Official Game Thread: Pacers at Hawks

[JTB]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So, scrolling thru the play by play....the game was lost at the 4:30 mark, Pacers up 109-105 after two Young TOs. Hawks call time and LP takes out Capela for Gallo. Hawks score 7 more points, Pacers score 16. 

LP went offense over defense with that substitution - Stupid, stupid, stupid. If you aren't gonna score at least put your best defender and rebounder in play who was also playing great.

And him taking out capela at the end of games or long stretches in the 4th quarter is problem number 1. He’s done this way too much and I hate not one reporter asked him why capela wasn’t in the game late .

interestingly enough Pierce made his Mark in the nba as a defensive minded coach...decision making to keep the teams best defender in games shouldn’t be questionable 

[benhillboy]

2 hours ago, JTB said:

I hate not one reporter asked him why capela wasn’t in the game late. 

He knows the media here is pretty delicate.  He’d fold like a cardboard box under our questioning lol.

[benhillboy]

6 hours ago, terrell said:

The hawks had Bud, Quinn synder, Taylor Jenkins, and Kenny Atkinson all on one staff and ended up with Lloyd pierce as a head coach...smh

That is pretty damn mind blowing.  Hawks gonna Hawk.  
 

To Lloyd’s credit though trying to fashion a team around all the things Trae can’t and won’t do isn’t ideal IMO; I just wanted to see a significant improvement from our offensive and defensive ratings being putrid last season and with some heavy lifting by Hunter and Capela we have without Trae making any real marked improvement in any area; defense is slightly improved yet still a perpetual target of exploitation, floater’s gone from league-best to shaky.

[REHawksFan]

7 hours ago, bleachkit said:

He took 9 shots, and made 3. Check the box score.

Ok. Doesn’t really change my point. Trae was 0-1 with 1 pt in the 4th. Hawks won't win squat with that level of contribution.

[REHawksFan]

3 hours ago, JTB said:

Let’s not be mad at Trae deferring because that’s what it sounds like LP wanted and Collins earlier this season so they’re getting what they asked for

I don't know if he's being told to do it or not. I just know its not acceptable. Either way I'd prefer LP be gone given the continuation of the same mistakes game after game. If this is on him just add it to the list.

[benhillboy]

The Hawks assists have gone up only 4% from last season after adding a lob finisher who never isolates in Capela.  The Hornets’ assists have gone up 16% after adding a heavy iso player in Haywood.  

Trae is assisted on 15% of his twos and 28% of his threes.  Melo? 37% and 69.  Who do you guys think their teammates like playing with/ for more?  This super-small nonexistent off ball PG business is probably the antithesis of what you should be doing.  The memo to the league is out about how easy and devastating a ball denial to Trae is.  Homeboy was flat out afraid to even suit up versus the Jazz a second time lol.  The fact that he said they don’t really have any counters in the postgame presser speaks volumes about him and LP.

Edited February 14, 2021 by benhillboy

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So, scrolling thru the play by play....the game was lost at the 4:30 mark, Pacers up 109-105 after two Young TOs. Hawks call time and LP takes out Capela for Gallo. Hawks score 7 more points, Pacers score 16. 

LP went offense over defense with that substitution - Stupid, stupid, stupid. If you aren't gonna score at least put your best defender and rebounder in play who was also playing great.

I would say that the problems started to happen in the 4th quarter when LP subbed out Brandon Goodwin for Huerter. 

Popcornmachine.net is a great resource to use, to see exactly who was on the floor when major runs happened.  Then you can go to nba.com and view the video during that time, to see what those lineups did during those critical points in the game.

http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20210213&game=INDATL

• When Goodwin went out, we were up by 7. 
• Trae comes in for Brandon.  Huerter comes in for Solomon Hill.
•  As soon as the Young - Huerter - Reddish - Gallo - Collins lineup come in the game, they immediately gave up 5 net points.
• Capela comes back in, and the lineup of Young - Huerter - Reddish - Collins - Capela gives up another 6 net points.   Pacers are now up by 4.

In these situations, LP almost always opts to put in lineups that will get him back in the game through shooting.  Problem is, if those lineups don't make shots, they're not going to stop anybody on the other end.  

 

When Indiana started their run, they had basically gone super small in the game, with TJ McConnell and Aaron Holiday both being quick but super small guards ( both are under 6-2 ) along with the 6-5 Malcolm Brogdon.  Doug McDermott, who is 6-7, was playing the 4.  And Turner was at the 5.  That lineup was quick enough to fly all over the floor and really push the ball down the court after every Hawks miss or turnover.  And all 5 guys can shoot the 3, if need be.

It's disappointing that LP's response to the lead being gone, was to reinsert Gallinari back into the game, simply because he had been scoring the basketball most of the game.  This means that the lineup that started the downturn with bad defense ( Young - Huerter - Reddish - Gallo - Collins ) is now back in the game. And the guy who is your defensive anchor, and had score the most points ( Capela ), is out.

 

If he had really been paying attention, it was Huerter who had just been attacked on 3 straight possessions, that gave up the lead.  This means the response should've been not to add more shooting, but to add more defense.   Goodwin was the sub that should've came back in.  He not only may have helped us on defense, he may have helped us on offense by giving us another quick ball handler to attack the basket, and possibly create more opportunities for our bigs.

And there was a precedent set in the 2nd quarter, that could justify the Young - Goodwin - Reddish - Collins - Capela lineup.  That lineup was mainly responsible for getting the Hawks back into the game, after being down by 10 in the 2nd quarter.

 

Indiana would go on to attack Huerter and Gallanari, who gave up a few threes toward the end, because of poor rotations.  Our response, shoot 3s with Gallo, Huerter, and Reddish.

So check it.  Capela doesn't get back into the game after the 5 minute mark.  Trae is neutralized, because TJ is all over him and Indiana is taking the ball out of his hands ( and he doesn't have a big to screen those little guys off of him ).  And Collins doesn't attempt one shot until the very end, and that was a tip shot offensive rebound off of a Trae miss.

 

LP can blame the missed wide open shots if he wants, but this team misses wide open shots all of the time.  When you pull the guy out of the game who gobbles up most of those missed 3 point shots, that's a coaching fault.  When you don't direct your bigs to set solid screens that make contact, to free up your most dynamic scorer, that's a coaching fault.  And when you don't correctly recognize who has caused you to lose the lead, and you simply put in guys to make shots ( instead of to get stops ), that's a coaching fault.

 

Collins and Capela are your most consistent players.  90% of the time, they're not the ones responsible for a loss.  If these guys aren't finishing the game with each other, that's the fault of the coach.   And there's no way that LP can be seen as a defensive coach, if he continues to toss out lineups that can't defend.

 

 

 

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

The Hawks assists have gone up only 4% from last season after adding a lob finisher who never isolates in Capela.  The Hornets’ assists have gone up 16% after adding a heavy iso player in Haywood.  

Trae is assisted on 15% of his twos and 28% of his threes.  Melo? 37% and 69.  Who do you guys think their teammates like playing with/ for more?

For the Hawks, we don't have a lot of movement within our offense, outside of the pick and roll action and people waiting for Trae to create for them.   Here are the beneficiaries of Trae's assists

• Collins - 61 
• Capela - 51
• Hunter - 31
• Huerter - 30
• Reddish - 17
• Hill - 10
• Gallanari - 10

But who creates assists for Trae?

• Huerter - 9
• Collins - 7
• Capela - 5
• Bogdanovic - 4
• Hunter - 2
• Reddish - 2

I don't think likability has anything to do with it.  With the amount of passes they get from Trae, they should LOVE playing with him.   But it's pretty obvious that the offense isn't geared toward others finding Trae for a good look.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

30 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Ok. Doesn’t really change my point. Trae was 0-1 with 1 pt in the 4th. Hawks won't win squat with that level of contribution.

Just for accuracy purposes, he was 0 - 3 in the 4th quarter.

The most incredible thing for me is that he didn't attempt a single 3 pointer.  I wonder how many times that has happened in his NBA career?

( checking )

Answer:  2 times

• Game vs the Knicks right before Christmas in 2018   https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201812210NYK.html
• Last night

[Eddielives]

9 hours ago, NBASupes said:

De'Andre Hunter 

 

[AUhawksfan]

33 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

For the Hawks, we don't have a lot of movement within our offense, outside of the pick and roll action and people waiting for Trae to create for them.   Here are the beneficiaries of Trae's assists

• Collins - 61 
• Capela - 51
• Hunter - 31
• Huerter - 30
• Reddish - 17
• Hill - 10
• Gallanari - 10

But who creates assists for Trae?

• Huerter - 9
• Collins - 7
• Capela - 5
• Bogdanovic - 4
• Hunter - 2
• Reddish - 2

I don't think likability has anything to do with it.  With the amount of passes they get from Trae, they should LOVE playing with him.   But it's pretty obvious that the offense isn't geared toward others finding Trae for a good look.

Yeah I find it hard to believe these guys don’t like playing with Trae.  Trae has known he needs to improve his off the ball but if the coach isn’t setting plays to give him opportunities, then it’s a moot point. 
 

I have given LP the benefit of a lot but his stubbornness with play calling and lack of making changes is starting to bug me. I feel like the Hawks are pretty easy to strategize against with having little to no depth with our playing style and that reflects on our coaching.  These 4th quarter collapses are also giving me Dan Quinn-esque PTSD. May have to officially put me on the “fire LP” bandwagon if I don’t see improvement by the rest of this month. 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

I asked this after the Utah game - what is the plan when teams have this game plan for Trae?

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

Quote

I asked Clint Capela if he believed the Pacers “felt” the Hawks on Saturday after being outscored 41-26 in the fourth quarter.

“They did. It was definitely better than (Friday). Coach definitely said it was better and definitely a step forward. It was better but not enough,” Capela said.

 

 

Quote

I asked Pierce if there was something to which he can attribute the team’s fourth-quarter struggles. Here’s what he said:

“We didn’t make any shots down the stretch. They made every shot down the stretch. I thought we had great looks. Cam (Reddish) had two good looks. (Danilo Gallinari) had a couple of good looks. Kevin (Huerter) had a couple of good looks. I think John (Collins) had one. We didn’t capitalize on some open looks in the fourth. I think they had three straight. Aaron Holiday really got going and attacked the basket. From a shot-making standpoint, we didn’t capitalize on it (Saturday).”

You didn't stop anybody either and you didn't give them a chance to.

 

Quote

Outside of the seeming lack of practice time, a key issue plaguing the Hawks is what they championed themselves to have before the season: depth.

Gallinari was given a three-year, $61 million contract ($5 million guaranteed in Year 3), and he looks slow. He has trouble getting to his spots, and he’s a liability defensively. If he’s not making 3s, he’s essentially no better than last year’s version of Jabari Parker. The Hawks do not have an adequate backup point guard. It’s clear signing Rajon Rondo for on-court purposes has been an egregious error. The Hawks’ center depth is lacking mightily, as we figured it might before the season began. First-round pick Onyeka Okongwu is not close to making a meaningful impact as he gets up to speed, and Bruno Fernando actually received playing time over the No. 6 pick Saturday night.

Capela is the only true center on the roster who can be trusted, but he hasn’t been on the floor in crunch time in some games, likely due to the Hawks not wanting to have a clear target for opposing teams to foul and because they want to have five-out lineups. Capela said he didn’t know why he’s not out on the floor in the game’s final minutes.

“I don’t know, but it doesn’t matter,” Capela said. “Every time I come in, I just try to give my best. If Gallo comes in and can help us make shots and make 3s and we win the game that way, it’s fine, too, but I definitely have confidence in myself to finish games as well. I’m just staying ready.”

Capela said he believes this team has the potential to execute better in the fourth quarters and said, “This is where our growth is going to be really interesting.” Reddish, who had his best offensive game in the past two weeks Saturday night, said he doesn’t feel like it’s one particular thing the team is doing to blow leads but that “it’s a couple of things that we just have to figure out.”

 

Quote

At some point, someone has to take accountability for what’s going on. Continually blowing leads in the fourth quarter is an indictment of the coaching staff’s inability to get this team in the right spots to win games. Players not making open shots and having defensive mental lapses are on them. The players and coaches don’t appear to be on the same page as to who’s at fault and if it is a collective issue. 

The Hawks are trending in the wrong direction, and no one seems to have answers as to why. That’s a problem.

“We just really have to find a way to win,” Young said. “It’s hard as hell to win in this league. We’re not fine with excuses with guys being out. We still have to find a way to dig in and make some shots and get some stops and find a way to win. That’s pretty much the bottom of the line.”

 

[bleachkit]

Well season is coming off the rails. We better right the ship quickly or we are sunk.

[AUhawksfan]

47 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

 

You didn't stop anybody either and you didn't give them a chance to.

 

 

 

Pierce’s statement about missing shot pretty much epitomizes where his head is at and it’s purely offensive.  We have become such an offensive league that I think the tilt as a league is overemphasizing it. You need a few offensive weapons but not a lineup full of them at the expense of defense. We have plenty of guys that can put the ball in the bucket but is your lineup creating offense off of opportunities or are you just banking on the fact that they’ll make everything. 
 

All the good coaches like Pop, Carlisle, etc. always take the blame as a coaching staff first and foremost even if it’s not on them. Especially with a young team.  “We as a staff have to do better.”  When have you heard that here? That’s how you get them to fight for you. It’s no wonder there is no accountability and the players are lacking some needed guidance from a coach that isn’t trying anything new. I don’t think the players hate Pierce but they also aren’t speaking glowingly about him or sticking up for him either. They don’t have a solid game plan from the top in which they support and believe in. 

[Buzzard]

59 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Well season is coming off the rails. We better right the ship quickly or we are sunk.

The Hawks should be able to beat the Knicks, Cavs, Thunder, Heat and get 1 of 3 against the Celtics. That means a loss to the Nuggets and 2 losses to the Celtics. 5 and 3 over their next 8. 4 and 4 is feasible. But they need to get it going.

If they go 2 and 6 to finish off February at 13 and 21 overall, I predict Pierce is gone.

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, Buzzard said:

The Hawks should be able to beat the Knicks, Cavs, Thunder, Heat and get 1 of 3 against the Celtics. That means a loss to the Nuggets and 2 losses to the Celtics. 5 and 3 over their next 8. 4 and 4 is feasible. But they need to get it going.

If they go 2 and 6 to finish off February at 13 and 21 overall, I predict Pierce is gone. I am not sure he could stand 3 and 5.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

13 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

The problem is with the game in doubt in the 4th he was a complete non factor. He deferred deferred deferred. And no one else was making anything in the 4th. 

 

12 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

The defense was trash in the 4th. Yes. But people don't seem to get that Trae facilitating and relying on others down the stretch doesn't work. The 4th is when your leaders step up. He deferred. Its an OK strategy early in the game but it doesn't hold late with the game on the line. 

If he shoots his avg and scores his avg the Hawks win even with the defense. 

Just saying....

 

 

.....and I understand the defense was also a big issue particularly with Aaron Holiday but these are WIDE ASS open shots that they are being paid for:

 

 

[bleachkit]

I highly doubt they fire him in season. In fact, I know they wont. But our chances of making the playoffs are quickly dwindling.