Official Game Thread: Nuggets at Hawks

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He wasn't playing with Trae. You had more spacing take cover for Clint. It helped Denver didn't read the scouting report on Culver

I'm not sure I'm understanding this.  So your thinking is, it's Trae's fault Murray doesn't fit with Capela?

JJ and Culver are not better floor spacers than JC and Hunter.

The only difference is JJ, Culver and AJ are better ball handlers and passers than Hunter and JC. 

That still shouldn't have a big impact on the Murray and Clint fit on the floor.

Dejounte's struggles weren't due to  the fit with Clint.  They were due to Dejounte being in a slump. 

Also, Denver was leaving Culver wide open on the three point line.  They def got the scouting reporting.  He just was assertive getting into the paint a few times.  Denver is also not so good defensively right now.

[Diesel]

13 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Looks like Murray's fit with Capela was not a problem last night.  He even got a lob up to him. 

I was wondering if anybody else caught the lob...  He looked apprehensious  throwing it but he got it to go!!

 

[SalvorMallow]

57 minutes ago, terrell said:

Knicks are imploding.. Any JC trade with them make sense? Theyll be desperate for a change soon...

Let me hop on trade machine.. lol

We absolutely fleeced the Knicks by getting a FRP for Reddish. He looks like a  out there.

[marco102]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

I was wondering if anybody else caught the lob...  He looked apprehensious  throwing it but he got it to go!!

 

Murray is used to going downloand with the bounce pass and our bigs are used to going up high for lobs with Trae.  In time, I hope they get used to him and he gets used to them.

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

We absolutely fleeced the Knicks by getting a FRP for Reddish. He looks like a  out there.

I fully admit, I was wrong about Cam Reddish.  He has so much potential, but it will go unrealized until he accepts he is a role player. 3-d should be his role, but I'm not sure if he has any of that down consistently.

AJ Griffin is everything I thought Cam Reddish would be for us. 

[marco102]

31 minutes ago, Diesel said:

You have to determine if that is a rotational issue or a fatigue issue.   I think our coaching staff does a pretty good job of keeping a consistent rotation... So it's really hard to blame it on the coach unless there is some adjustments that are not being made.   The problem is that I watched the games.   The main problem has been that shots are just not falling.   Who do you blame?   We have guys who get wide open looks.. wide open looks that they may have hit before... and they just don't hit them.  

Last night, what was different is that when Denver made it's push and got the game to 1, DJM stepped up and started hitting shots.  IN other games, the same thing happened and he didn't hit the shots.  So again.. who do you blame?

 

The players and coaches.  

It's been noted that our teams run initial actions, but isn't very good at getting into secondary and third actions.  

That's a coaching and player problem. 

Trae and Dejounte can cover for this at times throughout the game, but it seems to really be a problem in the 4th.

[Diesel]

5 minutes ago, marco102 said:

The players and coaches.  

It's been noted that our teams run initial actions, but isn't very good at getting into secondary and third actions.  

That's a coaching and player problem. 

Trae and Dejounte can cover for this at times throughout the game, but it seems to really be a problem in the 4th.

Maybe it's just a familiarity problem.   I was trying to think about how many of our lineup players have changed.

We lost 

Kev, Gallo, Lou, Delon, and before last night Bogi...

That's 5 of 9 rotational players.   That's a lot.   And people just felt like we would just easily pick up.  It takes time. 

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Maybe it's just a familiarity problem.   I was trying to think about how many of our lineup players have changed.

We lost 

Kev, Gallo, Lou, Delon, and before last night Bogi...

That's 5 of 9 rotational players.   That's a lot.   And people just felt like we would just easily pick up.  It takes time. 

That still doesn't change my original point that it's on the coaches and players.

[NBASupes]

35 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I'm not sure I'm understanding this.  So your thinking is, it's Trae's fault Murray doesn't fit with Capela?

JJ and Culver are not better floor spacers than JC and Hunter.

The only difference is JJ, Culver and AJ are better ball handlers and passers than Hunter and JC. 

That still shouldn't have a big impact on the Murray and Clint fit on the floor.

Dejounte's struggles weren't due to  the fit with Clint.  They were due to Dejounte being in a slump. 

Also, Denver was leaving Culver wide open on the three point line.  They def got the scouting reporting.  He just was assertive getting into the paint a few times.  Denver is also not so good defensively right now.

Murray wasn't at SG, he had more spacing around him. Trae is ball dominant as is Murray. They both need spacing around them with Capela on the floor. 

[marco102]

21 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Murray wasn't at SG, he had more spacing around him. Trae is ball dominant as is Murray. They both need spacing around them with Capela on the floor. 

Here are Murray's first eleven games.  All, but one with Capela and Trae. 

He played pretty fantastic. 

What happened was the Hawks schedule got tougher and Murray started to slump as he adjusted to his new role and better competition. 

To me, it had nothing to do with his fit with Capela and Trae.

Players slump. He was getting the same shot diet.  Murray was just missing most of those shots. In specific games, yeah the spacing was an issue due to opponent's scheming, but for the most part, he was getting to his spots and missing rather Capela or Trae were on the floor or not. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by marco102

[shakes]

2 hours ago, SalvorMallow said:

We absolutely fleeced the Knicks by getting a FRP for Reddish. He looks like a  out there.

He looked like a  here as well.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[MarylandHawk]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

I appreciate you saying that.. it sounded like you were making excuses for our wins... something that T likes to do.   However, I think Denver was scrappy last night.  Especially when they got our lead down to 1.  They got guys like Bones and Brown that were putting up a very good effort... I just think we held the course.    Not once but we had to hold the course at the end of the third and the middle of the 4th.   It was a good win that shows the possibilities...especially if Griff Money keeps maturing.

 

No worries. Consistent effort and winning 50/50 ball situations is my focus this season. It is hard for any team to sustain that for 48 mins a game every night but the ones that do it the most, especially if they have superior talent, will win most of those games. 

[bleachkit]

5 hours ago, marco102 said:

I fully admit, I was wrong about Cam Reddish.  He has so much potential, but it will go unrealized until he accepts he is a role player. 3-d should be his role, but I'm not sure if he has any of that down consistently.

AJ Griffin is everything I thought Cam Reddish would be for us. 

Seriously. AJ is everything Cam isn't. Polished, under control, shot ready, instinctive. 

[MarylandHawk]

8 hours ago, StonedDogs said:

Yeah im trying learn my way. We have to start being honest though. We cant be 2k fans 

Don’t fall for it bro.  All of us can have honest opinions about what we think. That’s different than  harping  on a guys weakness every moment you get just to prove some remote notion you are right about an aspect of someones game. I think most of us are fans of the team and that we ultimately want to see the players and the franchise succeed.  

[MarylandHawk]

9 hours ago, terrell said:

Hating? 

Murray is a rhythm shooter. Trae is a shooting technician...well, he's supposed to be........ DJ's numbers go up when he's in a rhythm, but it's really hard for him to get into a rhythm when he's forced to shoot many shots off of the dribble -- in isolation situations against defensive coverage that has shut down the entire lineup. It's also hard for DJ to get into a rhythm when a good portion of his shots are standstill. Unlike Trae, DJ doesn't have the proper technique for elite standstill shooting.

DJM and the Hawks threw the Nuggets defense off-balance big time. As a result, DJ was able to get shots off in rhythm. DJ gets his energy off of team offense, especially when it's flowing.

He started the game off making sure everyone else was getting involved. He made sure that AJ got his shots. He made sure that JJ was able to bring the ball up the court and facilitate without running behind him clapping for the ball. Knocked down his three balls. Made nice finishing shots and moves down the stretch. Played good defense. Only 1 turnover. An excellent game. 

Seeing this team win last night with Jalen doing some facilitating, AJ still looking like a downright steal in the draft, Culver flashing some potential, etc. had me fired up during the game, and  made me recognize just how much I hate the Trae Centric iso ball...

Both games AJ Griffin has gone for 24 points this season happen to be games Trae Young wasn't playing. Just saying, it's too small a sample size, but with Trae out, they clearly look his way more....

I think back to that Rockets game where he basically froze AJ Griffin out after he scored like 12 straight points in the first quarter......

Trae has to allow his bros to shine. Damn the hero ball shit unless we absolutely need it in the clutch. Just my 2 cents.........

I don’t disagree with any of this except the fact that Murray doesn’t play well with Trae. Murray is  playing at an allstar level next to Trae. In the playoffs we will need more  playmakers in half court grind it out games. My view point is that Trae Young is very good at basketball. The Hawks are at their best when he is playing well. No other version of the Hawks team has more potential than when Trae plays. There will be plenty of nights where them team will win without Trae or win when does not play well however there will be more nights we win when he is doing his thing.  It is just mid boggling how some folks treat the Hawks best player. I avoid watching BSPN to come hear and bask in the glory of my team only to find ESPN like hate here. I wish I was back in Atlanta so I could have season tickets to the six man zone so I can be around my tribe. 

[Diesel]

12 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

I don’t disagree with any of this except the fact that Murray doesn’t play well with Trae. Murray is  playing at an allstar level next to Trae. In the playoffs we will need more  playmakers in half court grind it out games. My view point is that Trae Young is very good at basketball. The Hawks are at their best when he is playing well. No other version of the Hawks team has more potential than when Trae plays. There will be plenty of nights where them team will win without Trae or win when does not play well however there will be more nights we win when he is doing his thing.  It is just mid boggling how some folks treat the Hawks best player. I avoid watching BSPN to come hear and bask in the glory of my team only to find ESPN like hate here. I wish I was back in Atlanta so I could have season tickets to the six man zone so I can be around my tribe. 

It's a poor frog that doesn't praise his own pond.

You hit the nail on the head, we win more with Trae than we do without him.   Moreover in the playoffs is where we will see it pay off.  I'm just hoping to see this team GEL.   We're getting allstar play from Capela and Trae and DJM.    We're getting Rookie of the year play from AJ.   We're even getting some good contribution from AHoli.   We are learning each other.   It takes some time but we're getting there. 

 

[StonedDogs]

3 hours ago, MarylandHawk said:

Don’t fall for it bro.  All of us can have honest opinions about what we think. That’s different than  harping  on a guys weakness every moment you get just to prove some remote notion you are right about an aspect of someones game. I think most of us are fans of the team and that we ultimately want to see the players and the franchise succeed.  

Trae is your superstar bro. Supposed teams engine. The one with the national nickname. The one who only him, took you to the ECF. Talking about his weaknesses is not about proving to be right. This just comes with the territory of being the face and future of the organization. Do you see it ending with a ring or are you seeing a team that's constantly making trades and changing coaches to fit his gameplay? 

[Final_quest]

4 hours ago, StonedDogs said:

Trae is your superstar bro. Supposed teams engine. The one with the national nickname. The one who only him, took you to the ECF. Talking about his weaknesses is not about proving to be right. This just comes with the territory of being the face and future of the organization. Do you see it ending with a ring or are you seeing a team that's constantly making trades and changing coaches to fit his gameplay? 

Trae did take us to the ECF.  You can talk about Game 7 in Philly, but even in that game he had impact down the stretch.  Also, why was Seth Curry on Huerter to begin with?  We won three Game 1 playoff road games that year.  NY, Trae hits a game winner.  Philly and Milwaukee got completely blitzed by Trae in Game 1, remember 48 points vs the Bucks?

Trae led the league in points AND assists, but also with extremely high efficiency.  He is always a big net positive when assessing his on/off court stats.  I don't see any valid case for a team being better without Trae.

But can he get us a ring?  I will just say I feel more confident than at any point since the Wilkins era.  We almost got one two years ago.  With the right seasoning and group, I could see it happening.  To me the NBA has changed so significantly since the Splash Bros type of ball has proven the analytics on the value of shooting 38 3's per game.  Right now there is a lot of parity since the Warriors team declined, and even a lower tier Warriors won the title.  Parity could be here to stay with the new style of play.  

I probably wasted my time writing this because you seem set with the "Trae is a show boating ball hog" train and that is pretty much all I've seen you post.  Ask yourself how many players share so many records with Magic, Jordan, Lebron, Luka, etc.?  We lose track of how much Trae lines up with all time greats.    

One thing Trae can do that some of the other top 10-15 players in the league can not is control the tempo and flow of the game.  When he comes into a building and hits you at every angle inside, outside, floater, mid range, lobs, cross court, etc.  He can get into the "avatar state" more than most players and destroy your game plan.  That is how we got to the ECF, and we only have that potential with a guy like Trae. It won't happen trading Trae for a "team first" Dudley Do Right.  

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, StonedDogs said:

Trae is your superstar bro. Supposed teams engine. The one with the national nickname. The one who only him, took you to the ECF. Talking about his weaknesses is not about proving to be right. This just comes with the territory of being the face and future of the organization. Do you see it ending with a ring or are you seeing a team that's constantly making trades and changing coaches to fit his gameplay? 

Did anybody see us getting to the Conference Finals?  Did anybody see us winning 2 games in the conference finals?

If it were 100% predictable, nobody would watch...