Official Game Thread: Pacers at Hawks

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, benhillboy said:

The Hawks assists have gone up only 4% from last season after adding a lob finisher who never isolates in Capela.  The Hornets’ assists have gone up 16% after adding a heavy iso player in Haywood.  

Trae is assisted on 15% of his twos and 28% of his threes.  Melo? 37% and 69.  Who do you guys think their teammates like playing with/ for more?  This super-small nonexistent off ball PG business is probably the antithesis of what you should be doing.  The memo to the league is out about how easy and devastating a ball denial to Trae is.  Homeboy was flat out afraid to even suit up versus the Jazz a second time lol.  The fact that he said they don’t really have any counters in the postgame presser speaks volumes about him and LP.

Trae is going to make it hard to hire the best coaches for us. He has a ways to go before he's in the same tier with Allen Iverson. I don't care what the numbers say, AI in his time knew how to win games and he wasn't trash when teams schemed him off of the ball. He also was freakish attacking the paint for his size while doing a lot of little things Trae refuses to do. Trae plays like he's Jordan but doesn't do the free safety things that MJ or Westbrook does. 

Trae is starting to be a guy who I just don't know about. He's the modern Stephon Marbury, I can't be convinced otherwise. There is a reason the causal fan is falling out of love with him and its not just due to baiting for fouls.

@AHF, don't come in here and give me play by play why he's not Stephon or he's close to AI because he's not. Sorry, I just don't see it.

[Atlantaholic]

He's closer to AI than Steph, but still not on that level. We need to see what Trae can do on a team with a real coach. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

26 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

The Hawks should be able to beat the Knicks, Cavs, Thunder, Heat and get 1 of 3 against the Celtics. That means a loss to the Nuggets and 2 losses to the Celtics. 5 and 3 over their next 8. 4 and 4 is feasible. But they need to get it going.

If they go 2 and 6 to finish off February at 13 and 21 overall, I predict Pierce is gone.

 

Yeah right.

The Knicks play hard as hell.  It definitely helps that Mitchell Robinson is hurt, but the Knicks play tough.

The Cavs have been playing nothing but top level teams lately, and probably can't wait to play a "weak" team like us.  They see us a win to get them back on track.

And the Thunder tend to battle everybody to the death. SGA and Dort ( who will probably be guarding Trae ), will pose a huge problem for our backcourt.

[bleachkit]

18 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trae is going to make it hard to hire the best coaches for us. He has a ways to go before he's in the same tier with Allen Iverson. I don't care what the numbers say, AI in his time knew how to win games and he wasn't trash when teams schemed him off of the ball. He also was freakish attacking the paint for his size while doing a lot of little things Trae refuses to do. Trae plays like he's Jordan but doesn't do the free safety things that MJ or Westbrook does. 

Trae is starting to be a guy who I just don't know about. He's the modern Stephon Marbury, I can't be convinced otherwise. There is a reason the causal fan is falling out of love with him and its not just due to baiting for fouls.

@AHF, don't come in here and give me play by play why he's not Stephon or he's close to AI because he's not. Sorry, I just don't see it.

Tank for Suggs? 

[bleachkit]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Yeah right.

The Knicks play hard as hell.  It definitely helps that Mitchell Robinson is hurt, but the Knicks play tough.

The Cavs have been playing nothing but top level teams lately, and probably can't wait to play a "weak" team like us.  They see us a win to get them back on track.

And the Thunder tend to battle everybody to the death. SGA and Dort ( who will probably be guarding Trae ), will pose a huge problem for our backcourt.

It's totally possible we could 1-9 or 2-8 over these next 10 games. I just dont see any easy W's on our schedule.

[NBASupes]

13 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Tank for Suggs? 

I think Suggs is two years away because he's more of a two way Jason Kidd type but with better shooting. His ceiling is higher than Trae but his floor while higher as a prospect is lower if he hits compared to Trae when he hit. All five of the top 5 guys are better prospects than anyone on this team when they were prospects. 

I love JC if I am not paying him if he can't get us to the playoffs for more than 100 million. It don't make sense.

Edited February 14, 2021 by NBASupes

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, AUhawksfan said:

Pierce’s statement about missing shot pretty much epitomizes where his head is at and it’s purely offensive.  We have become such an offensive league that I think the tilt as a league is overemphasizing it. You need a few offensive weapons but not a lineup full of them at the expense of defense. We have plenty of guys that can put the ball in the bucket but is your lineup creating offense off of opportunities or are you just banking on the fact that they’ll make everything. 
 

All the good coaches like Pop, Carlisle, etc. always take the blame as a coaching staff first and foremost even if it’s not on them. Especially with a young team.  “We as a staff have to do better.”  When have you heard that here? That’s how you get them to fight for you. It’s no wonder there is no accountability and the players are lacking some needed guidance from a coach that isn’t trying anything new. I don’t think the players hate Pierce but they also aren’t speaking glowingly about him or sticking up for him either. They don’t have a solid game plan from the top in which they support and believe in. 

 

Especially when you have a guy who is one of the best scorers in the league, and 2 guys who gobble up rebounds. 

If you have a shooting specialist in the game, it's probably ideal to have people who can also get you stops.

This is why as bad as Cam is offensively at times, he MUST play.  And while his defense isn't great, he's the best we got.   Just tell him to pass the ball to other guys who may can score better than he can.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Trae is going to make it hard to hire the best coaches for us. He has a ways to go before he's in the same tier with Allen Iverson. I don't care what the numbers say, AI in his time knew how to win games and he wasn't trash when teams schemed him off of the ball. He also was freakish attacking the paint for his size while doing a lot of little things Trae refuses to do. Trae plays like he's Jordan but doesn't do the free safety things that MJ or Westbrook does. 

Trae is starting to be a guy who I just don't know about. He's the modern Stephon Marbury, I can't be convinced otherwise. There is a reason the causal fan is falling out of love with him and its not just due to baiting for fouls.

@AHF, don't come in here and give me play by play why he's not Stephon or he's close to AI because he's not. Sorry, I just don't see it.

If you truly believe Trae = Steph, then you should also be advocating for us to unload Trae as soon as possible.  I don’t buy it.

AI had his first winning season in his third year.  I’m hoping Trae does the same.  This is clearly an ugly period for the team.  I won’t sugar coat that.

[High5]

LP has to officially be on the hot seat now. Alternating blowout losses with blown 4th quarter leads must have Ressler fuming. 

That said, I think the people who believe a coaching change would magically solve our problems would be in for a rude awakening if it actually happened. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by High5

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, High5 said:

LP has to officially be on the hot seat now. Alternating blowout losses with blown 4th quarter leads must have Ressler fuming. 

That said, I think the people who believe a coaching change would magically solve our problems would be in for a rude awakening if it actually happened. 

LOL!

[NBASupes]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

If you truly believe Trae = Steph, then you should also be advocating for us to unload Trae as soon as possible.  I don’t buy it.

AI had his first winning season in his third year.  I’m hoping Trae does the same.  This is clearly an ugly period for the team.  I won’t sugar coat that.

Not personality wise. I am saying, he's extremely talented in several areas but extremely flawed in others. 

A.I. didn't need to have much talent around him to win like Vick. Trae needs so much to win. He needs two way wings. Great defenders in the paint who can move. He needs so much man. A.I. could win with Todd McCullough. He was unstoppable 1v1. He would beat teams by himself and even though his defense was nothing to write about, I feel that's where Trae hurts us the most. He reminds me of Marbury from the stance that he is suped up as a passer and scorer for his era as a PG but his lack of defense and all around game in general is obvious and that's hard to win around. Not just win in the playoffs, but in the RS. I don't see A.I. A.I. was on another level. That said, outside of Hunter, we don't have a perimeter player who's a positive right now outside of Young. We are actually worst supporting cast wise this year, compared to last year which is sad. But so much of what hurts them is our backup PG and Trae's inability to be effective off the ball and his defense in general. Trae is killing us while carrying us. It's hard to explain but I need Trae to improve. Him and Ben Simmons are in that zone that you don't want to be in as a great talent but Ben is much further along at this time. 

[High5]

We'd be 3-23 right now if Trae's supporting cast was worse this season. Don't get crazy. 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, High5 said:

We'd be 3-23 right now if Trae's supporting cast was worse this season. Don't get crazy. 

Allen Iverson went to the playoffs with this roster

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/1999.html

[High5]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Allen Iverson went to the playoffs with this roster

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/1999.html

That has absolutely no relevance to what I posted. 

[terrell]

6 hours ago, benhillboy said:

That is pretty damn mind blowing.  Hawks gonna Hawk.  
 

To Lloyd’s credit though trying to fashion a team around all the things Trae can’t and won’t do isn’t ideal IMO; I just wanted to see a significant improvement from our offensive and defensive ratings being putrid last season and with some heavy lifting by Hunter and Capela we have without Trae making any real marked improvement in any area; defense is slightly improved yet still a perpetual target of exploitation, floater’s gone from league-best to shaky.

You think theyre targeting Trae now, wait until he make the Playoffs..If he ever does..

[Buzzard]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Yeah right.

The Knicks play hard as hell.  It definitely helps that Mitchell Robinson is hurt, but the Knicks play tough.

The Cavs have been playing nothing but top level teams lately, and probably can't wait to play a "weak" team like us.  They see us a win to get them back on track.

And the Thunder tend to battle everybody to the death. SGA and Dort ( who will probably be guarding Trae ), will pose a huge problem for our backcourt.

My worry with the Knicks is LP plays to their weakness. I can see him feeding Gallinari and Hill at the 4 to match up with the Knicks who are missing Mitchell. Just like Capela was benched when Sabonis went out. He is very reactionary. Instead of forcing a obvious strength on the opponent, he lets them dictate to us and play to their strengths.

With the Cavs and Drummond he may go small to out quick them. Another strategy of his that cost us Capela's defense.

In a nutshell, the man preaches defense but prefers his small ball units in critical stretches. It has to be driving Schlenk nuts to stand by and watch as two of his big man draft picks continue to be ignored. While the big man he traded for and is paying 16 million dollars to gets benched in the 4th quarter. I know its hard for me to watch.

[terrell]

6 hours ago, benhillboy said:

The Hawks assists have gone up only 4% from last season after adding a lob finisher who never isolates in Capela.  The Hornets’ assists have gone up 16% after adding a heavy iso player in Haywood.  

Trae is assisted on 15% of his twos and 28% of his threes.  Melo? 37% and 69.  Who do you guys think their teammates like playing with/ for more?  This super-small nonexistent off ball PG business is probably the antithesis of what you should be doing.  The memo to the league is out about how easy and devastating a ball denial to Trae is.  Homeboy was flat out afraid to even suit up versus the Jazz a second time lol.  The fact that he said they don’t really have any counters in the postgame presser speaks volumes about him and LP.

Thats why Ive always said the Hawks arent winning anything with Trae Young as our "best player"..I stand by that..I see a Hornets/Kemba situation in Atlanta going forward..Hopefully Hunter takes the crown soon...

Edited February 14, 2021 by terrell

[terrell]

2 hours ago, Buzzard said:

The Hawks should be able to beat the Knicks, Cavs, Thunder, Heat and get 1 of 3 against the Celtics. That means a loss to the Nuggets and 2 losses to the Celtics. 5 and 3 over their next 8. 4 and 4 is feasible. But they need to get it going.

If they go 2 and 6 to finish off February at 13 and 21 overall, I predict Pierce is gone.

[terrell]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Trae is going to make it hard to hire the best coaches for us. He has a ways to go before he's in the same tier with Allen Iverson. I don't care what the numbers say, AI in his time knew how to win games and he wasn't trash when teams schemed him off of the ball. He also was freakish attacking the paint for his size while doing a lot of little things Trae refuses to do. Trae plays like he's Jordan but doesn't do the free safety things that MJ or Westbrook does. 

Trae is starting to be a guy who I just don't know about. He's the modern Stephon Marbury, I can't be convinced otherwise. There is a reason the causal fan is falling out of love with him and its not just due to baiting for fouls.

@AHF, don't come in here and give me play by play why he's not Stephon or he's close to AI because he's not. Sorry, I just don't see it.

Coach killer Im afraid....Hawks marketed Trae like MIke Vick.(One man highlight show)And that shit gets old real quick if you aint winning...Its just too easy to scheme him out of the game(see 2nd half Oklahoma)

Edited February 14, 2021 by terrell

[Buzzard]

4 minutes ago, terrell said:

McMillan is waiting in the wings. He was not afraid to start two towers with Turner and Sabonis. I think he is the type of coach that would prefer a more defensive rotation vs a more offensive one.

More of this:

Collins/Gallinari

Capela/Okongwu

Less of this:

Collins/Gallinari

Capela/Collins