Official Game Thread: Hawks at Rockets

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, BrazilianHawk said:

I guess I'm not the only one who hates Trae's shenanigans.

Honestly, if I was a ref I'm not sure I'd call some of the fouls that put him on the line. 

Trae was getting legit fouled this game with no calls.  Also, as long as the foul baiting is getting called for Steph, Dame, Luka, and every other guard in the league, it should be getting called for Trae too.

I agree with you though that it's not fun to watch and I hope they address it this offseason.  There needs to be some judgement if the shot attempt is legitimate.  Lunging forward and shooting with your body at a 45 degree angle to the floor shouldn't be considered a shot attempt and it should be an offensive foul imo.  There are probably exceptions to that but I think that's the judgement refs should have.  It's an easy thing to call once or twice and then guards change their behavior and stop foul hunting.

 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, BrazilianHawk said:

Well, let's see him under Nate. It could be that he gets better on offense, but I'm not as confident as you are. I think we should keep things just as they are.

Cam must earn his minutes, just like Snell did. 

 

In my book, Cam is Josh Smith 2.0. 

 

He looked much better in his short stint with Nate as did Trae at that point. 

[kg01]

8 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Trae was getting legit fouled this game with no calls.  Also, as long as the foul baiting is getting called for Steph, Dame, Luka, and every other guard in the league, it should be getting called for Trae too.

I agree with you though that it's not fun to watch and I hope they address it this offseason.  There needs to be some judgement if the shot attempt is legitimate.  Lunging forward and shooting with your body at a 45 degree angle to the floor shouldn't be considered a shot attempt and it should be an offensive foul imo.  There are probably exceptions to that but I think that's the judgement refs should have.  It's an easy thing to call once or twice and then guards change their behavior and stop foul hunting.

 

Agree with your first statement, wholeheartedly.  Hate the game, not the player.  If it's a call that gets called, can't be withholding it for some just because.

That said, the refs appear to have adjusted to the foul-baiting that happened early in the season.  The non-fouls don't get called anymore so Trae gets reduced to leaping into nothing several times a game.  IOW, I don't think a change from the refs is needed in the offseason.

That being said, last night was disgraceful.  A couple times, that Tate clown just flat shoved Trae not even on a move at all.  Just non-basketball physicality and the ref just ate the whistle.  No rhyme or reason for it.  I don't like when guys get rewarded for non-basketball stuff.  Allowing Trae fouls on non-shots isn't happening anymore.  Then swallowing the whistle on non-defense like HOU was playing shouldn't be allowed either.

[JayBirdHawk]

We've seen Cam fix is offensive mechanics the 2nd half of last season, there has been a regression.  I have faith he can turn it around. He's played 84 NBA games.

[Atlantaholic]

4 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Snell is shooting absolutely lights out and it's amazing to see, but I wouldn't go so far as to suggest he deserves Cam's minutes... Snell isn't creating his own shots and when we start to play teams with locked-in defenses, he's not going to get these open looks to make, and he's not shooting contested shots (part of why his % is so high).  With that said, we absolutely need Cam on the defensive end.  He's head and shoulders above Snell and that is where we will win ball games.  You can miss a lot of shots and win if you are holding teams to <20 a quarter.

Add in the context that Cam has been playing injured and he's young/impressionable and been without a real coach, and I think we need to be a little more patient.  I'm not suggesting he has to play 35 min/game but he should absolutely be getting 20-25+

I'm not against 20-25 minutes but he has to earn them. Until he shows he can make an outside shot and stop looking like he has his head up his butt a third of the time he's out on the floor he shouldn't be getting anything more than 10th man minutes.

[thecampster]

34 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Trae was getting legit fouled this game with no calls.  Also, as long as the foul baiting is getting called for Steph, Dame, Luka, and every other guard in the league, it should be getting called for Trae too.

I agree with you though that it's not fun to watch and I hope they address it this offseason.  There needs to be some judgement if the shot attempt is legitimate.  Lunging forward and shooting with your body at a 45 degree angle to the floor shouldn't be considered a shot attempt and it should be an offensive foul imo.  There are probably exceptions to that but I think that's the judgement refs should have.  It's an easy thing to call once or twice and then guards change their behavior and stop foul hunting.

 

The last 6 minutes of the game Trae got mugged at least 3 times. He had serious beef with the blond ref and it was warranted.  I need to look into what teams can do to protest bad behavior by officials. I'll be back.

 

[thecampster]

F.        PROTEST

Protests are not permitted during the course of a game. In order to file a protest, the procedure, as set forth in the NBA constitution, is as follows: “In order to protest against or appeal from the result of a game, notice thereof must be given to the Commissioner within forty-eight (48) hours after the conclusion of said game, by e-mail or fax, stating therein the grounds for such protest. No protest may be filed in connection with any game played during the regular season after midnight of the day of the last game of the regular schedule. A protest in connection with a playoff game must be filed not later than midnight of the day of the game protested. A game may be protested only by a Governor, Alternate Governor or Head Coach. The right of protest shall inure not only to the immediately allegedly aggrieved contestants, but to any other member who can show an interest in the grounds of protest and the results that might be attained if the protest were allowed. Each e-mail or fax of protest shall be immediately confirmed by letter and no protest shall be valid unless the letter of confirmation is accompanied by a check in the sum of $10,000 payable to the Association. If the member filing the protest prevails, the $10,000 is to be refunded. If the member does not prevail, the $10,000 is to be forfeited and retained in the Association treasury.

“Upon receipt of a protest, the Commissioner shall at once notify the member operating the opposing team in the game protested and require both of said members within five (5) days to file with him such evidence as he may desire bearing upon the issue. The Commissioner shall decide the question raised within five (5) days after receipt of such evidence.”

 

Having a hard time finding the process if you think an official is misbehaving.

 

[JeffS17]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

The last 6 minutes of the game Trae got mugged at least 3 times. He had serious beef with the blond ref and it was warranted.  I need to look into what teams can do to protest bad behavior by officials. I'll be back.

 

 

39 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Trae was getting legit fouled this game with no calls.  Also, as long as the foul baiting is getting called for Steph, Dame, Luka, and every other guard in the league, it should be getting called for Trae too.

I agree with you though that it's not fun to watch and I hope they address it this offseason.  There needs to be some judgement if the shot attempt is legitimate.  Lunging forward and shooting with your body at a 45 degree angle to the floor shouldn't be considered a shot attempt and it should be an offensive foul imo.  There are probably exceptions to that but I think that's the judgement refs should have.  It's an easy thing to call once or twice and then guards change their behavior and stop foul hunting.

 

I know lol I saw as well.  I thought it was obvious my commentary was not about him actually getting fouled and moreso the foul baiting he has leaned on more this year.

[thecampster]

4 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

 

I know lol I saw as well.  I thought it was obvious my commentary was not about him actually getting fouled and moreso the foul baiting he has leaned on more this year.

No, I got your gist....all good.

 

[sturt]

To no one in particular...

Amazing how, in the space of a mere two weeks or so, we go from a widely-understood paradigm that we're a young developing team driven primarily by early 20s age talent, with hopes of becoming a contender as early as 2021-22...

...to...

...a palpable portion of the fanbase thinking and speaking from a paradigm that we're a not-so-young team with expectations of being a contender for 2020-21.

On second thought, not really "amazing," so much as "confounding."

 

The first rounders from the 2019 draft will both continue to get the minutes one would expect having only played about one season's worth of games thus far. And that's as it should be.

[BrazilianHawk]

58 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Snell is shooting absolutely lights out and it's amazing to see, but I wouldn't go so far as to suggest he deserves Cam's minutes... Snell isn't creating his own shots and when we start to play teams with locked-in defenses, he's not going to get these open looks to make, and he's not shooting contested shots (part of why his % is so high).  With that said, we absolutely need Cam on the defensive end.  He's head and shoulders above Snell and that is where we will win ball games.  You can miss a lot of shots and win if you are holding teams to <20 a quarter.

Add in the context that Cam has been playing injured and he's young/impressionable and been without a real coach, and I think we need to be a little more patient.  I'm not suggesting he has to play 35 min/game but he should absolutely be getting 20-25+

I think Cam must EARN his minutes, and in my point of view he hasn't done much to help his cause. 

It's funny you say Snell won't make many contested shots, but we don't know it. That remains to be seen. Cam can't even make the wide open ones, and to make it worse, he absolutely LOVES to shoot. You talk like Cam is the only player with defensive capabilities in the roster. That's not true at all. Hunter is a more than capable defender, and Dunn was (supposedly) offered a contract because of his D. 

So no, we don't absolutely need Cam on the defensive end, especially when we know that we will hurt us a lot in the offensive side. But sure, I'm open to test him under Nate to see if he's going to be better than any of our wings. Huerter and Snell are doing a very nice job. Hunter is obviously better than any of the other wings. Bogi is a disappointment so far, and he also should come from the bench. I just don't see not many minutes for Cam right now. We can win without having to commit to a bricklayer who supposedly plays stellar defense. He don't have "to be patient" if what we want is to make the playoffs. 

[JeffS17]

Just now, BrazilianHawk said:

I think Cam must EARN his minutes, and in my point of view he hasn't done much to help his cause. 

It's funny you say Snell won't make many contested shots, but we don't know it. That remains to be seen. Cam can't even make the wide open ones, and to make it worse, he absolutely LOVES to shoot. You talk like Cam is the only player with defensive capabilities in the roster. That's not true at all. Hunter is a more than capable defender, and Dunn was (supposedly) offered a contract because of his D. 

So no, we don't absolutely need Cam on the defensive end, especially when we know that we will hurt us a lot in the offensive side. But sure, I'm open to test him under Nate to see if he's going to be better than any of our wings. Huerter and Snell are doing a very nice job. Hunter is obviously better than any of the other wings. Bogi is a disappointment so far, and he also should come from the bench. I just don't see not many minutes for Cam right now. We can win without having to commit to a bricklayer who supposedly plays stellar defense. He don't have "to be patient" if what we want is to make the playoffs. 

Cam and Hunter on the floor simultaneously makes our defense infinitely better.  Yes, Dunn is a good defender but he's not healthy right now so I'm not really considering him.  I understand offense is easier to quantify and judge but I think people undervalue/underrate Cam's defense when claiming he doesn't deserve minutes anymore. 

[macdaddy]

I'm dying to see Snell and Hunter starting together.   

[Atlantaholic]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm dying to see Snell and Hunter starting together.   

hmm.. it will be Huerter and Hunter obvs. Heurter has done everything he's been asked to do and there's no reason to bench him atm. Snell is a nice cone, he'll be a big asset off the bench.

[AHF]

14 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

hmm.. it will be Huerter and Hunter obvs. Heurter has done everything he's been asked to do and there's no reason to bench him atm. Snell is a nice cone, he'll be a big asset off the bench.

I don't think Mac was necessarily focused on whether Snell or Huerter would start and more on wanting to see them both on the floor together.  

[thecampster]

11 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

hmm.. it will be Huerter and Hunter obvs. Heurter has done everything he's been asked to do and there's no reason to bench him atm. Snell is a nice cone, he'll be a big asset off the bench.

The problem with Snell is his D.  Huerter is a more frustrating 1v1 defender and disruptor of offensive flow. Huerter also has the ability to put the ball on the floor and create some for himself and others. Snell needs a matchup problem to create for himself.  In the end, it will be something like this (all things being good).

Trae/Dunn or Rondo

Huerter/Cam or Bogdan

Hunter/Snell

Collins/Gallo

CC/Knight or Bruno

 

About to post in ask Supes...you might wanna check that out.

 

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

LP was.

Yup. LP supporters now disappearing slowly. Funny.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Agree with your first statement, wholeheartedly.  Hate the game, not the player.  If it's a call that gets called, can't be withholding it for some just because.

That said, the refs appear to have adjusted to the foul-baiting that happened early in the season.  The non-fouls don't get called anymore so Trae gets reduced to leaping into nothing several times a game.  IOW, I don't think a change from the refs is needed in the offseason.

That being said, last night was disgraceful.  A couple times, that Tate clown just flat shoved Trae not even on a move at all.  Just non-basketball physicality and the ref just ate the whistle.  No rhyme or reason for it.  I don't like when guys get rewarded for non-basketball stuff.  Allowing Trae fouls on non-shots isn't happening anymore.  Then swallowing the whistle on non-defense like HOU was playing shouldn't be allowed either.

Nothing on LP huh? Ohhhhh okkkayyy.

[kg01]

42 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Nothing on LP huh? Ohhhhh okkkayyy.

Nope.  And nothing on Earl Watson or Dave Joerger or any other guys who aren't coaching the team I root for.

[terrell]

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

The problem with Snell is his D.  Huerter is a more frustrating 1v1 defender and disruptor of offensive flow. Huerter also has the ability to put the ball on the floor and create some for himself and others. Snell needs a matchup problem to create for himself.  In the end, it will be something like this (all things being good).

Trae/Dunn or Rondo

Huerter/Cam or Bogdan

Hunter/Snell

Collins/Gallo

CC/Knight or Bruno

 

About to post in ask Supes...you might wanna check that out.

 

Bruno? You mean OO?