Official Game Thread: Hawks at Thunder (8 PM EST Tip!)

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, shakes said:

OKC might have brightest future of any team In the league.  

That and $9 will get you a sandwich.   But seriously it takes a lot in this league to go from bright future to contender and OKC needs to start with playoffs.  We nearly came back on them despite a few guys playing like absolute garbage the whole game.  

[shakes]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

That and $9 will get you a sandwich.   But seriously it takes a lot in this league to go from bright future to contender and OKC needs to start with playoffs.  We nearly came back on them despite a few guys playing like absolute garbage the whole game.  

they did make the play in last year in a season they were supposed to be tanking.  And they still have more draft picks than anyone by a fair margin.  And their GM has shown he knows how to draft.  I'd say they are on a better path than the Hawks right now and it's really not even close.

 

Now go eat your $9 sandwich!

[terrell]

3 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Just finished watching this one. It was tough. Road games aren’t easy. We gave ourselves a chance late but came up short. Seemed like they dictated the pace all night for the most part and having Joe come in and mail a couple threes gave them a bit of separation in the 2nd half.

To our credit we kept at it and fought but too much SGA and Chet, that’s a nice lookin big dude right there he’s super lanky and skilled.

Dort is awesome. He’s a dream target of mine to get traded to the Hawks. Straight grinder.

How bout the double wrap around dime attempt my Trae! Me: If that pass made it, it would have been the pass of the decade no doubt.

Bey and JJ played well..

Hunter .. I dunno, the opportunities were there, we set him up over and over and he continued to fail. That dude.. I dunno wtf was he doin all summer in the gym???? You can’t spend the entire summer in the gym practicing the same stuff you do over and over. Hunter just went through reps he didn’t add anything new to his game nor did he get stronger physically or mentally. 
 

Is there any team that wants Hunter at a reasonable price. He’s a liability all over the place. I don’t wanna hear about his defense anymore either it’s not like he’s licking down stars ️.

Let’s get the next one!

Go Hawks!

Im sure Dort would rather play with Trae than SGA.....................

He wont be the same player here..

Edited November 7, 2023 by terrell

[terrell]

23 minutes ago, AHF said:

Are you taking 7 games of data over multiple years of data?  The team has routinely been dramatically better with Trae on the floor over his career in Atlanta.  I would at least wait to see how the team does when he is playing closer to his career norm if you want to make a small sample size conclusion.  

Hawks never any more good players around him early on during tanking years.. 

So of course we were better with him then...lol

 

League avg efg is .537. This year he is 38 efg. The last 4 years league avg efg has been in between 53 and 54. Trae has one year over 53 and has never been 54.

Career 50 efg. He is a below avg efg shooter every year except 1 year. The man is a gunner, but he does get to the line. Without fts he is a below avg scorer and shooter.

So the numbers say he should pass more and shoot less.

Edited November 7, 2023 by terrell

[Jdawgflow]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I would welcome Delon back.  He is off to a rough start but I think you can trust in his track record.  He also fits in salary wise just fine.

What would a trade for Delon look like potentially?  Would love Gallo back as well.

[NBASupes]

OKC at some point is going to have to pay for all these players and they got about 5 of them that everyone wants 

[terrell]

34 minutes ago, AHF said:

Are you taking 7 games of data over multiple years of data?  The team has routinely been dramatically better with Trae on the floor over his career in Atlanta.  I would at least wait to see how the team does when he is playing closer to his career norm if you want to make a small sample size conclusion.  

I agree with everyone on his slow starts

His two worst shooting months of his career are October and then November.

Hopefully he turns it around..

We arent going anywhere if he doesnt..

With that said, Trae last 90 games he has shot over 50 percent 12 times.

So when is he supposed to stop slumping?

Edited November 7, 2023 by terrell

[JeffS17]

5 minutes ago, terrell said:

I agree with everyone on his slow starts

His two worst shooting months of his career are October and then November.

Hopefully he turns it around..

We arent going anywhere if he doesnt..

With that said, Trae last 90 games he has shot over 50 percent 12 times.

So when is he supposed to stop slumping?

We just need him taking fewer shots.  If you strip out some of his wild circus shots and step back bricks, he's actually shooting decent.  Shot selection is the issue and the occasional determination to do it all himself.  Quin just has to coach these bad habits out of him.  Everyone sees it.  When he starts getting really quick/jerky with his handles on the perimeter and you just smell the step back brick coming.  Same with the off balance rainbow middies he's prone to.  And the deep bombs that are not hitting at a % to justify them.  Coach those out of him and we can achieve more than regular season success.  

[shakes]

18 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

OKC at some point is going to have to pay for all these players and they got about 5 of them that everyone wants 

naw, they just need to consolidate which shouldn't be a problem with the players and picks they have.    SGA, Chet and JWill are the obvious big 3 on the team.   Dort seems super valuable to them.  I think Giddy will be the odd virgin out.  He doesn't shoot well enough.

 

[terrell]

15 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

We just need him taking fewer shots.  If you strip out some of his wild circus shots and step back bricks, he's actually shooting decent.  Shot selection is the issue and the occasional determination to do it all himself.  Quin just has to coach these bad habits out of him.  Everyone sees it.  When he starts getting really quick/jerky with his handles on the perimeter and you just smell the step back brick coming.  Same with the off balance rainbow middies he's prone to.  And the deep bombs that are not hitting at a % to justify them.  Coach those out of him and we can achieve more than regular season success.  

Yeah Im not saying he needs to shoot over 50 percent every game, but he should have HOT games alot more than he does. The elite guards have way more 50 percent shooting games than he does. 

WHATEVER he's doing during the off-season it doesn’t appear to be changing his body for the better, or readying him for the start of the season. Few players would get his leash to stink it up to start every year. Frustrating.

Edited November 7, 2023 by terrell

[NekiEcko]

3 hours ago, shakes said:

This isn’t even a question. You would trade the Hawks roster for OKC roster in a heartbeat.  It’s really not even close.  
 

hawks don’t have anything that even comes close to the top 3 of SGA, Chet and JWill.  
 

then u got Wallace looking fantastic for a late lotto rookie.  Dort is turning into a really solid 3 and D.  

on top of that they are loaded with draft picks coming up. 
 

OKC might have brightest future of any team In the league.  

However, the thing is that the fanbase was very patience doing those down years.  Just imagine if we had that here, we will be screaming for the GM to leave and the owners to sell the team.

Even know that I hate the Thunder (not because of the players), they have a very bright future and everybody draft picks.

About Trae, I was thinking about it and even know that he wants to be the man and whatnot, I think it is time for him to have a shot-count like how baseball has a pitch count.  I will say about 11 - 15 shots per game and with 3 - 5 3 pointers (only 1 for 30+ ft bombs) and the rest of the game, just being a playmaker.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, terrell said:

Hawks never any more good players around him early on during tanking years.. 

So of course we were better with him then...lol

 

League avg efg is .537. This year he is 38 efg. The last 4 years league avg efg has been in between 53 and 54. Trae has one year over 53 and has never been 54.

Career 50 efg. He is a below avg efg shooter every year except 1 year. The man is a gunner, but he does get to the line. Without fts he is a below avg scorer and shooter.

So the numbers say he should pass more and shoot less.

1) We are talking about 7 games this season so who cares about his specific efg% at the moment.  Are we going to bash Kevin Durant and write him off because he is down 100 points in efg% this season?  Of course not.  Small sample sizes breed outlier numbers.  As for the +/-, we haven't tanked in years so I have no idea why you would think that would matter.

After the first 7 games this season, he is at career lows in everything.  It is hardly a shock that he might struggle out of the gate.  His career low efg% is in October followed by November.  He routinely struggles shooting the ball at the start of the season and this is an outlier even with that in mind.

2) EFG% ignores getting to the line.  Look to TS% for a better measure of scoring efficiency.  You can't ignore the FTs when he is a league leader every year and averages 8 a game in the playoffs.  It isn't like his free throws go away in the playoffs.  He averages 7.7 per game for his career in the regular season and 7.8 per game for his career in the playoffs.  You have to factor those in.

3) He is shooting at a career low rate this season and substantially down from the last two years.

[Sothron]

the only shooting metric that matters is TS%.

[macdaddy]

22 minutes ago, AHF said:

1) We are talking about 7 games this season so who cares about his specific efg% at the moment.  Are we going to bash Kevin Durant and write him off because he is down 100 points in efg% this season?  Of course not.  Small sample sizes breed outlier numbers.  As for the +/-, we haven't tanked in years so I have no idea why you would think that would matter.

After the first 7 games this season, he is at career lows in everything.  It is hardly a shock that he might struggle out of the gate.  His career low efg% is in October followed by November.  He routinely struggles shooting the ball at the start of the season and this is an outlier even with that in mind.

2) EFG% ignores getting to the line.  Look to TS% for a better measure of scoring efficiency.  You can't ignore the FTs when he is a league leader every year and averages 8 a game in the playoffs.  It isn't like his free throws go away in the playoffs.  He averages 7.7 per game for his career in the regular season and 7.8 per game for his career in the playoffs.  You have to factor those in.

3) He is shooting at a career low rate this season and substantially down from the last two years.

yep.  the good news about sucking is you know he will get better because history tells us that.  it's fairly fool proof if you're not worried about age or injury.  

It's a new system and he was the system before so not surprised it's an adjustment.  

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

yep.  the good news about sucking is you know he will get better because history tells us that.  it's fairly fool proof if you're not worried about age or injury.  

It's a new system and he was the system before so not surprised it's an adjustment.  

Don't get me wrong.  I'm concerned after last season about his shooting before this season even began.  But 7 games is not much to go on.

[macdaddy]

19 minutes ago, AHF said:

Don't get me wrong.  I'm concerned after last season about his shooting before this season even began.  But 7 games is not much to go on.

Honestly i get real frustrated but part of it is we know he's digging a hole that will make his season numbers unrecoverable and that just makes it harder to defend him even if he balls out the end of the season and playoffs.  It's hard being a fan of the most maligned player in the league. 

[terrell]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

1) We are talking about 7 games this season so who cares about his specific efg% at the moment.  Are we going to bash Kevin Durant and write him off because he is down 100 points in efg% this season?  Of course not.  Small sample sizes breed outlier numbers.  As for the +/-, we haven't tanked in years so I have no idea why you would think that would matter.

After the first 7 games this season, he is at career lows in everything.  It is hardly a shock that he might struggle out of the gate.  His career low efg% is in October followed by November.  He routinely struggles shooting the ball at the start of the season and this is an outlier even with that in mind.

2) EFG% ignores getting to the line.  Look to TS% for a better measure of scoring efficiency.  You can't ignore the FTs when he is a league leader every year and averages 8 a game in the playoffs.  It isn't like his free throws go away in the playoffs.  He averages 7.7 per game for his career in the regular season and 7.8 per game for his career in the playoffs.  You have to factor those in.

3) He is shooting at a career low rate this season and substantially down from the last two years.

Oh I agree.. FT's are his saving grace..

[bleachkit]

28 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Honestly i get real frustrated but part of it is we know he's digging a hole that will make his season numbers unrecoverable and that just makes it harder to defend him even if he balls out the end of the season and playoffs.  It's hard being a fan of the most maligned player in the league. 

Is it too much to ask of our superstar not to dig himself an insurmountable statistical hole? Those 4-16 nights are brutal. 

[Final_quest]

I think his career shooting numbers are on the lower side, but he creates more offense than almost any player in the league.  The easy baskets he generates for others is 50% of his game.  

It’s similar with his turnovers.  He leads the league, but the overall team turnover% while in the game is extremely low.  I looked up the turnover% for us when he sits and it was on par with the worst teams in the league.  

Offense does not suffer when Trae gets minutes.  We’re too hung up on a slightly low TS%.  

[JeffS17]

32 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Is it too much to ask of our superstar not to dig himself an insurmountable statistical hole? Those 4-16 nights are brutal. 

No, it's not.  Some of the narratives around Trae work fine for a role player.  But he's playing historically bad for a guy on a supermax contract.  Right now, DJ looks like the clear leader of this team and best player, by eye test and every metric out there.  The same people defending a small sample size will be the ones excusing his season averages because of his "slow start".  And frankly, slow start is quite generous considering the most recent game was his worst performance of the year.  And unfortunately for us, wins/losses count the same now as they do in January.

And I agree shooting is not the end-all, be-all for every player, but frankly, it kind of is for Trae.  I'm of the opinion if you're paying a 6'0 guard $45M a year, that is physically incapable of playing +defense, he needs to be scoring efficiently and running an efficient offense.  That means limiting turnovers, good shot selection, good floor general, etc.  Otherwise, we're better off spending that $45M elsewhere.  And now that we have a coach capable of creating offense that doesn't rely on Trae, the FO is going to be forced to revisit how and where they want to spend on this roster.  And all of the metrics people cite to prop up Trae's value are going to diminish with his lower usage. 

The jury is still out, but he absolutely needs to play significantly better, or I will also be in the camp that we move on from him and let DJ be our PG of the future (and bring in a dog defender at SG).