiming I'm making this up about Nate. I do have to point out one thing though:

I know how telephone games work. I have been talking to folks in the Hawks, the arena, other teams and media guys for many years at this point. I know how to ask someone wait, did a coach really say that to a player like that or is that what was inferred by the player or someone else who overheard that. I stand by what I was told by two different sources. I'll leave it at that. Maybe Nate was pulling the old "I tell the player he won't make it to light a fire under him" trick? Possible. 

How he actually played JJ and how he spoke about speaks far more about his actual intentions and belief in Jalen as a player IMO. 

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Indiscriminate means there is no thought behind which shots are taken.  Ie there is no “discriminating” between different types of shots.  So someone who indiscriminately advocates for more shots doesn’t care if they are contested, etc.

Has nothing to do with whether they are contested or not. For example...A fast break long three is not optimizing your option whether itis contested or not