Official Game Thread: Hawks at Thunder (8 PM EST Tip!)

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

Yes, we quite literally are.  He has the worst net rating of anyone in the rotation (see below).  Cherry picking stats doesn't change that.  I think we could very easily be 6-1 if he was playing up to his contract.  As @thecampster mentioned in another thread, I also judge guys play by their contract, and it's not a good thing when the guy getting paid 2-3x more than the rest of the players has the worst on-court results.

 

You think we'd be 4-3 or better w/o Trae playing?  I don't.  

[JeffS17]

3 hours ago, macdaddy said:

 

You think we'd be 4-3 or better w/o Trae playing?  I don't.  

Honestly? Probably.  But it's not a fair comparison anyways.  The way I look at it is more like, would we be 4-3 without Trae but with +$40M in rotation pieces?  And the answer to that question -- so far this year -- is definitely yes.  Probably need far less than $40M to replace his impact so far this year.  Again, not here to make a summary ruling 7 games into the season, but that is where we're at today.  No reason to sugar coat it

[theheroatl]

I love Trae and he is a great playmaker.

His shot selection is not good. That’s it.

If he actually fixes that issue, everything will correct itself.

The logo 3 is ok but not a high percentage shot. He sometimes forces shots to try and get his shot found and that isn’t the right way to go about it.

Edited November 8, 2023 by theheroatl

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Honestly? Probably.  But it's not a fair comparison anyways.  The way I look at it is more like, would we be 4-3 without Trae but with +$40M in rotation pieces?  And the answer to that question -- so far this year -- is definitely yes.  Probably need far less than $40M to replace his impact so far this year.  Again, not here to make a summary ruling 7 games into the season, but that is where we're at today.  No reason to sugar coat it

That's left field.  I'm just saying you made the case that we're winning in spite of him so that implies to me that he is having a negative effect on the team rather than a positive one right?  I think it's a huge stretch to say he hasn't been contributing but actually detracting from our success so far.  

maybe it's just semantics. 

[AHF]

19 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

That's left field.  I'm just saying you made the case that we're winning in spite of him so that implies to me that he is having a negative effect on the team rather than a positive one right?  I think it's a huge stretch to say he hasn't been contributing but actually detracting from our success so far.  

maybe it's just semantics. 

Sounds like Jeff agrees he has been value add but instead is saying that he isn't living up to his contract so far.

[Carmine]

It's too early to tell but I've lost patience with Trae. He should be the reason we are winning games, not the other way around.

[Sothron]

Trae's passing is still elite. He is continuing to play much better defense that he started playing mid dec of 2022. He is buying in to the coaching. All of this is good.

It is just his shooting. He simply can't shoot this bad. He can't. He knows this. I expect his shooting to return back to career norms. It is just a question of how long until we see it. 

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, Carmine said:

It's too early to tell but I've lost patience with Trae. He should be the reason we are winning games, not the other way around.

Yeah, we should trade him for Colin Sexton!!! 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

8 hours ago, theheroatl said:

I love Trae and he is a great playmaker.

His shot selection is not good. That’s it.

If he actually fixes that issue, everything will correct itself.

The logo 3 is ok but not a high percentage shot. He sometimes forces shots to try and get his shot found and that isn’t the right way to go about it.

 

Shot selection is not the issue this year.  When you actually watch his shots, he's not making his floater or contested shots at the rim. 

 

 

The missed 3s aren't the concern more than all of the shots that he's missed 16 feet and in.  That is an area he normally excels at.  But in these first 2 weeks, he's been the worst of his career in this area.  Even in his down shooting year last season, look at what he shot from the 16 feet and in ranges.

 

 

Stay aggressive.  Be decisive when you get in the paint.  And be the high level facilitator.

And of course, also shoot that 30 footer.

 

He's Trae MF Young.  He simply needs to just play his game.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

9 hours ago, theheroatl said:

I love Trae and he is a great playmaker.

His shot selection is not good. That’s it.

If he actually fixes that issue, everything will correct itself.

The logo 3 is ok but not a high percentage shot. He sometimes forces shots to try and get his shot found and that isn’t the right way to go about it.

 

One of these things is not like the other.

 

 

Shoot the Trae

[Final_quest]

16 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Honestly? Probably.  But it's not a fair comparison anyways.  The way I look at it is more like, would we be 4-3 without Trae but with +$40M in rotation pieces?  And the answer to that question -- so far this year -- is definitely yes.  Probably need far less than $40M to replace his impact so far this year.  Again, not here to make a summary ruling 7 games into the season, but that is where we're at today.  No reason to sugar coat it

Last season when Murray was slumping people were saying we got fleeced in a trade.  It's not really productive to talk about swapping salary for a time period when a player is playing so far below their norm.  

Fantasy basketball and video games has warped people's perspectives on reality.  There is only swapping player x for player y in simulations.  Without Trae Young we don't have him or Murray.  We're paying someone like FVV or Jerami Grant and hoping to find someone like Trae in the lottery.  

[AHF]

9 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

One of these things is not like the other.

 

 

Shoot the Trae

Where do you see these numbers?  I couldn’t find them when I looked on nba.com shooting stats by distance.

[macdaddy]

17 hours ago, AHF said:

Sounds like Jeff agrees he has been value add but instead is saying that he isn't living up to his contract so far.

Well no doubt about that but also different than saying we are winning in spite of him in my opinion.  But we dont' need to beat it into the ground.  anymore.  lol.

[bleachkit]

Trae's slump could be a blessing in disguise. Perhaps it will lead to him taking less shots and finally embracing a more egalitarian offense. We are already seeing signs of that. 

[macdaddy]

11 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Trae's slump could be a blessing in disguise. Perhaps it will lead to him taking less shots and finally embracing a more egalitarian offense. We are already seeing signs of that. 

He'll find his comfort zone in this offense.  It's harder for him because he's the guy with the ball in his hands.  We don't notice the off ball guys screwing up in the new scheme as much even though they may be. 

[JayBirdHawk]

13 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Trae's slump could be a blessing in disguise. Perhaps it will lead to him taking less shots and finally embracing a more egalitarian offense. We are already seeing signs of that. 

Trae's minutes (34.8 vs 35.6) are up a tick from last season, but his usage is down (32.6% vs 29.3%) and he is taking less shots (19.4 vs 17.0). Baby steps!

[AHF]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

Well no doubt about that but also different than saying we are winning in spite of him in my opinion.  But we dont' need to beat it into the ground.  anymore.  lol.

I think under the way he is viewing it, any player who isn't living up to his contract is hurting his team because you could theoretically construct a different roster by substituting one or more players into that salary slot.  I agree that roster construction isn't that simple (like your point that DJ doesn't necessarily want to be in Atlanta if he doesn't get to play with Trae and the fact that other theoretical substitutable players may never have been available to the Hawks), but at least I can make sense of his comments if I approach it through that lens.

[Diesel]

It's time to get an Aussie on the team...

Let's trade Trae for Dyson Daniels. 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

It's time to get an Aussie on the team...

what? We already have one in Patty Mills

[Diesel]

On 11/8/2023 at 10:37 AM, JeffS17 said:

Yes, we quite literally are.  He has the worst net rating of anyone in the rotation (see below).  Cherry picking stats doesn't change that.  I think we could very easily be 6-1 if he was playing up to his contract.  As @thecampster mentioned in another thread, I also judge guys play by their contract, and it's not a good thing when the guy getting paid 2-3x more than the rest of the players has the worst on-court results.

Mathematically though... That type of judgement doesn't make sense.   Do you honestly think that Jalen Brown is going to live up to his contract??  Anybody who has a max or a supermax contract is going to have a hard time living up to it.   Period.  Mathematically, it will be the Pat Ewing effect...Supposedly, Ewing, after having seen what Koncak made, made it a clause in his contract that he had to be one of the top 3 paid centers throughout the life of his deal.  It puts a team in a bad place because better players will come. 

For Trae, more max contracts will come and higher contracts will come and his deal will level out. 

However, to hear you talk, you would think he's playing like Tobias Harris or Allan Houston. 

You don't have many PG who lead the league in Assists and one of the top scorers.   Like him or not, Trae's play has put him in Elite air.   Now, we want to reduce it to advance stats and stuff.   It's unfortunate that for some people, Trae will never be the reason we win.  Even if he is.