Official Game Thread: Hawks at Thunder

[terrell]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Hali was #5 on my big board. Don't put it as if I didn't see he was a talent but his fit is superior with Sac than Atlanta. Ya'll underestimate how hard it is to put players around Trae Young 

I know its hard to build around Trae. Ive said it numerous times..I wasnt saying you didnt like other players. I just know you loved Obi for us...

[terrell]

10 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Honestly a few people might have I just remember you me and Gramps lol. Kg sat it out, AHF loved Maledon from memory but later down the line not at the 6 pick. Lotta Deni people for sure ya.

I posted videos of Maledon and Maxey..lol. I likes those guys if we traded up for a mid 1st...

[bleachkit]

3 minutes ago, terrell said:

I know its hard to build around Trae. Ive said it numerous times..I wasnt saying you didnt like other players. I just know you loved Obi for us...

I didnt have a strong leaning for a specific player, but I didnt want a big, and didnt want to trade up for Edwards.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, benhillboy said:

Dunn (reigning All-D-er), Bogi (career .523 eFG and 2:1 assist to turn), and Dre (budding two-way glue stud): All MIA. No one coming out the draft will be able to do any of those things.  I have no doubts we’d be cemented with a 4 seed had we enjoyed good health, and this coming from a hardcore Traeter.

 

This is why I low key DON'T want LP to get fired.   I want him to be able to survive these brutal road games to at least give him a chance to coach up a full squad.   Dunn plays the type of defense that he's looking for, and could really be a game changer for this team.  And Bogi is normally a very solid offensive player from a scoring and playmaking standpoint.

I think Ressler and Schlenk understand that injuries has decimated the potential of this team, but LP's coaching decisions and rotations in close games, isn't helping things either.  To me, it's all of the close, late game losses that he has to be critiqued on.  Does this trend get better if he had better players to put out on the floor?

Does an end of game closing lineup look like this?

If we're down by 5 or more:

• PG - Trae
• G - Bogi
• F - Hunter
• PF - Gallo
• C - Collins

If the lineup looks like that, LP would have learned nothing, because you need guys who can get you stops when you losing late in games, and not necessarily guys who can make open shots.  You can run offense through 2 - 3 people in a close game, but you need all 5 guys to play team defense in a close game.  That lineup should only be on the floor when you need 3s, not down 6 with under 3 to go.

So does a lineup in which you're down by 6 toward the end of the game, look more like this?

• PG - Dunn
• G - Reddish
• G - Hunter
• F - Collins
• C - Capela

That would take tremendous balls to take your leading scorer out of the game.  But from a balance standpoint, that's probably the best defensive lineup you can put out on the floor, while also needing offense.  

These are the types of options that LP does not have the ability to play with, because the lineup isn't healthy.  Our 2nd team, if healthy, probably looks like this.

• Dunn
• Huerter
• Reddish
• Gallo
• Okongwu

Notice no Solomon Hill . . no Skylar Mays . . no Bruno Fernando . . and no Brandon Goodwin.  If healthy, they are 3rd team players.  With all of the injuries though, they have been thrust into 2nd team, even starting roles.

[bleachkit]

They wouldnt bench Trae no matter what. Probably Popovich might, but no way would we do that. We are a new school organization, meaning if you have a star endlessly kiss their butt so they wont leave you in free agency or find some reason to feel slighted and demand a trade.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Disagree. I can’t watch Trae go an inefficient 9-27 every game. He needs to distribute the ball and guys need to move instead of ball watch, oh and PERIMETER D!!!

But you're assuming that the guys that Trae is passing the ball to, can consistently make shots . . especially at critical times.  They have proven time and again that they can't.

[terrell]

31 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

But you're assuming that the guys that Trae is passing the ball to, can consistently make shots . . especially at critical times.  They have proven time and again that they can't.

And so has Trae tbh..Hes been horrible in crunch time this season..

[REHawksFan]

53 minutes ago, terrell said:

And so has Trae tbh..Hes been horrible in crunch time this season..

This is such BS. Trae was 4th in the NBA last year in clutch scoring and this year he's like 30th among players with 10 or more clutch games. He's not been elite but to say he's been horrible is just inaccurate. 

[terrell]

1 minute ago, REHawksFan said:

This is such BS. Trae was 4th in the NBA last year in clutch scoring and this year he's like 30th among players with 10 or more clutch games. He's not been elite but to say he's been horrible is just inaccurate. 

I said this season..

[REHawksFan]

7 minutes ago, terrell said:

I said this season..

And you're wrong this season. Hes top 10% in the NBA this season. He's not been elite so far but you said hes been horrible which is completely inaccurate. 

[terrell]

5 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

And you're wrong this season. Hes top 10% in the NBA this season. He's not been elite so far but you said hes been horrible which is completely inaccurate. 

Top 10% in the 4th qtr? It sure doesnt seem like it..

Edited February 28, 2021 by terrell

[TheNorthCydeRises]

46 minutes ago, terrell said:

And so has Trae tbh..Hes been horrible in crunch time this season..

 

The big difference is that Trae has to create everything for himself, instead of Trae creating for others.  He hardly ever gets wide open looks toward the end of games.  Everything he shoots is either forced, or off the dribble.  The same goes for Hunter, who has an even lower FG% in the clutch than Trae.

[REHawksFan]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

Top 10% in the 4th qtr?

According to NBA clutch stats which I believe are last 5 min with game margin at 5 pts or less:

Trae is 29th in NBA among players with 10 such games played or more (29th out of 152 is 82nd percent tile)

Trae is 40th in NBA among all players (40th out of 372 players is 89th percentile)

So I guess its most accurate to say hes in the top 10-20% of the league in clutch situations. Far from horrible as you characterize him. 

[terrell]

3 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

According to NBA clutch stats which I believe are last 5 min with game margin at 5 pts or less:

Trae is 29th in NBA among players with 10 such games played or more (29th out of 152 is 82nd percent tile)

Trae is 40th in NBA among all players (40th out of 372 players is 89th percentile)

So I guess its most accurate to say hes in the top 10-20% of the league in clutch situations. Far from horrible as you characterize him. 

We ll that says alot about the rest of the league, because Trae hasnt been good in the 4th qtr with the game on the line this season by my eyes. But ok. We've had plenty of chances to put teams away, but nope..

Edited February 28, 2021 by terrell

[REHawksFan]

3 minutes ago, terrell said:

We ll that says alot about the rest of the league, because Trae hasnt been good in the 4th qtr with the game on the line this season by my eyes. But ok. We've had plenty of chances to put teams away, but nope..

He's also 9th in the NBA in 4th qtr scoring regardless of game situation. Thats pretty dang good imo. Could he be better? Sure. 

I don't think Trae's scoring is the reason they haven't put teams away. It has bitten them a couple of times. But usually hes been solid. 

[bleachkit]

29 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

According to NBA clutch stats which I believe are last 5 min with game margin at 5 pts or less:

Trae is 29th in NBA among players with 10 such games played or more (29th out of 152 is 82nd percent tile)

Trae is 40th in NBA among all players (40th out of 372 players is 89th percentile)

So I guess its most accurate to say hes in the top 10-20% of the league in clutch situations. Far from horrible as you characterize him. 

I'm not a big fan of clutch stats, I dont think they are usually meaningful. Get the W's when the game is close, something we haven't done very well at all this year.

[Spud2nique]

9 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

The only way this team is going to put together a string of wins, is if they play defense AND Trae consistently balls out.  I still don't understand how people can watch these games, and then wonder why Trae doesn't manage the game better?  Trae Young MUST shoot the ball . . often.  Guys who are the #1 scoring option on the team sometime take ill-advised shots.  They can sometimes make those ill-advised shots.

Trae shooting the ball, trying to keep his team in a game, doesn't bother me more than the other guys missing WIDE OPEN 3 point shots.

In theory it would be ok but you’re gonna run his lil butt into the ground. By the time the playoffs roll around, if we even made it, he’d be exhausted. In 2K it works though, even then he gets fatigued. 
 

I think Trae needs to shoot 15-18 times a game not 25+ times. It’s just too much. 
 

The only guy I remember this small with this much volume was Iverson and they made the finals once but after that he was slowing down big time. 
 

Still want Trae to be a 20/15 guy vs a 26/10 guy. If we had a semblance of an offensive plan, the coach would put people in positions to succeed.

Right now, Lloyd is diminishing the trade value of almost every single player on our roster and making them look one dimensional at best. 
 

A new voice is needed.

[Peoriabird]

9 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Right now, Lloyd is diminishing the trade value of almost every single player on our roster and making them look one dimensional at best. 
 

This^^^^ but everyone else seems to think that LP's fate will be determined by whether he can get to the playoffs even if its an 8th seed resulting in a 1 and done scenario.  Very confusing.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

8 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

This^^^^ but everyone else seems to think that LP's fate will be determined by whether he can get to the playoffs even if its an 8th seed resulting in a 1 and done scenario.  Very confusing.

 

It's the same scenario that Woody was in.   In his Year 3, there were rumblings going on if the Hawks should replace him.   We were struggling mid-season ( just like we are now ), and were out of the playoff picture.   We make the trade for Bibby and the Hawks barely make the playoffs to the dismay of some in the fan base who saw it to be useless to do.  Why?  Because we were facing the 66 win juggernaut in the Boston Celtics.  So why go to the playoffs, when we were going to get swept anyway?

7 playoff games later . . . the young Hawks not only gained a ton of experience from being in an actual playoff series, it also saved Woody's job.  It also helped put a spotlight on the young talent we had in Atlanta, which gave us more credibility on the national stage.

 

I criticize LP's coaching ability, but I also know that he deserves to at least have this season play out.  If the Hawks gel enough to get into the playoffs, and make a decent showing against Brooklyn, I don't know how you can fire him after that.  Unless Schlenk really wants Nate to take over, LP will stay if he makes the playoffs and the Hawks don't embarrass themselves.

[Peoriabird]

9 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

It's the same scenario that Woody was in.   In his Year 3, there were rumblings going on if the Hawks should replace him.   We were struggling mid-season ( just like we are now ), and were out of the playoff picture.   We make the trade for Bibby and the Hawks barely make the playoffs to the dismay of some in the fan base who saw it to be useless to do.  Why?  Because we were facing the 66 win juggernaut in the Boston Celtics.  So why go to the playoffs, when we were going to get swept anyway?

7 playoff games later . . . the young Hawks not only gained a ton of experience from being in an actual playoff series, it also saved Woody's job.  It also helped put a spotlight on the young talent we had in Atlanta, which gave us more credibility on the national stage.

This is the exact scenario this franchise needs to avoid!  Hanging on to coaches that you know aren't good.  At the end of the story of that team, it turns out that Mike Woodson was not a good coach with an overall coaching record of 315-365.  Coached only 9 seasons in the NBA and was done for good.  This is a treadmill that has plagued Atlanta's sports franchises for as long as I can remember.  Our teams never seem to find that Popivichs, Pat Rileys, Phil Jacksons or Spostras of the sport world.  Atlanta seems to always find the Larry Drews or Dan Quinns or Mike Smiths and embrace them for long periods of time and wonder the teams never win championships.  I want a great coach for a change.  Is that too much to ask?