Official Game Thread: Hornets "at" Hawks

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I don't think he is either.   I truly believe that what we saw last game, is him trying to play the way the coach / coaches want him to play.  

Those coaches need to understand though, that Trae is the offensive scoring engine of the team.  And if they're simply asking him to distribute the ball to to others, while not asking others to get the ball to him in the right spots to score, we're still have times in which we will struggle on offense.

I don't think it's as simple as 'just distribute the ball'  it's a balancing act. I said before he has the heaviest load to carry. He has to manage his inate ability to score vs running the team so everyone is involved.  On his teammates putting him in right spots to score, yes I agree - but Trae also has to do more to get himself open to get those looks. We talked all offseason about having Trae offball more - still waiting for it.

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I don't think it's as simple as 'just distribute the ball'  it's a balancing act. I said before he has the heaviest load to carry. He has to manage his inate ability to score vs running the team so everyone is involved.  On his teammates putting him in right spots to score, yes I agree - but Trae also has to do more to get himself open to get those looks. We talked all offseason about having Trae offball more - still waiting for it.

This is why we ultimately got Bogi but Trae's defense with Bogi has been disgraceful and we aren't getting the production on offense we need that differs from when Cam is on the court. 

[gHost83]

Gimme Bagley and an unprotected first for Collins.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, gHost83 said:

Gimme Bagley and an unprotected first for Collins.

Bagley is not a fit here. Bagley needs to be in Charlotte with Melo Ball. 

[gHost83]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Bagley is not a fit here. Bagley needs to be in Charlotte with Melo Ball. 

Just a suggestion off the top of my head bro. Not much compensation we can get for Collins...

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I don't think it's as simple as 'just distribute the ball'  it's a balancing act. I said before he has the heaviest load to carry. He has to manage his inate ability to score vs running the team so everyone is involved.  On his teammates putting him in right spots to score, yes I agree - but Trae also has to do more to get himself open to get those looks. We talked all offseason about having Trae offball more - still waiting for it.

Until we get this, we won't be close to our ceiling on offense

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

Until we get this, we won't be close to our ceiling on offense

Trae also has to want to play offball and LP has to implement those sets. This has to be a total team effort.

[REHawksFan]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

Every game a baseball player goes 2-5 is a very good game.  Like you said, repeat it  for a year and you accomplish something no one has done in generations.

.400 is definitely not inefficient for batting average.  It is at a minimum good.

We don’t disagree that neither game is exceptional on a single sample size.  My point is that if you view every 2-5 as a failure or every 1.267 point per shot night as a failure then your standard is unreasonable, imo.   Most of Klay Thompson’s career is below that level.  He has been effective or good or most of his games not a minority of them.  (1.221 for his career)

Now wait a minute. I never once said 19 pts on 15 shots was a failure. I started out saying it was inefficient but then corrected myself and acknowledged that was an overstatement. 

But you brought up Jordan and KG in an effort to show that his efficiency was nearly on a historic level. Thats why I made the single game argument. 

A game at 1.267 pps is simple not a great accomplishment when it happens hundreds of times every NBA season.

I think we actually agree.

[JayBirdHawk]

On 1/6/2021 at 8:49 PM, bleachkit said:

I'm watching half time shoot around, Trae isn't getting shots up with the rest of the team.

 

On 1/6/2021 at 8:18 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

We're just swinging the ball around the perimter with Trae standing at the top. Move your ass.

Said during the game.  We could all see something wasn't right.

[bleachkit]

11 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Said during the game.  We could all see something wasn't right.

You were right. I thought it was just a bad game.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I'm starting to see some cracks within the walls surrounding the LP apologist.  I might be able to criticize him now with less fear of a personal attack on me. Trae's wall is becoming unstable too. I call this progress!  Careful Schlenk...you're next if the Hawks lose Saturday night.

 

We have to fix this wall, before it cracks apart

 

[BrazilianHawk]

I guess Trae is gonna be a problem long term. It looks like he's already becoming a diva. I hope that's not the case.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Now wait a minute. I never once said 19 pts on 15 shots was a failure. I started out saying it was inefficient but then corrected myself and acknowledged that was an overstatement. 

But you brought up Jordan and KG in an effort to show that his efficiency was nearly on a historic level. Thats why I made the single game argument. 

A game at 1.267 pps is simple not a great accomplishment when it happens hundreds of times every NBA season.

I think we actually agree.

We must have crossed wires.  I brought up historic greats like MJ and KG not to suggest that Kevin's game was something historic but to show that we should be pretty thrilled if any player can show that level of scoring efficiency on a consistent basis.  If we are thrilled if the can do it consistently, we should tip the cap in acknowledgement of an excellent game every game that someone does that.  Going 2 for 5 should be applauded for every baseball player.  It isn't close to going 5 for 5 with 3 home runs which can be celebrated as a night to remember or something truly out there but it is the level of production that equates to an average night for an all-time great.  And producing like an average night for an all-time great is good stuff for a young rotation player like Huerter.

And @bleachkit, I don't disagree with you that a theoretical "next coach" should be preaching a lot of the same things to Trae that LP is now.  I am saying that if LP's message isn't getting through it is easier to replace the messager than to replace Trae.  I truly think Trae is a special player that we need to get on the right page.  And that hasn't been a big concern for his career to date but is looking like it might be an emerging one right now.

[gurpilo]

Cita

hace 38 minutos, AHF dijo:

We must have crossed wires.  I brought up historic greats like MJ and KG not to suggest that Kevin's game was something historic but to show that we should be pretty thrilled if any player can show that level of scoring efficiency on a consistent basis.  If we are thrilled if the can do it consistently, we should tip the cap in acknowledgement of an excellent game every game that someone does that.  Going 2 for 5 should be applauded for every baseball player.  It isn't close to going 5 for 5 with 3 home runs which can be celebrated as a night to remember or something truly out there but it is the level of production that equates to an average night for an all-time great.  And producing like an average night for an all-time great is good stuff for a young rotation player like Huerter.

And @bleachkit, I don't disagree with you that a theoretical "next coach" should be preaching a lot of the same things to Trae that LP is now.  I am saying that if LP's message isn't getting through it is easier to replace the messager than to replace Trae.  I truly think Trae is a special player that we need to get on the right page.  And that hasn't been a big concern for his career to date but is looking like it might be an emerging one right now.

 

Of course is a concern, he is really a special scorer and also a great passer, he is really bad on defense but the offense overcomes the defensive deficit. But he needs to learn how to play winning basketball, how to make the best choice, how to involve the others, make the others better, how to stop taking stupid shots. Any player would be upset if you run the court on a possession and see your PG taking a 30 ft shot without sharing the ball with any player and you need to run down fast because he misses it. Is not he does it from game to game, he does it 3-5 times a game. That is stupid basketball, I know is not popular to say that but that does not mean is not true.

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

Of course is a concern, he is really a special scorer and also a great passer, he is really bad on defense but the offense overcomes the defensive deficit. But he needs to learn how to play winning basketball, how to make the best choice, how to involve the others, make the others better, how to stop taking stupid shots. Any player would be upset if you run the court on a possession and see your PG taking a 30 ft shot without sharing the ball with any player and you need to run down fast because he misses it. Is not he does it from game to game, he does it 3-5 times a game. That is stupid basketball, I know is not popular to say that but that does not mean is not true.

I was very unhappy with LP when he drew that 30 foot arc on the floor to encourage those shots.  Trae has hit them at a better rate than I ever could have predicted which makes me less angry when I see them but I'm not a fan, especially early in the shot clock.

[benhillboy]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Trae also has to want to play offball and LP has to implement those sets. This has to be a total team effort.

It’s unfortunate when Trae shoots corner threes so well (.488 career) yet takes them so rarely (a whopping 3% of his career attempts).  
 

I’d never have any delusions of him fighting through bigger guard ball denials or converting back door layups but the least he and the staff could do is get his corner 3 rate up much higher through set design; when healthy we have no shortage of secondary playmakers.  Pop used to draw up that hammer play and boost the three point percentages of all his players not named Tim Duncan.  Trae’s defensive rating is trending higher than his career average due to actually trying so I’m good with baby steps in his floor approach.

Edited January 8, 2021 by benhillboy

[JayBirdHawk]

I think sometimes it looks like he's in between throwing a lob or passing to Capela or Collins - the timing is still off but it's only 8 games in.

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

This was a nice pass.

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Don't worry Trae.   I got your back.

Until your teammates CONSISTENTLY step up and make shots, and make your life easier in the process, you have no choice to have the green light to shoot that ball.

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Don't worry Trae.   I got your back.

Until your teammates CONSISTENTLY step up and make shots, and make your life easier in the process, you have no choice to have the green light to shoot that ball.

 

 

Trae has always and will always have a green light to shoot - he just has to be judicious with them.